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Thread: Ripping a CD you own to your hard drive makes you a criminal...

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    Default Ripping a CD you own to your hard drive makes you a criminal...

    In legal documents in its federal case against Jeffrey Howell, a Scottsdale, Ariz., man who kept a collection of about 2,000 music recordings on his personal computer, the industry maintains that it is illegal for someone who has legally purchased a CD to transfer that music into his computer.
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...l?hpid=topnews

    This is getting ridiculous. The record companies have failed to realize one big thing: iTunes is its derivatives will replace the old guard and their CD-sales sales platform. You can't fight against online music sharing and expect to win in the long run.

    We're getting near the end of the music CD lifecycle. I haven't looked up the numbers, but who's willing to bet against the fact that MP3 players are outselling discmans? And who's going to buy CDs when everyone owns an iPod?

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    they are outselling for sure, as far as the end of the cd age I think that might be from the mass consumer market but it is sad since an mp3 unless encoded lossless just does not have the quality that is on a cd.

    then again most music is listened to while in transit, excersizing, driving, etc so quality does not have a very good argument over the masses.
    Originally posted by rage2
    Ya, I built some crazy ass shit with Lego as a kid. I had a thing for AMC Eagle AWD's as a kid for some bizarre reason, so I spent a lot of time going to the library and reading up on how AWD works in that car. I even hitchhiked to the library once cuz my parents were too lazy to drive me haha. Ya, I'm a nerd.

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    That should be the music industry's edge: They will sell lossless MP3s (at like what... 6-7MBs per 3 minute song) and not permit any other online vendor to sell high fidelity versions (maybe limit iTunes to 128kbps versions while they can do 320kbps).

    I don't see how they can be shocked at the slumping CD sales though.... fewer people are buying CD players, so what do they expect? For CD sales to go up? For fuck sakes...

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    it always used to be if you owned the cd making a backup of it is ok as long as not used for public play ect...

    that is really stupid. and they are going to slowly cut thier own throats if they keep that up.
    but there ahs to be some reason they were checking his computer to find that,

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    I read about this on drudge this morning. It really boils my blood. Who have even BOUGHT a CD in last few years? I'm with all the poeple calling "bullshit" on making personal copies. Whether it's legal or not, as determined by legistlature that is 15 years out of date, if you purchase media in ANY format, you should own personal usage rights to that media, period. Who the hell has even LISTENED to a cd in like 5 years other than your grandparents!

    I must admit, in college, i was a prolific downloader. I stole a lot of content. I've since changed my ways! What i do now, is IF i download an album AND it's available on VINYL, i buy it. I don't even have a record player. For some reason the juxtapostion of listening to it digitaly and owning (or what i THOUGHT i was owning) the rights to listen to it, via a nostalgic format really appeals to me.

    If however, the band does not release a vinyl version of the album, then fuck them if they don't want my money. But i will try to catch a show if they come to calgary.

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    That's one other bonus of living in Canada. As of now, its still legal to download/share music and movies in Canada. As per the copyright association of Canada:


    Courts rule against music industry on copyright law:

    In a unanimous 9-0 decision on June 30, 2004, the Supreme Count of Canada ruled that internet service providers are not responsible for paying royalties on music downloaded by users.

    ...The ruling stipulates that:

    Downloading a song for personal use is not an infringement.
    Placing a song in an on-line music-sharing directory such as Kazaa is not considered distribution.
    There was a recent article in the Calgary Sun about this.

    So for now...the Canadian Supreme Court deems it legal to d/l music and movies.

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    Originally posted by Crymson
    I read about this on drudge this morning. It really boils my blood. Who have even BOUGHT a CD in last few years? I'm with all the poeple calling "bullshit" on making personal copies. Whether it's legal or not, as determined by legistlature that is 15 years out of date, if you purchase media in ANY format, you should own personal usage rights to that media, period. Who the hell has even LISTENED to a cd in like 5 years other than your grandparents!

    I must admit, in college, i was a prolific downloader. I stole a lot of content. I've since changed my ways! What i do now, is IF i download an album AND it's available on VINYL, i buy it. I don't even have a record player. For some reason the juxtapostion of listening to it digitaly and owning (or what i THOUGHT i was owning) the rights to listen to it, via a nostalgic format really appeals to me.

    If however, the band does not release a vinyl version of the album, then fuck them if they don't want my money. But i will try to catch a show if they come to calgary.
    I constantly buy cds because I am not cheap. I dont mind throwing down $20 if the cd is good.

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    I buy CD`s for quality. I do however usually download an album to se eif it is worth the release price...

    good example of this is the new wu-tang album... not worth the money in my mind, then again i dont really listen to it since it really isnt that good.

    recently bought a classified album and it is great
    Originally posted by rage2
    Ya, I built some crazy ass shit with Lego as a kid. I had a thing for AMC Eagle AWD's as a kid for some bizarre reason, so I spent a lot of time going to the library and reading up on how AWD works in that car. I even hitchhiked to the library once cuz my parents were too lazy to drive me haha. Ya, I'm a nerd.

