Stupid Al Gore

[tirebob]

The only real way to reduce their dependency would be to double the price of gas imo. (not that I would be in favour of that) [/B]

I don't know about that... I would like to agree, but I have seen the price of gas more than double in the last 10 years and while evryone was freaking out and complaining, I don't see any less driving. We are addicted to our cars and we always find a way to pay the bill... Now if gas was $10.00 a liter maybe shit would change, but $2.00 vs $1.00? Naw... It would just drive inflation and we would keep driving...

I think it would help more to have big rebates (and I mean big... something truely substantial) and tax right offs for fuel efficient vehicles and have large penalities for gas guzzlers (and I mean LARGE). It could be at time of purchase and a yearly charge during the licensing fee payment etc. Of course there could be exemptions and reduced "extra taxes" for certain industries etc such as transport companies, farmers, etc, but when you see the guy driving his huge International CXT to starbucks for a coffee, I don't have a ton of sympathy...

[Eleanor]

Originally posted by b_t
Every time I see it I wish I had a hybrid or a diesel that gets 60mpg.

And yet you don't, so don't bitch about it if you aren't going to be proactive in reducing the problem.

BTW, yay diesel gets 60mpg, but have you seen emissions from diesels? there's so much particulate in them. they're way worse then gas engines. You're complaining about smog and you want a diesel? give me a fucking break.

and yeah no i want a hybrid, everyone should drive a hybrid so we can have lithium batteries piling up in landfills and leeching into our ground waterin a few years! have you looked into the manufacturing processes for lithium batteries? it's horrible for the environment but no one here gives a shit about it cause they don't see the effects cause they're all made overseas.

sorry, diesels and hybrids are not the fuels of the future car. i also don't believe that gm and chrysler should be cutting these engines, people will still want them. people don't buy a corvette cause they're concerned about the environment or emissions. If you're concerned about the environment, don't drive!

/rant

[b_t]

I don't drive a hybrid or a diesel because there is no vehicle that meets my needs and has a hybrid or diesel powerplant. Fuck off. Not driving is not a reasonable option in this province. I'd like to quit driving, but I'm not willing to bring my life and career to a stop to do it. I can ride a bike to work, easily, but not 12 months a year, and I definitely can't ride a bike all the way to SAIT from Cochrane for classes.

What do you propose then? You bitch about more economic vehicles in the first post, then you bitch about the more economic options that do exist. Then you suggest that people just drive the cars that do kill the environment, suggesting that you think cars should just stay the same as they are now, even though the proposed changes will not harm the performance of the car - it will just have less horsepower on paper.

Fuck! What is your train of thought here? Are you just an idiot, or do you have a point to make? Will you complain when performance cars run on ethanol, economy cars and trucks run on biodiesel, and Smart cars run on electric power?

[ricoRA]

There's, a problem there. How can we justify being e-friendly when we live in one town and work in another, will driving a diesel help or just cut down on the cost of fuel, why not consider moving close enough to be able to bike/walk/Transit in?

I quit a job a few years back because it was on the wrong side of town. (although 3/4 of us carpooled to work) I'd do the same if my current company decided to move the shop.
Not because of the cost in gas consumption but also the cost of time consumption.

I think some of the things we could be doing right now is trying not to drive across town on a daily basis and do more car pooling. I'm love cars too but I would not drive a 400 hp machine daily, unless it did get awesome mileage.

[arian_ma]

Originally posted by b_t
I don't drive a hybrid or a diesel because there is no vehicle that meets my needs and has a hybrid or diesel powerplant.

I'm going to assume what "meets your needs" is a truck since you drive an 07 Tacoma. You're going to tell me no trucks come with diesel?

[GTS Jeff]

You guys make it sound like Al Gore was the one who polluted the air...

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by blownz
The only real way to reduce their dependency would be to double the price of gas imo. (not that I would be in favour of that)

That won't do anything but cost inflation to go out of control.

CAFE standard is good. We would never have VTEC if it were for the Japanese over 2L displacemnt tax (or something in the effect).

