The business of photography - Opinions?

[Melinda]

Over the past two weeks I have had two different friends of mine who have recently had children and are on maternity leave message or email me to ask if they can shadow me on an upcoming photoshoot because they want to make some money doing photography after their maternity leave is up (within the next few months). They said it as if it was the easiest profession to get into.

One of them bought a grey market 40D without knowing how to even take the camera off of the auto setting, she said she's going to SAIT's night courses to learn how to take brilliant photos and then she's going to start working to make money, despite anything I tried to tell her about the time and practice and all the rest that it takes. It just didn't seem like she was planning to hear me at all, so I stopped, I didn't bother.

With the other girl I took a deep breath and decided that she'd figure out on her own that it wasn't so easy and told her she could come and observe and maybe try to learn a bit, but I didn't have anything coming up in the next little while (at least nothing I'd want to be teaching someone while I'm doing it) Her response? "Oh that's okay, I don't even own a camera yet." I nearly lost it.

So this is my question to you guys. Have you experienced this from other people? Or do you yourselves think similar thoughts? That anyone can just pick up a camera, set it to auto and make money? I've been behind a camera for eight years, and only started to make a little money at around year five. It *might* have been sooner for me, but I spent a lot of time practicing and developing a style of my own before I went after the actual business. Saying "Yeah it's only photography, I'm just gonna go to the store and buy a camera, then start making money right away" is just like saying "Of course I can paint an oil painting anyone would love, I don't need to learn! And I'll sell it for thousands of dollars too!"

I just don't get it. I mean I get that decent quality cameras are the most affordable they've ever been and pretty much anyone can get one, but is that all people think is required to get into the business of photography? I'm not trying to be condesending or big headed or anything like that, but I've worked my ass off to get to the level I'm at, and I'm humble enough to know that there are MANY others better than me and SOOO much more that I have to learn. That's the greatest thing about this art, there's always a new challenge. Many others on here to make a portion or all of their living from their art would agree with me. I just genuinely want to know how easy people think it is to make money with photography?

Feel free to add your own thoughts and experiences, but please keep it civil

[RT16V]

It's a common public mentality. You must have heard this many times before when a random person sees one of your fantastic photos:

"What kind of camera did you take that with?"

All your points are valid.

[anarchy]

I've taken some photography classes in my journalism program and all I can say is that it is most certainly an art. It's not as simple as point and shoot, there are so many factors that come into play when taking a good photo.

I would imagine that it would take a lot of time, patience, practice and creativity to be even good enough to make a business out of your photography, so it's almost laughable that your friends seem to think they can just purchase a camera and wait for the money to start pouring in.

I have a lot of respect for good photographers and from what I've seen from your work, you are certainly one of them! Keep it up!

[Melinda]

Originally posted by RT16V
It's a common public mentality. You must have heard this many times before when a random person sees one of your fantastic photos:

"What kind of camera did you take that with?"

All your points are valid.

Haha you have no idea. Check out my sig lol, there's a reason it's there. I have actually gotten PM's on this forum from guys asking me what camera I use because they want to take pictures just like mine. Flattering, sure, but stupidest thing I've ever heard? You bet! It just baffles my mind!

[AccentAE86]

I totally hear ya Mel. I know many people who think the same way. But in reality, it's not easy at all. It's not quite a 'part time' thing... it takes a LOT of work, post processing, and constant marketing to keep a business afloat.


I get many email requests from people who want to be a second shooter for me. It's usually something like, "hey, I really like your work and I'd love to be a second shooter for you. I just got my first dslr and am amazed by the pictures it can take." They don't realize that this is a craft that takes much much practice and dedication. They seem flabbergasted when I say I want a second shooter who has years of experience shooting and has a great portfolio to share. Then I ask where their portfolio is, and why they didn't send a proper cover letter. To me, they are asking for a JOB, whether I pay them or not they are trying to enter my company. But they don't think of it like that. They think that having a camera means you're totally qualified to shoot. WTF? Would you email the manager of your local Earls and just say, "hey I like your food, I like eating too so I wanna be a waiter for you". Nobody would do that, but for photographers, this is so common. People don't see us in the same way as other businesses.

The gear alone that you have to build up will likely keep you in the red for at least the first few years. They don't realize that it's not as easy as "pick up a camera and collect big cheques". As a business, you gotta pax taxes, do some serious accounting, buy a ton of office supplies, always have a reasonably powerful computer to handle raw files (heck, most don't even know what the hell RAW is), etc etc etc...

I figure, let them give it a shot. Most will sink when they realize just how hard it is. It is easy to get a nice picture the odd time, but not everyone can deliver exceptional pictures EVERY SINGLE TIME no matter how you feel or what mood you're in. Post processing is another HUGE monster in itself that even many pros struggly with. When they realize that what they're producing is regular snapshots and people are NOT satisfied paying for snapshots, it could be a hard reality check.

On the other hand, there will be a few that pick it up in a flash and really run with it and make a great business out of it. These people are naturally talented and probably got an interest in it because they knew they already had the talent.

So yeah, I see exactly what you're talking about all the time, and I figure just let them go for it. Some will do well but most will sink and gain a larger appreciation for what you do.