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    Originally posted by Maddog55
    That's one other bonus of living in Canada. As of now, its still legal to download/share music and movies in Canada. As per the copyright association of Canada:




    There was a recent article in the Calgary Sun about this.

    So for now...the Canadian Supreme Court deems it legal to d/l music and movies.
    I didn't see anything mentioned about movies.

    "We need a vaccination for stupidity, with booster shots against an unwillingness to learn."

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    It's too late for the industry.

    They can waste as much money as they want trying to teach people a lesson by suing the odd one. Nobody is really paying attention anyways, and unfortunately for them, they will get neither enough money to justify it from the outcome nor will they affect the course of digital media distribution.

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    ^^^they have been trying to stop piracy since the early 80s, they will never succeed...so i say give it up. They brought out blue ray saying "new encryption, cant break this one. blah blah blah", well that was cracked in two weeks......NEXT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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    Originally posted by codetrap


    I didn't see anything mentioned about movies.
    movies and music are the exact same thing...copyrighted media. whether you rip and share a CD or rip and share a DVD...its the exact same thing.

    Thats not to be confused with making a black market recording of a movie..that's illegal...but that has nothing to do with P2P file sharing..thats just plane copyright infringement.

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    For the buying CDs part of this argument,
    I haven't bought a CD in ~10 years, I've been given a few as presents but that's about it. If I hear about new music I'll download an album, and if I like it I'll find the band's web page and donate $10 or $15 to the band. I know that doesn't pay the record labels and that's kind of the point


    I always thought it WAS legal to make a single copy for backup and personal use purposes, but apparently that copy can't be on your computer now?... shit, how far are they going to take this!
    Originally posted by Vagabond142
    Is the best game. Ever. In everness. It is more awesome than a robot caveman punching God in the dick. It is that awesome

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    I buy CDs weekly. I do look forward to the day that I can buy stuff online in a lossless format though. I think it's kind of a dick move to enjoy someone's work and not compensate them for it.

    here is a good perspective on things from maynard of tool that he recently sent around:

    dearest supporters, street teamers, and mailing listers.
    thank you for signing up to help.
    first and foremost, if you don't like what you're
    hearing from this project so far,
    don't lie about it out of respect.
    if you're compelled to support it in spite of what
    you've heard and not appreciated,
    then support it because you believe in the precedent of
    independence i'm attempting to set.
    promise me that much and then we can proceed from here.
    this project for me is one part fun,
    one part learning experience.
    trying to go it alone, without a label to convolute
    my efforts is very terrifying, chaotic,
    and challenging. but all in a very positive way.
    many many dark corners and unknowns. it's liberating but
    still pretty damn scary. this is a very very expensive education.
    i could very easily lose my ass on this whole thing.
    but it's sort of ok. i can afford a new ass.
    anyway...
    lot's of controversy flying about regarding downloading.
    time to throw my 2 cents in. downloading wont effect me TOO much.
    but it will affect those bands right on the edge. bands who
    could use the hundred bucks to make it to the next town to
    play a show (gas and food aren't free. go figure) .
    or could use some cash to record a new record.
    ( imagine that. it actually takes money to record a record.)
    i can afford to pay for the recording of my record.
    i'm one of the lucky ones. (thanks to nirvana and the
    label feeding frenzy, i won the early 90's grunge lottery.)
    but those days are history. in order for young bands
    to survive nowadays, they need to get paid for their efforts.
    touring costs money. recording costs money.
    unless you're ok with bands recording their songs on
    their Palm Treo. personally i went the extra mile and
    tried to incorporate that ancient and illusive medium
    known as "analog tape." because, and i can hear the
    yawns welling up as i type... because it sounds better.
    the machines are expensive and a pain in the ass to
    maintain but they're worth it. that is unless people
    are just gonna steal your efforts.
    then it's a big fat FUCK NO, IT"S NOT WORTH IT.
    so don't be douche bags. support the process.
    devils advocate...
    it feels like the digital landscape has widened peoples
    appreciation of new music. it's placed alternative forms of
    music in front of those who may not have been exposed otherwise.
    it feels like people are more excited
    about music than they have been in a long time.
    but for fuck sake... pay the man for his song and dance.
    otherwise the only people who can afford to record quality
    music are the cookie cutter boy bands with their corporate
    sponsors and media machines.
    (Dick In Box Excluded, of course)
    please do your best to support
    bands like Autolux, the Burning Brides, Isis, etc...
    they need you.
    i need you, but they need you more. having said that...
    i'm doing this pretty much on my own.
    no label support aside from the distributor.
    it's a HUGE learning curve.
    but if i can navigate it, i will be able to share what
    i've learned.
    i can make it easier for other bands
    that are trying to do it on their own.
    make it possible for us all to survive in our little microcosms
    rather than fall victim to the seductive song of the sirens...
    the expensive and impersonal macrocosm
    of the major label dog and pony show.
    once again, thank you for your efforts.