The new CAFE standard is less severe than European or Japanese's standard and I'm sure this will bring even more exciting technologies.

[banned3x]

this is why the gnx was invented
yes i have a hemi and it really does suck on gas im putting at least $20 a day driving to work and small errands, im looking for 6.1liter so i can get to work faster and waste less gas so its a win/win for everyone

[Eleanor]

Originally posted by b_t
I don't drive a hybrid or a diesel because there is no vehicle that meets my needs and has a hybrid or diesel powerplant. Fuck off. Not driving is not a reasonable option in this province. I'd like to quit driving, but I'm not willing to bring my life and career to a stop to do it. I can ride a bike to work, easily, but not 12 months a year, and I definitely can't ride a bike all the way to SAIT from Cochrane for classes.

What do you propose then? You bitch about more economic vehicles in the first post, then you bitch about the more economic options that do exist. Then you suggest that people just drive the cars that do kill the environment, suggesting that you think cars should just stay the same as they are now, even though the proposed changes will not harm the performance of the car - it will just have less horsepower on paper.

Fuck! What is your train of thought here? Are you just an idiot, or do you have a point to make? Will you complain when performance cars run on ethanol, economy cars and trucks run on biodiesel, and Smart cars run on electric power?

What I'm trying to say is that due to this stupid CAFE regulations, all the U.S. Government is doing is actually being more harmful to the environment, if they wanted to actually do something to help the environment, they'd make emissions regulations, not fuel economy. fuel economy standards are not going to reduce emissions.

Example: Dodge can't make Hemis anymore, so they put a V6 into their 1/4 ton. But people buy the truck to tow stuff, now with a v6 the truck's engine has to work a lot harder, thus not allowing the engine to be at it's most efficient rpm. Look at the honda ridgeline as an example. Really good mileage for a truck, now try weighing it down with payload or a trailer. You have to rev the piss out of it to get it going and to keep it going, watch your fuel gauge dive.

now i know you're going to say, what about a diesel 1/4 ton? as i already mentioned, diesels are fucking dirty, lots of particulate. I know they're not as bad as they used to be, but they're still dirty. The other problem with diesels are they're heavy too, hurting their fuel economy.

as for my earlier comment, you were complaining about the smog over calgary and yet you drive a truck in from cochrane every day? if you're driving a truck everywhere, don't complain about smog. just like people who own suv's or performance cars and bitch about gas prices, wtf are you thinking?

and yes i will complain when cars run on ethanol, biodiesel and electricity. electricity requires batteries which i already mentioned are really harmful to the environment, ethanol and biodiesel are grain based, driving grain prices through the roof and starving in particular third world countries. Plus they both still put out CO2 and H2O which are the two biggest contributors to global warming.

I am concerned about the environment, but there are other better things we can do then make sure that the CAFE standard is 30mpg or w/e. Hybrids and diesels are not the answer.

[b_t]

Logic dictates that cars that get better mileage not only burn less fuel, reducing total emissions, but also reduces fuel needs, and in turn processing needs, and then extraction needs, and then that in turn reduces the pollution generated by all the associated work... of course it will never actually reduce the total pollution output created by the refining process, but it will slow its increase.

I don't see how making cars more fuel efficient harms the environment more...

So Dodge will put a V6 in the quarter ton. People, in fact, do not constantly tow trailers. That argument has no bearing on the fact the truck will have better average mileage over the course of its lifetime. Turbocharger technology has come a long way and would benefit from the increased effective octane rating of ethanol gas, so that could even make up any power deficit while still getting better mileage on the average. People who do tow constantly will buy the bigger super duty trucks and (should) pay a heavy tax to the tune of 10% of the truck's purchase price or more that (should) be used to develop alternative fuel resources further...

