Strathmore Investment/Development Opportunity

[JRSC00LUDE]

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He just sold shitty investments under false pretences and costed some people their life savings.

Question, even though I too have no dog in this fight. Is there direct clear evidence that he sold under false pretense and, more importantly if the answer is yes, that he KNEW if was false pretense?

I would imagine most people, if their family started a business venture and said "Hey man we're going to hire you and you can make some really good money. This is what your job is.", would be on board in a heartbeat as you're being guided by the persons you know and trust most in your life. I'd imagine a lot of those same people, as appears to be the case here, would also buy in if given the opportunity and that by doing so they would also be taking the same risk they're selling.

I'm looking for the specific intentional fraud caused by Zorro and I'm having trouble seeing it.

[Type_S1]

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Question, even though I too have no dog in this fight. Is there direct clear evidence that he sold under false pretense and, more importantly if the answer is yes, that he KNEW if was false pretense?

I would imagine most people, if their family started a business venture and said "Hey man we're going to hire you and you can make some really good money. This is what your job is.", would be on board in a heartbeat as you're being guided by the persons you know and trust most in your life. I'd imagine a lot of those same people, as appears to be the case here, would also buy in if given the opportunity and that by doing so they would also be taking the same risk they're selling.

I'm looking for the specific intentional fraud caused by Zorro and I'm having trouble seeing it.

Read the thread. There are things that were said that in no way, even at the time of posting, could be seen as 100% the truth. Again, ZorroAMG did nothing illegal. This is not technically fraud because they are still slowly developing the land.

There is an area between legitimate and illegal that is not socially acceptable in our culture. This is one of those instances. Read the first post of this thread. Greasy salesman tactics over promising things that were not realistically true.

[killramos]

So someone who knows more about this “investment” than I do (I don’t want to read the whole thread).

Of the initial investment $10,000 was in a land secured bond at 8% annual yield for a 5 year term. Did they default on the bonds?

Otherwise only $10 of the $10,010 investment was in shares? I really don’t see where the 27% annualized return comes in from all this considering the shares were such a small part of the investment.

If you wanted to get Zorro on something “illegal” I would probably be looking at the wording of how he was marketing those bonds since that would fall under securities regulations. Which to be fair, Canada is hopelessly bad at prosecuting.

The marth on this stinks from the first post.

Quite an interesting situation overall.

[JRSC00LUDE]

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Read the thread. There are things that were said that in no way, even at the time of posting, could be seen as 100% the truth. Again, ZorroAMG did nothing illegal. This is not technically fraud because they are still slowly developing the land.

There is an area between legitimate and illegal that is not socially acceptable in our culture. This is one of those instances. Read the first post of this thread. Greasy salesman tactics over promising things that were not realistically true.

I only read the initial post and skimmed the first couple pages, I'm not arguing to argue - just finding it interesting. The 27% annual rate of return is really the only thing that would give my eyebrows a huge raise but I think 10 years ago, everyone was still in full "Boom" mindset and those returns were likely relatively within reason on a project like that in that climate, no? Anyone forecasting them to last 5 YEARS was being pretty irresponsible but, so was anyone believing that at face value and not doing their homework.

I never saw anyone say it wasn't high risk either. Gambling on market forces that are well beyond anyone's control is no different than going to Vegas and putting it all on a hard 8 imo - anyone thinking they had a sure thing had no business investing and will have learned something valuable. At a time when people are watching others double their money on real estate deals, 27% return seems conservative (which gives it the appearance of credibility by comparison, even if not by informed common sense) and a way for the Average Joe to get a piece of the developer pie.

I'm still having a hard time finding the grease/immorality in it, minus the typical hyped up real estate speculation sales attitude. But again, if you're not smart enough to perform your own checks/balances homework and make a relatively informed decision then the fault is still yours I think.

[sabad66]

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Read the thread. There are things that were said that in no way, even at the time of posting, could be seen as 100% the truth. Again, ZorroAMG did nothing illegal. This is not technically fraud because they are still slowly developing the land.

There is an area between legitimate and illegal that is not socially acceptable in our culture. This is one of those instances. Read the first post of this thread. Greasy salesman tactics over promising things that were not realistically true.

I'm no lawyer, but aren't you being libelous by calling him a scammer and dragging him and his family's name through the mud even though he technically hasn't done anything illegal? A scam IMO would generally mean all money is gone... in this case it just seems the timeline has been extended significantly and not necessarily a complete loss.

Disclosure: i have met Mark a couple of times but don't have any skin in this investment. Just observing.

[Kloubek]

You know, my entire time here I never saw this thread once. So when I viewed the first post, I was like... "hey, the's really enthusiastic about this opportunity". Then I came to this in that same original post:

"$10,010 investment will net you $23,758 total, including initial investment. This is a %137 ROI over 5yrs including the 8%/yr returning bond. Again, an annual rate of return of 27%"

While there ARE such things as guaranteed investments, they generally yield 5% or less. So then two things came to mind most of us were taught at some point:
"If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is"
and one more general phrase which is something along the lines of "Be wary of claimed "fantastic returns" on your investment". I will further that by saying the more variables that are involved, the more opportunity there is for things to go sideways. In both cases, there were red flags which people ignored, and it came back to bite them in the ass.

It is a shame this failed "opportunity" was presented to our members, but as someone else mentioned, it is still everyone's responsibility to do their due diligence, research, and check out an investment for themselves before going in. Especially when the minimum investment is 10g+.

[Type_S1]

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I'm no lawyer, but aren't you being libelous by calling him a scammer and dragging him and his family's name through the mud even though he technically hasn't done anything illegal? A scam IMO would generally mean all money is gone... in this case it just seems the timeline has been extended significantly and not necessarily a complete loss.

