camless technology for internal combustion engines

[J Geer]

Subject: camless technology

My name is Justin Geer I have a revolutionary patent pending device(s) that will CONTROL AND ALLOW valves in an internal combustion engine to open without cams but with electromechanical valves, via an electrical signal. Please visit my website.YOU WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED. This is the future for internal combustion engines. The site is easy to manuever and is very comprehensible. Please pass the link. The sooner this gets to production, the sooner society will benefit from its technology.Any help to connect to the manucturer is appreciated.Thank you for your time.Sincerely Justin Geer.
http://www.vvt.150m.com

[sxtasy]

Is this an idea, or has been fabricated and tested on an engine??

[Ashkente]

Looks like just an idea to me...but doesn't a patent require a working prototype? And, isn't the hard part about camless operation the actual movment of the valves? (ie, selenoid style, etc...)

[sandman]

will there be any difference in the power?

[sandman]

also it says its starterless on ur site? elaborate?

[5.9 R/T]

This has been done before by one of the major auto makers, it's not really a new idea, just no car to my knowledge has been produced using it. It would remove considerable mass and friction so power would be up when compared to a similar engine with a cam(s). As well allowing a computer to precisely control the amount the valve opens and it's duration, with infinite variations of the two would certainly make a car's motor more versatile.

[sxtasy]

Originally posted by sandman
also it says its starterless on ur site? elaborate?

Their is a section about the starterless engine. Read up

[rage2]

It seems while solenoids are now fast enough to support up to 12,000rpm accurately, we are still waiting for computer processing power to become more powerful, smaller, and less expensive. It is a large number of calculations that are required for a cars computer to effectively control all valve movement independently.

You got it backwards... there's more than enough computing power to manage the valve train at high revs... there's no solenoid accurate and fast enough and reliable enough to do the job. That's why there's no camless valvetrains yet.

[T5_X]

Originally posted by rage2

You got it backwards... there's more than enough computing power to manage the valve train at high revs... there's no solenoid accurate and fast enough and reliable enough to do the job. That's why there's no camless valvetrains yet.

which is why the experiments are all now being done on lower revving engines, like turbo diesels. I should expect we see this technology being used on diesel vehicles within the next 5 years

[GTS Jeff]

[tulit]

I dont get it. Is there like a CD player for each valve or something? hahaha

[J Geer]

you are all wasting your own time, but a few of you seem to get it . it is very simple. if you read just the first page you have not learned enough. example could you elaborate on the startless operation, i already did so read the website and you will know this. thanks to the person who helped the other guy find that it was posted on my webpage(starterless elaboration). and that IS a big NEGATIVE on the computer part. why do you think it is not made yet. how often has your $1000 dollar computer messed up on you. would you want to put your computer in your engine and trust it. no. so we have problems in determining exactly where the engine is (more specifically the crankshaft and where it is exactly located when turning with a variety of loads). you must know the basics to understand camless technology, i explain most on my website ,so read the whole thing before you comment because you are not understanding. maybe you are the type of person who has to see it to believe it . bottom line it works. i know some of you understand it, and i believe that you know this is the future, but for the rest of you, if you have read my entire site and still don't get it then you need to find a new hobby or new forum board. not trying to be rude but damn some of the responses are pathetic and i'm sure that you others who understand it could easily(hopefully) get them to understand it. read it! www.vvt.150m.com

[5.9 R/T]

If I send you 50 cents and Daimler Chryslers 1 800 number will you shut up?

[Spenser]

lol

[rage2]

Originally posted by J Geer
how often has your $1000 dollar computer messed up on you. would you want to put your computer in your engine and trust it. no. so we have problems in determining exactly where the engine is (more specifically the crankshaft and where it is exactly located when turning with a variety of loads).

Not to rain on your parade, but my $25 bone stock Honda ECU in my Civic knows exactly where the crankshaft is at all loads and engine speeds, otherwise it'd get confused with fuel injection and spark timing.