My truck is basically the most economic pickup you can buy fuckhead. I need to haul a hell of a lot more than a hatchback can carry, so I got the Tacoma that will it in one trip and average better mileage than a V6 car from the 90s. And since I can fit it all in one trip, I burn less gas on the whole... Its not like I got a Dodge 3500 to carry around a whole band's gigging gear. I drive to school - because I fucking need to. If they come out with a turbodiesel Tacoma, guess who is going to be first in line? My next truck, when my lease expires, is going to be the new hybrid GMC 1500, but since that option didn't even fucking exist when I bought it, I took the absolute best option available at the time. There were other factors too, I know you'll say I am not hauling stuff all the time, but I need the ground clearance to get to some work sites, need the utility when at some work sites, etc.

New batteries have an relatively long life time and aren't as toxic as old batteries have been. Ethanol will not affect the world food supply, especially in areas that do not depend on grain for most of their food - like most third world countries - and in fact could help boost their industry and reduce increases in pollution as they turn to agriculture instead of heavy industry to take advantage of any potential market for ethanol fuel. Biodiesel recycles the output of fast food chains and once again, won't have much of an impact on the world food market.

What are other better things we can do, other than attempting to reduce the increase in fuel consumption? Hit me with some good ideas there. So far, you haven't scored a point.

[DonJuan]

Originally posted by Eleanor

What I'm trying to say is that due to this stupid CAFE regulations, all the U.S. Government is doing is actually being more harmful to the environment, if they wanted to actually do something to help the environment, they'd make emissions regulations, not fuel economy. fuel economy standards are not going to reduce emissions.

Example: Dodge can't make Hemis anymore, so they put a V6 into their 1/4 ton. But people buy the truck to tow stuff, now with a v6 the truck's engine has to work a lot harder, thus not allowing the engine to be at it's most efficient rpm. Look at the honda ridgeline as an example. Really good mileage for a truck, now try weighing it down with payload or a trailer. You have to rev the piss out of it to get it going and to keep it going, watch your fuel gauge dive.

now i know you're going to say, what about a diesel 1/4 ton? as i already mentioned, diesels are fucking dirty, lots of particulate. I know they're not as bad as they used to be, but they're still dirty. The other problem with diesels are they're heavy too, hurting their fuel economy.

as for my earlier comment, you were complaining about the smog over calgary and yet you drive a truck in from cochrane every day? if you're driving a truck everywhere, don't complain about smog. just like people who own suv's or performance cars and bitch about gas prices, wtf are you thinking?

and yes i will complain when cars run on ethanol, biodiesel and electricity. electricity requires batteries which i already mentioned are really harmful to the environment, ethanol and biodiesel are grain based, driving grain prices through the roof and starving in particular third world countries. Plus they both still put out CO2 and H2O which are the two biggest contributors to global warming.

I am concerned about the environment, but there are other better things we can do then make sure that the CAFE standard is 30mpg or w/e. Hybrids and diesels are not the answer.

preaching to the choir my man.

Until the automotive industry decide to mass produce hydrogen fuel cell technology, I'm gonna continue filling up 80L of premium and getting 400km.

Hybrids are not the answer, growing biofuel isn't either. How can someone argue that an amount of corn that would feed a person for a month is put to better use as a tank of biofuel in an SUV. Talk about a waste of freakin time!

If your truly worried about the environment don't go out and buy a hybrid to increase your MPG; instead reduce your environmental footprint, use less, spend less (it's hippie talk but it does have a point). I'm not gonna rant on about how the parts of a hybrid car have crossed the globe 2 times in total. If you actually want to save the environment by buying a hybrid, you have to drive that hybrid for 40 years before the inital cost to the environment of the making and delivery of the hybrid make it more of a globe killer than an Escalade used over the normal 15-20 year life. Before that Prius has even left the factory it has caused more global environmental pollution than an SUV that was made in Detroit with local materials, and sold in North America will make over it's entire life time.

Gawd, I said I wouldn't rant on...

Great, now someone is gonna start typing in CAPS and demanding references, I'm done.