Disclosure: i have met Mark a couple of times but don't have any skin in this investment. Just observing.

I use the word scam and shady interchangeably because Like I said multiple timed, he did nothing illegal nor did the company as far as I am aware but the way this was marketed seems like a scam/shady to me in my personal opinion. Everything I’ve said in this thread is my personal opinion on the matter, nothing more.

If he was 100% naive as to the riskiness of the deal and oblivious to how overpromising huge returns to people pushed them to invest then he did absolutely nothing wrong.

I honestly don’t even believe he is a bad guy as many beyonders have said he’s decent...I would have liked to see him apologize to the beyonders hurt by signing up for this though

[adidas]

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I honestly don’t even believe he is a bad guy as many beyonders have said he’s decent...I would have liked to see him apologize to the beyonders hurt by signing up for this though

What is there to apologize for? If you got blindsided by his cute words, the onus should be on you to complete your due diligence on the matter. In my opinion, those that invested had no business at all investing in an industry they know little about. To add to this, does Cancorp have any previous land development experience, prior to this project commencing?

Once the entire subdivision is sold, the investors can start to see a return and believe me it won't be anywhere near the 137% promised. Additionally, this will take time and is solely pegged to their lot sales.

[max_boost]

Yes in hindsight it was too good to be true. Learn from the mistakes of others

It is what it is.

[Rocket1k78]

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Yes in hindsight it was too good to be true. Learn from the mistakes of others

It is what it is.

If it was a joe blow pitching you this deal i would 110% say its BS but coming from someone who sounded like a solid member with his own family backing the deal i probably would've invested too if i knew him.

[rage2]

I knew him. I didn't invest. Even made fun of maxboost haha.

[Xtrema]

These "investment" has been around since dawn of time. We were pitched similar crap in the 80s when we landed as immigrants.

All immigrants who are used to no bad land deals in Asia all get burnt.

30 years later, people are still falling for these "deals".

Here's rule of thumb, if it's easy money, they don't need your $100K or $200K. There are enough money in town they don't need to crowd source if it's not high risk.

[killramos]

For those hesitant to call this a scam; the ASC seems comfortable enough with the word...

http://www.albertasecurities.com/inv...ng-a-scam.aspx

[max_boost]

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These "investment" has been around since dawn of time. We were pitched similar crap in the 80s when we landed as immigrants.



Here's rule of thumb, if it's easy money, they don't need your $100K or $200K. There are enough money in town they don't need to crowd source if it's not high risk.

Basically.

I am glad it was $10k and not $100k lol

[HiTempguy1]

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For those hesitant to call this a scam; the ASC seems comfortable enough with the word...

http://www.albertasecurities.com/inv...ng-a-scam.aspx

I don't think anyone can really argue against this, or that Beyonders can be incredibly biased in their opinions of people.

Fact is, the guy pushed a scam, and beyond that, it was a scam HIS FAMILY ran. Fuck off with the "he didn't know" crap and the "due diligence" bullshit. "Do your due diligence" surprisingly enough, is not a valid argument in court when an actual scam has occurred. Pretty telling as well that he can't show his face around here anymore. Turn tail and hide with no apology (regardless of intent, at the end of the day he did deceive people, even if "unintentionally" through naivety of the situation). Doesn't exactly scream volumes about his character.

[hurrdurr]

Glad he didn't ask me in person - those dream eyes would have had me signing on the dotted line like @max_boost

[freshvibes]

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Step 1: create an “investment” opportunity
Step 2: market such opportunity, promising outlandish returns, to people that are not educated in the business segment such opportunity exists
Step 3: collect tens of millions of dollars (not sure the exact numbers here) and shake a lot of hands and keep promising amazing returns
Step 4: pay yourself, family, and associates millions of dollars for being “managers” of the “investment”. In short, make yourself rich before any investment dollars are returned to investors.
Step 5: tell investors times are tough so the opportunities timeframe has been pushed out and returns will be delayed.
Step 6: fall off the face of the planet for multiple years and not respond to previous investors inquiries all while still paying yourself and associates for “managing” the “investment”
Step 7: slowly work on the opportunity, but donÂ’t really put any effort into it, so you cannot be charged with fraud.
Step 8: hire your own companies and families companies to build the project promised to investors without competitively bidding out work to make even more money.
Step 9: continue to collect “management” fees, slowly work on project to avoid legal problems, refuse to update original investors, and hire yourself and family to work on the project.
Step 10: ???????

If you canÂ’t see how real estate projects like this are a scam I donÂ’t know what to tell you. The people who started this did so not as an investment opportunity but as a get rich quick scheme and have continued to leech off the project for years and years and will continue to do so for years to come. These people are millionaires simply by fucking gullible people over and taking their money under false pretences.

Bingo.

This scam is essentially structured as a pyramid scheme as in they trick people to invest in new projects to fund very slight work on old projects with no real intentions of ever completing it. As long as minimal work is being done it tells you hey we're a real company doing real work hence why this project is still under development for 5-10 years. Legally the investor can't do anything about it and by then has carried on with their lives chalking it up as a bad investment.

[msommers]

I find it pretty interesting that the people who are the most outraged by all this have not even invested and yet the people who have invested seem like they're the least concerned.

[revelations]

I know nothing about this whole operation or thread, but anyone who read:

$10,010 investment will net you $23,758 total, including initial investment. This is a %137 ROI over 5yrs including the 8%/yr returning bond. Again, an annual rate of return of 27%

should have immediately walked away. This is a promise in writing (guaranteeing) for profits. Pretty sure if this was done through legit means (besides a beyond thread), its likely illegal and reportable.

[hurrdurr]

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I find it pretty interesting that the people who are the most outraged by all this have not even invested and yet the people who have invested seem like they're the least concerned.

+1.