[J Geer]

About that Honda computer, it may be cheap but your engine still has mechanical camshafts so the computer doesn't have to make up for the processing power needed for independent valves. You just wait and see that is all I have to say.

[rage2]

Originally posted by J Geer
About that Honda computer, it may be cheap but your engine still has mechanical camshafts so the computer doesn't have to make up for the processing power needed for independent valves. You just wait and see that is all I have to say.

Since I've reverse engineered a lot of the honda ECU code (the PM6 ecu to be exact), about 90% of the time the ECU is "sleeping" waiting for signalling firing of the injectors, as well as signalling the spark firing time at 10,000rpm.

If a reliable electromagnetic valve actuator was avaiable, it could be retrofitted to the car, delete the camshafts, and I'd have more than enough processing power to signal the valves to open and close. Hell, there'd be enough ecu time to look up a valve timing map, feed it through a formula for improving the valve timing and duration based on all the sensor readings, calculate lag time on valve opening/closing based on current engine speed, and trigger 16 valves to open and close in relations to the crank sensor signal. All this from a ECU designed in the mid 80's and costs $25 to buy from ebay. Today's ECU's (Bosch Motronic ME7.1 for example, using the Siemens C16x family microcontroller) is about 100x more powerful than the PM6 ecu. GM's Delco ECU's control not just engine functions, but everything else in the car, HVAC, lighting, etc.

If you're looking for someone to put together a software package for you to accomplish what I've described, I'm available under contract .

[littledan]

^^^^wow!!! could you program my vcr?? :p

[alloroc]

I dunno.

I think this is the first time Rage and I have agreed on anything but he's right.


I trust my 1000 dollar computer more than I do my 200 dollar CD player, I would hate to see what happens every time it 'skips' when I hit a pothole.

The ideas discussed on that web are very interesting indeed and I am sure there may be uses for it, but I honestly can't think of any. (other than the already patented technology to track the rpm of audio cd's and cdroms)

I understand electric/electronic cams are the way of the future and will be implemented sooner than later. Reflective digital laser (AKA, CD - CDrom) optics for valve timing however isn't in the future for automotive applications. The reason this technology won't fly is that there are three other *very* reliable time proven techologies for cam triggering that can time cam solenoids that you may have overlooked.

One, a mechanical distributor.
Two, a hall effect sensor.
Three, electronic eye.
(and yes the electronic eye can be controlled by a reflector, just look at any industrial machinery balancer or tachometer, no patent needed.)

These devices time events that are just as important and precise as a valve. *Ignition timing and injector timing* and the events they fire are controlled and adjusted just fine -by computer-

Good luck.

Oh ya,

I would never trust a company that gives me a fckunig* popup on every page of their web and then tries to load unsolicited software, gator, on my machine.

*I liked that interesting study thread.

[rage2]

The goal of all this discussion is simple... infinately variable valve timing and lift control. BMW has already accomplished this mechanically and reliabliy with their Valvetronic motors. They have no throttle body... the intake valves open at any time, and lift opens for however long they want, to determine how much air is allowed in the engine. Technical description can be found here :

http://www.bmwworld.com/technology/valvetronic.htm

Very friggin' cool. Next step obviously is Double Valvetronic... full variable valve timing and lift on both intake and exhaust valves.

As for moving to electromagnetic valve actuators, really, is there a need? BMW has proven that a mechanical system works very well, and the loss in power from driving the mechanical bits is very minimal. Here's an article talking about EVA's and how they don't work very well in an F1 or high RPM environment :

http://www.grandprix.com/ft/ftpw012.html

Mercedes-Benz already has a EVA prototype and tons of tech papers written on the subject :

http://www.carenthusiast.com/news2808/merc_4.htm

Pretty old news. Like I said, I'm not trying to slam you here, Just trying to point out what's out there, so maybe you can direct your efforts in other areas.