[riceeater]

Originally posted by b_t


You fucking moron, the CF fumes must be getting to your head. I like your name - riceeater - but you are the biggest producer of nice CF patterned rice in the whole fucking city.

coming from the guy that told me that mixing gasoline with toluene will blow me up because mixing gas is an exothermic reaction and the heat caused is enough to make an explosion, i can only laugh you were just as mouthy back then, you're still just as mouthy now... you'd think 2-3 years would have made an effect on you...

i think every city has a little bit of polution, it's to be expected, but calgary has no heavy industry. Most of our gas just comes from cars, and having been in a lot of other cities all over the world that were stinky as hell, i like calgary just fine... imo we have a LONG way to go before it becomes a noticeable problem... if we have smog, what does toronto have? or a polluted city in eastern europe?

and that's just my 2 cents... you dont need to get your panties in a knot over it

[riceeater]

have you guys seen that new DIESOTTO engine from mercedes? It's a gasoline engine that runs like a diesel, and has diesel like performance... could be interesting a few years from now



http://jalopnik.com/cars/teutonic-ef...gas-282231.php

[b_t]

Originally posted by DonJuan


preaching to the choir my man.

Until the automotive industry decide to mass produce hydrogen fuel cell technology, I'm gonna continue filling up 80L of premium and getting 400km.

Hybrids are not the answer, growing biofuel isn't either. How can someone argue that an amount of corn that would feed a person for a month is put to better use as a tank of biofuel in an SUV. Talk about a waste of freakin time!

If your truly worried about the environment don't go out and buy a hybrid to increase your MPG; instead reduce your environmental footprint, use less, spend less (it's hippie talk but it does have a point). I'm not gonna rant on about how the parts of a hybrid car have crossed the globe 2 times in total. If you actually want to save the environment by buying a hybrid, you have to drive that hybrid for 40 years before the inital cost to the environment of the making and delivery of the hybrid make it more of a globe killer than an Escalade used over the normal 15-20 year life. Before that Prius has even left the factory it has caused more global environmental pollution than an SUV that was made in Detroit with local materials, and sold in North America will make over it's entire life time.

Gawd, I said I wouldn't rant on...

Great, now someone is gonna start typing in CAPS and demanding references, I'm done.

I like the hypocrisy here... you tell me to change my lifestyle to reduce my footprint, but then say you are going to continue driving your pig of a car because the options that do exist to drastically reduce your footprint are, for some reason, not good enough for you.

Hydrogren fuel cells? This technology is not perfect either and still requires gasses to be burnt to produce them. It seems to me you are rejecting all these other options because they are not perfect, but hydrogren is not perfect either.

I'm not typing in caps but I am going to ask for some references. If you aren't going to back up your fucking argument, don't bother posting in the first place.

[b_t]

Originally posted by riceeater


coming from the guy that told me that mixing gasoline with toluene will blow me up because mixing gas is an exothermic reaction and the heat caused is enough to make an explosion, i can only laugh you were just as mouthy back then, you're still just as mouthy now... you'd think 2-3 years would have made an effect on you...

i think every city has a little bit of polution, it's to be expected, but calgary has no heavy industry. Most of our gas just comes from cars, and having been in a lot of other cities all over the world that were stinky as hell, i like calgary just fine... imo we have a LONG way to go before it becomes a noticeable problem... if we have smog, what does toronto have? or a polluted city in eastern europe?

and that's just my 2 cents... you dont need to get your panties in a knot over it

It is a noticeable fucking problem. There is now smog clearly visible where there was none 5-10 years before. There is a huge fucking brown cloud above this city on a pretty regular basis. This is a symptom of the fucking problem. The problem is the city is too big, too spread out, has a shitty public transportation system that no one uses, too many people drive, not enough people carpool, we have too many cars per family, too many trucks on the whole....

You are right though, we should just wait until the air actually does smell bad and becomes a health concern before do anything about it though. That's the best way to do things. Your 2 cents is about as worthless as your CF laminations.

As far as the toulene thing, yeah that was great, but it also wasn't 2-3 years ago and you were about as persuasive then as you are now.. if the engineer never posted, you never would have been vindicated.

