Benefit of Battery capacitors (Hot InaZma and the like)

[Caretaker]

From the same page explaining the benefit of Earth cables, this one explains the benefit of a capacitor on the battery. There are several variants (like the Hot InaZma discussed lately) but basically the explanation is the same:

http://www.sigmaautomotive.com:8080/DPS/dps.html

if someone can explain me how one can increase torque and the other HP, I would appreciate. In my view, I don't understand how this thing can work on torque or HP separately.

tia,

CT

[rage2]

When you increase Torque at a certain RPM, you increase Horsepower at that same certain RPM. HP = TQ * RPM / 5252.

[Caretaker]

Thanks Rage. You have an idea on how they can come up with a capacitor that works best at low and high revs?

I am talking about the LR, HR and MR Hot InaZma.

tia

[rice_eater]

hahahahaha...this thing is even better...$460!!! i love how they managed to include everything anyone would ever want in that thing...

Improved engine start-up
more stable idling
more responsive acceleration
enhanced turbo boost response & performance
smoothen shift changing in automatic transmission
more fuel economy
higher torque
higher horsepower
enhance audio sound quality

...hahahaha...I love the "smoothen the auto-shifts" part. How it could be any smoother is beyond me...is there anything else this thing can't do? Is it even gonna enhance your handling while it's at it coz the electron flow through your power steering pump is better??? LOL

[Caretaker]

yes indeed Rice eater..it sounds like this thing could even get anyone a girlfriend also :-)

There must be some science behind this though and some claims must be right, although I don't know enough about electrical engineering to refute or believe all their claims.

I'd love to have Dr. Lightspeed opinion on this device if he can or anyone that could explain some of these points:

Improved engine start-up
more stable idling
more responsive acceleration
enhanced turbo boost response & performance
smoothen shift changing in automatic transmission
more fuel economy
higher torque
higher horsepower
enhance audio sound quality


I understand and would agree to these following claims:

1- about improving the engine start-up:

Since the battery is used in that case..better voltage, better start-up

2- Fuel economy

Recharging the battery is done by the alternator..this requires a source of energy and therefore more fuel. So if the battery doesn't need to be recharged by the alternator, you save there? Maybe it is best illustrated when you seem to loose power when the airconditionner is on? At least I noticed that in my Integra.

If we extrapolate more in that direction, "destressing" the alternator would mean more power can be used for moving the car? Maybe this is a reason why some race cars have no onboard charging systems since the battery can last 2 hours (the duration of the race) without problems.

I'm trying to understand, please correct me if I misunderstand something.

[rice_eater]

you my friend don't know too much about cars...your alternator is spun by a belt, which is spun by the crank...the crank spinns independetly of how good your electricity flow is...so yeah...this thing makes no sense to begin with...it goes between your batery terminals...SO? how does that change anything? Why are there no wires linking the two battery terminals on any car to begin with???

[Caretaker]

Originally posted by rice_eater
you my friend don't know too much about cars...your alternator is spun by a belt, which is spun by the crank...the crank spinns independetly of how good your electricity flow is...so yeah...this thing makes no sense to begin with...it goes between your batery terminals...SO? how does that change anything? Why are there no wires linking the two battery terminals on any car to begin with???

thanks for that comment Rice but i still don't understand why then disconnecting the alternator on full throttle has been used by teams in touring Cars for many years. Can you explain that? I remember Racelogic developed such systems. I think it was called Alterpower or something.

Does it makes sense to think that this thing prevents the battery to discharge? This would remove the load on the alternator. I think I am not too far off because otherwise turning on the AC would not decrease the car response if the alternator was never "demanding" more power from the engine.

[tulit]

you my friend don't know too much about cars...your alternator is spun by a belt, which is spun by the crank...the crank spinns independetly of how good your electricity flow is

you my friend don't know too much about electricity j/k.

Higher the electrical load on the system (more current flowing through the alternator), harder it is for the engine to turn the alternator (stronger eddy currents resist the rotational motion).

As to how this thing does/could work. The only real thing I can see is it smoothing out" the voltage in the system. Whether that helps your automatic transmission shift better, I have no idea

[Weapon_R]

Originally posted by Caretaker


If we extrapolate more in that direction, "destressing" the alternator would mean more power can be used for moving the car?

I'm trying to understand, please correct me if I misunderstand something.

Not really sure how it works, but for some weird ass reason, I always thought it was the engine that moved the car, and not the alternator

[Caretaker]

Originally posted by Weapon_R


Not really sure how it works, but for some weird ass reason, I always thought it was the engine that moved the car, and not the alternator

yes the engine moves the car but the engine also has to <feed> or keep the alternator happy. So if the alternator has <its belly full> the engine has more power to move your wheels.

Imagine it is similar to when your kids are playing videogames instead of fighting among each others.
In that case, they don't disturb you and you therefore have more energy to do what you want to do.

correct?

[ninspeed]

Originally posted by Caretaker



yes the engine moves the car but the engine also has to &lt;feed&gt; or keep the alternator happy. So if the alternator has &lt;its belly full&gt; the engine has more power to move your wheels.

Imagine it is similar to when your kids are playing videogames instead of fighting among each others.
In that case, they don't disturb you and you therefore have more energy to do what you want to do.

correct?

