Dual Clutch Transmission vs Manual

[rage2]

haha, thought I'd bring this debate back on the table. A lot of guys still believe manuals are fastest, giving the driver the most control. Well, when a professional driver tests 3 Porsche 911's with their new PDK dual clutch, manual, and old Auto... it goes to show how much of an advantage the dual clutch tranny has.

Porsche decided to do a little 'Ring running in three different 2009-spec 911 models and quietly let the results slip during a press event. A 2009 911S fitted with Porsche's new twin clutch system (PDK: Porsche Doppelkupplung), Porsche Active Stability Management and "sport tires" took the top place, scoring a 7:50. The new PDK shifts a whopping 60-percent faster than the old Tiptronic S.

The first place getter was followed by what is assumed to be a 2009 911S with a manual transmission some eight seconds back, and then a 2008 911 S another four seconds back, at 8:02. There's no word on who was driving the cars, or what exactly counts as a "sport tire."

According to FastestLaps.com, Walter Rohrl did a 7:49 in a 997 turbo two years ago. If the next year's 911S is really that close to the twin-blower, that's not a bad feat. Still, the Cadillac CTS-V did the thing in 7:59 -- and so did the C6 Corvette that puts the current Porsche to bed and is an A-pillar away from the 2009... but who's counting?

Source: http://www.autoblog.com/2008/06/18/p...e-on-the-ring/

8 seconds a lap between the dual clutch vs manual. Only 4 seconds between manual and auto. That's twice the advantage from going auto to manual.

Technology fucking rocks!

[redline]

I guess he did not have mad shiftin sKiLlzzzZ...lol

SMG/DSG 4 Life shifting gears just plain sucks

[Ben]

My next car is a DSG for sure. I dont care what anyone says, after having driven cars with DSG for the last couple years, it's amazing, in every single way.

Audis have heavy clutches, and when you're stuck on deerfoot for hours on end, it gets to be pretty brutal.

[schocker]

Originally posted by rage2
8 seconds a lap between the dual clutch vs manual. Only 4 seconds between manual and auto. That's twice the advantage from going auto to manual.

Technology fucking rocks!

these transmissions are getting more and more impressive. even though manual is still alot of fun to drive, the autos are getting faster and faster.

[heavyD]

Originally posted by redline
I guess he did not have mad shiftin sKiLlzzzZ...lol

SMG/DSG 4 Life shifting gears just plain sucks

I wouldn't say shifting gears manually sucks as it does give you a more connected feel to the powertrain. The DSG, PDK, TC-SST, etc are the future for performance automobiles but there will always be the traditionalists that prefer to row through the gears themselves.

IMO if your car is a daily driver in a city the twin clutch automatics really do offer the best of both worlds. I plan on picking up an EVO X MR within the next couple of years for the transmission alone.

[max_boost]

I'm getting annoyed with having to shift all the time in my 5 speed. Never driven a car with DSG or SMG etc. but does it operate like a tiptronic? In the sense where you use a paddle or knob to shift up or down?

[schocker]

Originally posted by max_boost
I'm getting annoyed with having to shift all the time in my 5 speed. Never driven a car with DSG or SMG etc. but does it operate like a tiptronic? In the sense where you use a paddle or knob to shift up or down?

yes, most have paddles and shift knob operation. i liked pretending to be driving a manual when it was really smg.

[max_boost]

Can you drive it like a regular automatic if you are so lazy that you don't even want to 'shift'?

[The_Rural_Juror]

Yes you can, sir.

[heavyD]

Originally posted by max_boost
Can you drive it like a regular automatic if you are so lazy that you don't even want to 'shift'?

Yes. In fact the EVO X MR laps faster with the transmission in full automatic S-sport mode than with a driver shifting via the paddles.

[max_boost]

So in other words, advanced technology, perfect shifts every time, everything equal (driver, car), DSG/SMG > Manual.

Nice.

There will always be those who prefer to roll through their own gears. I'm not one of them.

*Rushes to VW to test drive GTI*

[Eleanor]

What about launching though?

[rage2]

Both my GTI and M3 have launch control. Perfect launches too! LOL

[heavyD]

Originally posted by Eleanor
What about launching though?

The GTR's has a launch mode and I'm not sure about the DSG, TC-SST, etc.

[max_boost]

Originally posted by rage2
Both my GTI and M3 have launch control. Perfect launches too! LOL

WTF! That's PERFECT. Perfect runs at the track, every time!!

[Supa Dexta]

I see a lot more high hp dsm's going auto these days as well.

[Eleanor]

Originally posted by rage2
Both my GTI and M3 have launch control. Perfect launches too! LOL

Are they basically: hold the brake, rev them up, the computer holds the revs at the sweet spot, then release the brake and off you go?

[rage2]

Well I wouldn't say perfect. I believe the GT-R's launch control does limit wheelspin for a perfect launch. I know the new SL63's launch control does that too. On the GTI and M3, both have traction control off to do launches. From 0 to about 3000rpm it's a perfect launch and you have to back up the throttle just a hair at about 4000rpm to 5000rpm to reduce spin in the GTI. On the M3 it pulsates the throttle to limit wheelspin in 1st which works really well with the turbo, but 2nd gear is still useless at anything over 60% throttle. With a little bit of practice, I can nail 9 out of 10 launches no problems now.

My biggest problem was the perfect amount of clutch slip off the line, where I'd be 50% successful with my left foot on a cluctch. Launch control takes care of the most inconsistent part for me.

[rage2]

Originally posted by Eleanor
Are they basically: hold the brake, rev them up, the computer holds the revs at the sweet spot, then release the brake and off you go?

For the GTI, yes. For the M3 SMG, there's 2 launch modes.

1. Clutch slip launch mode. DSC off, enable S6 transmission mode. Come to a stop in 1st, hold the SMG stick up (as in upshift). Floor it, but don't enable the kickdown button. When ready, let go of the SMG stick and off you go.

2. Clutch dump launch mode. Same as above, except when flooring it from a stop, go all the way, engaging the kickdown button.

I'm sure it's a different process for each car. The SL63 has a pretty involving process much like the M3.

[blownz]

Originally posted by rage2
haha, thought I'd bring this debate back on the table. A lot of guys still believe manuals are fastest, giving the driver the most control.

I don't think anyone ever said manuals are fastest. Just some of us still prefer to shift ourselves because we feel more involved and think it is more fun. For myself anyway this is the case. Even when I drove an M3 with smg, even though I was impressed with the shifts when driving hard, when driving normally I couldn't help but feel like I was an old man driving a caddilac around. I just prefer to do it myself. Especially for my probably 80% regular daily driving, 19% very spirited daily driving and 1% (or less) track use.

And these really good 'auto' tranny's are only available on select cars. So for the majority of cars out there, the manual is the better choice period.

Either way, these transmissions are definitely getting more and more impressive. I will need to try out some more though since my only experience is with the smg.