[riceeater]

Originally posted by b_t


It is a noticeable fucking problem. There is now smog clearly visible where there was none 5-10 years before. There is a huge fucking brown cloud above this city on a pretty regular basis. This is a symptom of the fucking problem. The problem is the city is too big, too spread out, has a shitty public transportation system that no one uses, too many people drive, not enough people carpool, we have too many cars per family, too many trucks on the whole....

hmmm... shitty deal for you then, i guess working from home in the suburbs I get to miss out on all the best the city has to offer Haven't ran into any pollution yet, walking down the stairs

Originally posted by b_t

Your 2 cents is about as worthless as your CF laminations.

hahahahhaahaah, you broke my heart with that one

Originally posted by b_t
As far as the toulene thing, yeah that was great, but it also wasn't 2-3 years ago and you were about as persuasive then as you are now.. if the engineer never posted, you never would have been vindicated.

ahahahhahahahahahahhahahah... hahahahahahahahahhahahahahaha.... so by your logic, i was only vindicated when someone educated came on and mouth fed you the info in baby steps so even you'd understand and realize you're an idiot, and that's good? So stupidity and ignorance according to you should always win out just because you shout louder and cuss out more, and people who know what they're talking about are all idiots, unless an expert happens to wonder by?? hahahahahahaha mixing gas releases large amounts of heat hahahahahhahahaha... it still kills me hahahahahahahahahhahahahahahahaha

Dont ever leave this forum dude, we all need a good laugh, and you're hard to beat.

[b_t]

Nice stuff man, I love that shit. You ducked out of that one pretty neatly, I guess actually thinking about stuff is not your forte. I'll spoon feed you this next bit. I'm not making anything up here, but just step back and read these and see if this makes any sense.

P - Their is pollution visible over Calgary frequently in the day
P - I do not have to leave my house for work
C - Pollution in Calgary is not an issue until I can smell it in my house.

That might be too late.

Next one...
P - Calgary has a pollution problem
P - I live in Calgary but don't leave my house for work
C - Pollution is not my problem

Okayyy...

So the big difference between you and me is I admit I was wrong in that thread, but now you are just typing "haha" a lot. The bad part of that is its going to draw a lot of attention to your post and how totally lacking in everything it is. You certainly are speaking for your character on this one
You don't seem to understand mine though so I'll spell it out. I don't trust anyone who does not back up what they are saying. I don't care how old the guy looks, how long he claims to have been doing something for, or how he says it. If he doesn't give me a good explanation for something, it is worthless to me. "Because" is never an explanation. You didn't back up anything you said in the thread, so I ignored everything you said. Then when a guy who knew his shit explained it, bam, the very next post was me admitting I was wrong.
You don't seem like the kind of guy who is competent enough to run a successful business. Good luck anyway.

[riceeater]

you just automatically assume i dont care about the environment... we planted 80 pines at my mom's bf's acreage last year, and 9 in our yard... not asking for any cookies, just saying i do care... i just dont think it's as bad as other places, not by a long long shot, and i dont see how you can disagree on that...

i think expanding the c-train transit lines will help cut down on polution from cars the most, since that's our biggest real problem here... that, and more interchanges so traffic flows smoothly into downtown to cut down on idling...

imo, instead of bullshit carbon credits and other scams, we should all just be planting trees... that whole 15 bux per ton of CO2 they've imposed, that should all go into planting trees...

[AG_Styles]

expanding a public system will not cut down on pollution as service will still suck. as long as the service is horrendous, people will still and always drive their SUV's and cars whereever and whenever they want.

as long as the city insists their transportation system is world class, this will be the case.

[hjr]

running registrations like they do in the UK could help with changing demand. Instead of a flat fee for everyone at around 70 buck (iirc) we could classify all vehicles by how much they pollute. The yearly registration then relates to how your vehicle runs. this of course benefits new vehicles far above old ones, and would probably require 'smog' testing, but neither of which is that big a deal.

so if you run a truck with a v10, reg = 250
you run a nissan altima, reg = 100
you run a toyota yaris, reg = 50


long run? people actually see the costs of their choices, and can choose to pay it, or not. long run though, more efficient vehicle will be on the road