[abyss]

Too bad the people who need to read this never will. haha

Hey Mel I've been meaning to ask... can I shadow you on your next boudoir shoot? I know that I can make a TON of money by doing photography since it's so easy if you have a good camera, and I'll try my best to not make the half naked girl nervous by constantly asking for your help to turn on my camera, which by the way I haven't bought yet. Call me!

[3g4u]

I think that this mentality came with the digital era, as any moron can go buy a decent digital slr and start shooting, they can also take 1000 shots of the same thing and pick the 1 that is best. I would suggest to anybody who thinks like this to go buy a film camera and learn that way (darkroom, mounting, burning dodging etc...) Its just way too easy to take a million pics of the same thing and call yourself a photographer.

[msommers]

Ignorance is bliss right!

Spectacular equipment is available at moderate prices these days. Consequently, to some good gear = good pictures. In all honestly, art is in the eye of the beholder but it's pretty easy to separate the good from the crap. None of my photos I'd consider selling, they all suck but hey if someone really liked one, why not? The truth will hit them hard when either they:

a) Actually look at all their photos and realize none of them are exciting, get depressed and drop it instantly.

b) Realize they have no idea what is involved in photography and decide to take on the learning curve.

c) Someone is brutally honest with them

Keep us posted on what what happens with both of them

[seer_claw]

My aunt did the same thing, she went out and bought a 20D and shot a couple of weddings without knowing how to adjust the camera off auto. I could only cringe when she told me that. As much as it would be cool to hang out and learn from you guys during a formal shoot. I'm more comfortable in times where we all get together for an informal meet and learn that way. If more people would do that I think that they might see that taking pictures is a lot different than being a photographer.

There are lots of people out there that shouldn't be allowed to do things but it happens all the time.

[962 kid]

AccentAE86 ^^ sweet sig I just unearthed my dad's old A1 and I've been fooling around with it for the last week or 2, pretty nifty little camera

As for the original question... I'm probably the most amateur photog that has posted in this section haha, and it didn't take me long to figure out that the auto setting on my camera sucks balls. Let your friend (with the camera) shadow you with her auto setting and compare pics after I can't think of a better way to get your point across haha.

Suggestion, maybe bring them along to the next beyond meet? Sure they may be ignant, but that doesn't mean we can't try to help them :p

[sputnik]

Most professional photographers require anyone who wants to assist or shadow to have a strong portfolio to begin with. I would tell both of them that they will require the same before either can join you on the job. Besides, if they are going to tag along they might as well be useful and know how to change lenses quickly and carry your gear. If (BIG IF) they are lucky they might be able to shoot some candids after the majority of the shooting is done.

If someone wants to help they should have a strong interest in photography which means they have already spent a number of years honing their hobby to a point where it is actually to the point where they might be able to do it for money. Otherwise you are wasting your time with newbie dreamers who just want to make on a Saturday what most make in a few weeks.

What we have found in the past is that there are many people who find out how much wedding photographers make and then think that they can do it too (with very little practice or experience). They take a million shots with their Rebel and then pull out 10 good ones and think that they are ready for the big leagues. This can not be further from the truth.

Perhaps you can test their eye as well. Give them a variety of shots (a couple dozen) and ask them to critique them. Ask them what is bad and good about each shot. Make them WORK for the privilege of assisting a pro on a shoot.

[ourdon]

Everybody seems to have some valid points...and I agree with them.

As to the business of photography, I can't comment. I have never run one, but I have had a business of my own and I suspect the problems are similar while the particulars would be different.

As to photography, it is an art. Inasmuch as art can be taught, photography can be taught. What can't be taught is talent.

Ron

P.S. Find brighter friends.

[Evolize]

I see and experience your points, but I am not at a professional level. (Professional for me is somebody who gets paid for what they do). It will take me a long time to get to that level, but what really really irks me is when I am doing a shoot for somebody with their vehicle or their pet or whatever the subject is, other "photogs" I know come around and start spouting off their mouth like they are the kings of photography.

One guy doesnt even know how to use the focus ring on all these lenses he spent $3K on and he tells me I don't know what I am doing meanwhile I have to tell him how to use his camera because he's too busy pretending to be a professional photographer instead of actually learning his equipment. What is hilarious too is when people say "Oh, your camera takes nice pictures".......Hello...??? It's not the quipment its the person using it you dumbfuck!

[urban.one]

Theres a lot of professions that people think are easy and that you just buy some equipment, read a manual, and then youre a pro.

If you have the time, educating these people is the best thing. Spend some time with the person showing them youre craft. Youll either give them a new appreciation for what you do and theyll understand how difficult it is and how much they have to learn. You might also spark someones interest in it and they may pursue it and develop their talent. (Or the novelty of the new camera will wear off and it will be on Ebay in a few months and they still wont appreciate what you do.)

[sliderr]

Have them prove to you they can do the job and the work. Do they understand the basics, can they do the proper processing, etc.

It's your reputation on the line so they have to be up to your standards and expectations.

[Hash_man]

I do know what you mean... There are many people who are like this, and selling cameras as a part time job I see quite a few of them too.