    m j keenan
    professional dumbass
    Originally posted by Zero102
    For the buying CDs part of this argument,
    I haven't bought a CD in ~10 years, I've been given a few as presents but that's about it. If I hear about new music I'll download an album, and if I like it I'll find the band's web page and donate $10 or $15 to the band. I know that doesn't pay the record labels and that's kind of the point


    I always thought it WAS legal to make a single copy for backup and personal use purposes, but apparently that copy can't be on your computer now?... shit, how far are they going to take this!
    Haha, bullshit. Bands don't have donation pages set up.

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    Originally posted by googe
    I think it's kind of a dick move to enjoy someone's work and not compensate them for it.

    Haha, bullshit. Bands don't have donation pages set up.

    Actually there are different theories as to how much the music industry is actually hurting because of downloading.

    One idea

    50cent is in favour of it

    There's many more articles and interviews from many different artists who feel the same way.
    For one thing, many people, me included, still spend the same amount of money on CD's even though they d/l. I actually spend more money now than I ever did on CD's. I will d/l a song or even a whole album...and then after hearing it, decide I want a clearer reproduction and go out and buy it. Instead of years ago, I'd spend money on an album, not like and get pissed and never buy another album from the artist.
    Another thing that the artists point out. Years ago the artist had to pay the sleazy agent millions of dollars just to get thier music out there..so people would hear it. Now..people can do that without the artist spending one dime.

    You will still to have dishonest people who will never buy a cd, but thats an evil that will always be there, just like you'll always have people stealing CD's out of stores.

    Many artists feel that instead of trying to fight a losing battle, they should embrace the new digital age and spend the money using it to their advantage. New artists are being discoverd every day because of free digital downloading from such sites as Myspace etc....where they dont have to hand over hard earned money to agents, promoters, DJ's, etc.

    One girl (I forget her name..not my kind of music) put 4 of her tracks on her myspace page...had over a million downloads and because of that has landed a contract with a major record company. That would've never happend 20 yrs ago.

    So....something to think about.
    Last edited by Maddog55; 01-01-2008 at 08:07 PM.

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    Originally posted by googe

    Haha, bullshit. Bands don't have donation pages set up.

    Not bullshit mate, but thanks for coming out.

    You post a big quote about how we need to support the indie bands, then tell me its bullshit because no bands take donations. Of course bands like tool and other big bands don't, but the little ones who need it do.
    Originally posted by Vagabond142
    Is the best game. Ever. In everness. It is more awesome than a robot caveman punching God in the dick. It is that awesome

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    ^Yeah, it says support them by buying records instead of pirating. You aren't talking about indie bands, because you just said you do it to avoid the labels. Any band signed to a label that has a donations page on their website is gonna get fired instantly, and probably sued.

    50 cent's opinion really doesn't mean much imo, he's so loaded he has no perspective whatsoever. I guess it depends what you listen to. It's not the superstar bands making millions that there is sympathy for. But if you listen to any lesser known bands at all, and appreciate that you can find that type of music, you really owe it to them to pay for that work.

    And it's not online promotion that they are referring to. Virtually every band has a myspace page nowadays (and the tracks aren't downloadable, just streamable, and the quality is shit). That isn't piracy, and no one is fighting against that. P2P software, torrents, another story. I don't even think any band is going to mind if you rip off their album to preview it, as long as you buy it after. If you give it a couple listens and don't buy it, either the whole album, or just the tracks you like from itunes or amazon or whatever, then delete it. Either you enjoy it or you don't, and if you don't, there is no reason to keep it.

    They can embrace technology all they want, and most do these days, but in the end they still need your support.

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    Every year we pass more legislation that creates more paper criminals (guns, drugs, smokers, people who own more than 2 dogs, fta receivers, etc.), so why wouldn't backing up media that you own be illegal?

    Personally, I think we should just skip to the end game and put all the new babies in work camps...
    Founding member of the Leave-Me-Alone-atarian party of Canada.

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    Originally posted by Crymson
    Who the hell has even LISTENED to a cd in like 5 years other than your grandparents!
    Me...all the time...the quality is considerably better on a CD than it is downloaded. Period.

    Then again, I'm not part of the large target audience that cares more-so about a gigantic downloaded library of music than sound quality.
    Last edited by msommers; 01-03-2008 at 03:43 AM.
    Ultracrepidarian

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    Not that anything the RIAA does anymore is shocking, but I just came across this website..... Easy, convenient, and painless!

    https://www.p2plawsuits.com/P2P_00_Home.aspx

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