Basement Development

[2.2vtec]

A buddy of mine wanted to develop his walkout basement cause his mother from another country is coming to live with the family for a few years.

He wanted to include a kitchen as part of his development but was told that he cannot put a stove because its illegal but can put a fridge, microwave, and dishwasher.

Is this true?

[Grogador]

AFAIK having appliances makes it a separate suite, which needs certain permits and probably a little extra tax rape. Doesn't stop many, many, MANY people from having illegal suites however...

[barmanjay]

depends wherehe lives

pm me his addy and i can tell you what he can do

[frozenrice]

When you apply for the permit disguise the plans so that it looks like a laundry/sewing/hobby room. Where the stove goes mark it as a dryer location. The key is the inspector is going to look for a 220v outlet and as long as they don't know it's for a stove, you'll be fine. The way to get around that is to label it as the dryer.

[barmanjay]

Cabinets on castors, sink with quick connects, lots of things you can do - from what I hear

[2.2vtec]

Originally posted by frozenrice
When you apply for the permit disguise the plans so that it looks like a laundry/sewing/hobby room. Where the stove goes mark it as a dryer location. The key is the inspector is going to look for a 220v outlet and as long as they don't know it's for a stove, you'll be fine. The way to get around that is to label it as the dryer.

Would look a little obvious if you have a sink, small fridge and then a spot marked washer dryer..Is it that difficult to get a permit?

Is it find to just put a fridge, microwave, kitchen style cabinets and no stove?


Suggestions please.

[frozenrice]

Originally posted by 2.2vtec


Would look a little obvious if you have a sink, small fridge and then a spot marked washer dryer..Is it that difficult to get a permit?

Is it find to just put a fridge, microwave, kitchen style cabinets and no stove?


Suggestions please.

It's not hard to get a permit, but there are some loopholes that you may have to go through.
The city gets picky (and suspicious) if they see anything that MAY resemble a kitchen, especially if your neighbourhood isn't zoned to have basement suites. The main thing that will set off any alarms is the prescence of a 220v outlet, which usually implies it's for a stove. That's why I suggested labelling that 220v outlet for a dryer. They'll more likely accept a dryer outlet vs. a stove outlet in a situation like this. This way on paper you can still have a 220v outlet as part of your permit. If you don't mention anything about a 220v outlet and the inspector finds it when thy come to inspect it, that'll raise red flags and you'll end up with a failed inspection and bunch or red tape to get everything straightened out. They won't question the sink as it can easily be regarded as a utility sink and the fridge spot can easily be called up as an upright feezer, wine chiller or something like that.

Good luck.

[barmanjay]

you can build a "bar" with a bar sink

small bar fridge, wine cooler and small upright deep freeze in the bar cabinets

as for stove,.. I would put in a glass panel cook top sunken in or have a portable electric top.

Lots of options

[Whiley]

some good suggestions there, the first thing he should do is check on his specific address, to see if his house is properly zoned for a suite
however that doesn't mean he can't just apply for a basement renovation (intended for private use)
think of it as permitting to finish the basement (private use), then later deciding to make it livable for his m-in-law

a search by address can be done on line, the city of calgary website
http://dmzwww2.gov.calgary.ab.ca/fai...rchOptions.asp

remember that the inspector is only going to be there once or twice, before the drywall goes up, to give final sign-off on the electrical and plumbing

since he's not developing it as a revenue property suite, then he can re-fit (bring in kitchen appliances) it after renovations easily

in my experience, the easiest is to develop a room (later to be a kitchen/kitchenette) as a "craft/hobby+laundry room" (as suggested ^^), that way a 220 plug for electric dryer is expected (dryer + washer space to later become stove+fridge space), counter/cabinets and a sink also will then be expected

the key is to be clear & convince the inspector that it is for private use only, do this at the start during renovation permit application

no one needs to know that his m-in-law is later on coming & staying there
after inspection the home owner can do as he likes, no one will know the difference

i'll PM you some pics of similar reno work, that you can pass along

Originally posted by 2.2vtec
A buddy of mine wanted to develop his walkout basement cause his mother from another country is coming to live with the family for a few years.

He wanted to include a kitchen as part of his development but was told that he cannot put a stove because its illegal but can put a fridge, microwave, and dishwasher.

Is this true?

[E-MARK]

Originally posted by frozenrice
When you apply for the permit disguise the plans so that it looks like a laundry/sewing/hobby room. Where the stove goes mark it as a dryer location. The key is the inspector is going to look for a 220v outlet and as long as they don't know it's for a stove, you'll be fine. The way to get around that is to label it as the dryer.

eXCELLENT iDEA! Be creative and think about the future.

Originally posted by barmanjay
Cabinets on castors, sink with quick connects, lots of things you can do - from what I hear

That's the way you do it! Be sneaky!

Originally posted by barmanjay
you can build a "bar" with a bar sink

small bar fridge, wine cooler and small upright deep freeze in the bar cabinets

as for stove,.. I would put in a glass panel cook top sunken in or have a portable electric top.

Lots of options

Keep an open mind!

In reality, the bylaw people will bust an illegal basement suite on an outside report or complaint only. If you are going to live up and rent down, you really have nothing to fear.
You will be there to be on top of anything that might prompt neighbors to phone in a complaint and they are less likely to tattle on a live-in homeowner.
Be careful to who you rent to. The complaints usually come from neighbours that are tired of $h1t he@ds living next to them and causing problems. Your M.I.L. isn't a bad-a$$ is she?
Complaints are directed to properties reflecting 'slum-lord' like owners. Be a good landlord and yo have nothing to worry about.
I have properties that have 'non-conforming' suites in Calgary and have been making money with them since 2001. No problems! Remember to think about the future possibilities when your creating the MIL suite.
Good Luck!

[canuckcarguy]

I once wired 220 into a basement wall for the stove, but just buried it in the drywall and didn't uncover it or tie it into the panel until after the inspection.

Of course, you could also just develop the basement without a permit, as long as you trust your contractor or have some good construction experience yourself.

[barmanjay]

Originally posted by canuckcarguy
...
Of course, you could also just develop the basement without a permit, ........

Mr. Holmes would have a field day with you!!!

Infact the Inspector that caught Mr. Holmes without permits would have an even bigger field day with you (whom is my client - and is now inspecting in calgary)

[ianmcc]

When we did our basement the clerk at City Hall made sure I had labelled our plans "bar sink" and "bar fridge". A bar can include sinks, a fridge, cabinets, all the things a "kitchen" would include.
And as far as burying 220 wire in the drywall for "future expansion" well I think it's more common than you think!

[liquid1010]

How can you find out if a place is zoned for a basement suite?

[hampstor]

Hypothetically - if the building/dev permit didnt allow for a kitchen and the house went up in flames because of the 'illegal suite', would the insurance even cover it?

[Zero102]

Nope, and you need to notify your house insurance about the work you are planning to perform since it can change your rates / void your coverage.

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by hampstor
Hypothetically - if the building/dev permit didnt allow for a kitchen and the house went up in flames because of the 'illegal suite', would the insurance even cover it?

bingo

I care less about fines and more about liability. Last thing I want is get my own house and a few neighbors' burn down and be on the hook for it.

[badseed]

^^ Very True. I'm in a similar situation (potential live up/rent down scenario), I called an insurance company inquiring if "additional insurance" is required for 'non-comforming' MIL suites. I was told no added coverage was needed, plain and simple, I want to make at least 2 more calls to be sure.

I know MANY people in calgary have illegal MIL suites, they're def not uncommon. The only implication I can see are, outside complaints.