People coming in... "I want that camera over there"... when asked why, especially when referring to SLR's a lot respond that they know someone with it, and it takes great pictures.

Photography is very much an art and takes a good eye and talent to be very good at. I find it frustrating when people think they are really good, or can take pro like pics because they bought the most expensive camera, or one they saw take good pics.

After taking up photography as a hobby within the past year, I have gained even more respect for proffesionals now, and can only dream to be at most of their levels one day.

[Melinda]

Thank you for all the responses so far guys, I'm glad the general group of us dont think like this. Unfortuneately we tend to be the minority in this society I do agree with a "let them try and then watch them fail" kind of mentality, but it still really pisses me off at the lack of respect people in this industry get. Like our job is the easiest in the world, quickest cash grab too. Grrrr...

That's for the support and points so far, feel free to keep your input coming in!

[rc2002]

Photography isn't a natural skill that people are born with - it's a learned skill. In time any average joe can become a professional photographer if they're willing to put the effort in. Technical knowledge is widely available on the internet, in books, in courses. I don't think it would take much for someone to start making money from photography.

It's a pretty lucrative part-time business considering a day of shooting at a wedding can pay in the thousands of dollars.

[BerserkerCatSplat]

Originally posted by richardchan2002
Photography isn't a natural skill that people are born with - it's a learned skill. In time any average joe can become a professional photographer if they're willing to put the effort in. Technical knowledge is widely available on the internet, in books, in courses. I don't think it would take much for someone to start making money from photography.

It's a pretty lucrative part-time business considering a day of shooting at a wedding can pay in the thousands of dollars.

I somewhat disagree, some people have a natural raw talent for photography that needs only a little refinement to become excellence. I find that some of the best pictures come from the natural talents that have never read a how-to book or scoured a website looking for tips - they just have a natural eye for the shot.

Now that being said, you are more or less correct, pretty much anyone can become a professional photographer if they put out the effort. However, one does not have to be a good photographer to become a professional. I've seen countless stale, lifeless photos from professionals, and stunning masterpieces from rank amateurs.

[D'z Nutz]

Ugh, this frustrates me to no end and I see it all the time. Like you guys say, photographic equipment is cheap now and can produce great picture quality out the box. Unfortunately people seem to equate great picture quality to great picture, and to another extent expensive equipment to great skills. Forget that you're cropping heads off. Forget that phantom body parts are appearing at all edges of photos. Forget that your lighting and exposure is way off. Your camera is 10 megapixels!!! That's 2 more than the one you had last year, but enough to hold you over until the new 12 megapixel model comes out in 6 months!

I've been shooting for a few years now and only now is some of my work and efforts starting to get some recognition. I'm still *years* away from where I want to be, if I'll even get there. But it's always amusing (and annoying) when some clown walks into the camera store, slams down thousands of dollars onto the counter, and buys the latest and greatest camera and the most expensive lens his or her buddies recommends -- regardless of whether or not it suits the photog's needs or shooting style -- and they become instant pro without even knowing the simple basics of photography.

I also really hate this "I'll shoot a lot of pictures and pick the best one" attitude too that many seem to follow. Yes, memory is cheap, but it's not a real excuse to be sloppy. When you shoot like that, you're not really learning anything or putting your skills to use (or maybe you are ) -- you're playing your averages. Myself and a couple beyonders had a met with some fellow photogs one time and one of the guys there said he always brings something ridiculous like 20-30GBs worth of memory to wedding gigs and usually comes close to filling them all up. That's insane! A friend of mine also knows a photog who has done a few weddings and he was so impressed that he took like over 1200 photos at his last shoot. Fair enough. But when I was doing his wedding formals, this other photog was there and I noticed he took 3 or 4 shots of the same thing all the time, everytime. So he didn't take 1200 photos. He took 300-400 photos 3 or 4 times... and only had a few half decent, overly post processed shots to show for it. Not getting any good photos? Maybe you need more frames per second

But what I really loathe is the "fix it in Photoshop" mentality. I've come across a lot of people who seem to think knowing how to operate a camera is second only to having Photoshop skills. People ask me all the time "I want to learn photography, but I'm not good at Photoshop. Is there a good Photoshop book you can recommend?" or "How much Photoshop do I need to know to take good photos?" Oh, and there's always the clown at the back of group shots "Will you hurry up? Just fix it in Photoshop!" Hows about I crop your head out of the shot and see how good my Photoshop skills are?

With regards to shadowing experienced photographers during shoots, in no way am I against it. However, only if the shadower a) has a moderate level of experience, and b) is dead serious and passionate about it and not using photography as a get rich scheme. Anyone who is serious about it will, or most certainly should, have a portfolio put together. And not just a website or account on Flickr/Photobucket/etc..., but a real hard copy portfolio that can be presented to demonstrate an understanding of photography. I've also read that some experienced photographers actually charge people to shadow them if they want, which makes perfect sense to me. The photographer would be held accountable for any screw-ups anyways and if anyone is willing to pay money to take a course to learn how to operate a camera, why wouldn't they be willing to pay money to learn how to shoot an event?