WTF kinda comparison is that?? Hell man, buy it if you belive in it, install it after you run a baseline and let me know if ya get more then .3 hp k?

[Caretaker]

Originally posted by ninspeed


WTF kinda comparison is that?? Hell man, buy it if you belive in it, install it after you run a baseline and let me know if ya get more then .3 hp k?

I did buy it and installed it. I got the HR Hot Inazma and I would like to do a dynamometer test like they did on the web page mentionned in the first post of this thread if I have a chance. This one was not 450$ but 90$.

The comparison seems like a stretch but it makes it easier to understand. Simplification of complicated systems by making analogies is useful in many domains. I used this extensively in pharmacology at work and at home with the kids. Those are old tricks used by many teachers.

If we would tell each time to someone to buy something, test it and report it, what would be this forum for? I think this place is an interesting platform to learn from the more knowledgeable persons in car mechanics and electrical systems and to understand what the theory tells us about something as practical as increasing a car performance.

[Dr. Lightspeed]

I actually have thye hyperground equivalent of that which by all understanding is the same company. They even use the same part numbers. Dyno numbers from Apexi and XS engineering show 2-2.5 horse gains. I will be watching the current and several other parameters when I dyno this unit next week. My best understanding of everything is it simply smooths the current. This just enables everything to work at a constant. I have several graphs from Apexi showing the current was smoothed out when watching it with a labscope. I will be doing my own testing next week. On several cars watching where and when it makes a diff. Quite pricey but if it makes a 2-5 hspr that is half of what an intake makes and costs substantially less. By the way our units are not $480.00 but $282.00 cnd.

[Dr. Lightspeed]

Originally posted by tulit


you my friend don't know too much about electricity j/k.

Higher the electrical load on the system (more current flowing through the alternator), harder it is for the engine to turn the alternator (stronger eddy currents resist the rotational motion).

As to how this thing does/could work. The only real thing I can see is it smoothing out&quot; the voltage in the system. Whether that helps your automatic transmission shift better, I have no idea

Agreed I will test it and hopefully put this to bed. I do not know if it works but I am tending to believe the people who put me on to it. My only thinking is if your automatic is electronically controlled then I could see the smoothing action possibly making it work better possibly. I will tell you after my own testing. By holding voltage in the capcitor maybe the alt will not be working as hard. However cutting the field to the alt will drop horse from the testing I have done that so that is not even an option.

[THREE40SEVEN]

Caretaker,
At the rate you're going, you'll have the slowest car with the most amount of speed parts on it

If a performance part sounds too good to be true, it IS.
Significant power gains come from power adders (turbo/superchargers/nitrous), or taking the top of the engine apart, and replacing or modifying the head (s) intake, valvetrain etc...
All of these bolt ons like the ground wires, chips (excluding blown applications), and cold air inductions, are a complete waste of time and money. You will not feel anything in the seat of the pants from these mods.

FYI, i dynoed my car with the alternator unplugged, and i lost 6 rwhp on a md250 chassis dyno.

Your learning
Good Luck

[Caretaker]

Originally posted by THREE40SEVEN

All of these bolt ons like the ground wires, chips (excluding blown applications), and cold air inductions, are a complete waste of time and money. You will not feel anything in the seat of the pants from these mods.

FYI, i dynoed my car with the alternator unplugged, and i lost 6 rwhp on a md250 chassis dyno.

This is weird..your battery was brand new and giving you a stable 12 volts? were the tests done the same day at same air temperature?

I agree absolutely that there are far better performance mods like a turbo or supercharger that you mention. First it is not feasible to put a turbo in my car according to a mazda mechanic. Provided a supercharger would work, it would cost like what 2000$? In that case, I'd rather get a faster car.

The car I have is the A-Spec touring Sport20..so it has all the feasible mods installed already by Mazdaspeed that they considered safe I think.

Adding a nitro is not a good idea at 5$ a boost of 20 seconds but for someone else it might be cheap if your life depends on it.

Let's see Dr LightSpeed dynamo results and we will be able to find if these gizmos are BS. If they are, I promess to put them on eBay ;-)

[Dr. Lightspeed]

I beleieve you lost 6 hs that makes total sense because your coil wouldn't be saturating properly. I have done this test also. I know I am going to be flamed for this also but most power pulleys make a vehicle slower. At least in several tests I have done. Not saying all but definately some. Also have seen them cause uncotrolable detonation in a couple cars after being installed for 6 months.

[Caretaker]

To make you salivate before while waiting for Dr. LightSpeed dyno tests:

I found a similar device that was reviewed by VW motoring magazine.

here is the link:

http://alterpower.co.uk/press.htm

they show some dyno curves and explain how it works.

[4wheeldrift]

Originally posted by Caretaker


thanks for that comment Rice but i still don't understand why then disconnecting the alternator on full throttle has been used by teams in touring Cars for many years. Can you explain that? I remember Racelogic developed such systems. I think it was called Alterpower or something.

One less thing eating power at the crank.

[5.9 R/T]

Wouldn't that be the same setup as the AC compressor. ie just with a clutch to engage the alt. I know that some cars disengage the AC under WOT and obviously all do when the AC is not in use so it would make sense that they could do the same for the alt.