need legal advice on condo bylaw/board issues

[nonlinear]

Hi,

we had a satellite dish installed on our condo balcony about 2 months ago. It is mounted on the side of our balcony, on the little concrete wall/railing thingy. We had it mounted in the same manner as the residents below us, who have had a dish mounted this way for several years. we checked the condo bylaws before installing the dish, and the only regulations pertaining to sat dishes are size (and we are under the maximum size).

anyhow, we received a letter yesterday stating that the balconies are 'common areas' and that we need to remove the dish and repair any damage within 10 days (NOT business days) from the date the letter was written (22 sept), or they will hire a contractor to come do it and will charge us for it.

As I mentioned, the people below us have a dish mounted exactly the same way as us, plus walking around the condo there are bird feeders, etc., that are mounted in 'common areas."

We plan to write an appeal letter and take pictures of all of this stuff, however we are curious about the 10 day thing. Can they legally enforce that deadline on us without us being able to appeal their decision? This rule was implemented recently, and isn't in our copy of the bylaws.

Also, I was reading somewhere that condo bylaws must be registered with alberta housing (or whatever it's called) or they are not legally binding. does anyone know what the association is that keeps these on file, and how I can get a copy? what about ammendments to the bylaws -- do these also need to be registered in order to be legally binding?

[dannie]

Basically, when you live in a condo, the board has you by the balls. Your by-laws are not registered with an association, but rather they are registered on the condo plan. You are required to follow all the by-laws that are listed. The set you have may be old and there may be amendments to them. You can go to a registry and have them pull your by-laws for you.

In regards to the satellite thing, generally speaking, balconies are considered exclusive use common area. However, they are still governed under the same by-laws. The people below you may have gotten approval from the board to put the satellite up. The by-laws may have changed. Your first step will be to obtain current by-laws.

As far as enforcing the letter, yes. They have every right to come in and take it down. There is a portion in every condo by-laws that state the place must look the same.

I would suggest contacting the management company and letting them know (calmly) that you are appealing this as the neighbor below has the same thing. The condo manager may be able to quote the section of the by-law that applies. In fact, there should be a referrence in your letter about which by-law you are not abiding by.

Get your by-laws and let me know what they say and I can tell you if there is any recourse.

[barmanjay]

i vaguely remember case-law about this during the Mount Royal courses.

your satellite dish is mounted on common area.

I would suggest taking the dish off and possibly having it mounted on a tripod on your balcony.

Then look into your by-laws as stated above

[Recca168]

You may want to check with your neighbours downstairs too and see if they got the same notice. This happened to a buddy of mine at his old condo. One day out of the blue they just request all dishes be removed.

Putting it on a tripod should get you around it, although you lose a bit of space on your balcony

[tm88]

Talking with people is going to be your best bet...
Call the condo board and ask for more time and anything else you need then speak with your neighbor.

[Mixalot27]

Condo Bylaws must be registered with Alberta Land Titles to be legally binding. In order for the Condo Board to make amendments to the current bylaws they must present the proposed changes to all owners for 14 days to review, at which point 75% of owners must sign a form approving the new bylaws and then they must register them with land titles. You can check to see whats registered and order a copy for $5 online:

http://www.servicealberta.gov.ab.ca/588.cfm

Click on the spin system and then I think you go to registered titles and then condo documents or something like that. You need to know your condo's registered plan number which is around an 8 or 9 digit number. This site only seems to work with Internet Explorer and not Firefox. Or easier yet just call Alberta Land Titles and ask them if their are any bylaws registered for your condo. If so ask them to walk you through how to order them online. That Spin site is sort of confusing and difficult to navigate.

If no bylaws are registered with Alberta Land Titles then your Condo is governed by the default bylaws of the Alberta Condo Property Act, Appendix 1, which can be found here:

http://www.qp.gov.ab.ca/Documents/acts/C22.CFM

If your Condo has registered bylaws, they probably will contain a provision allowing them to fine you for infractions. If you don't pay these fines they can file a caveat on your title which means you cannot sell your place until these fines and applicable fees and interest have been paid.

If your Condo doesn't have any registered bylaws and is governed by the Alberta Condo Property Act, appendix 1, then they cannot levy fines against you for bylaw infractions. I know in your case they haven't threatened to fine you, however they may decide to if you don't comply as its an easier way to compel you to remove the dish, then actually going to the effort of finding someone to hire to remove it.

However even under the default Condo Property Act bylaws you still require written permission from the condo board to make any alterations to the common property. As well there is this provision, "An owner shall not hang or place on the real property of the corporation or the common property or within or on a unit anything that is, in the opinion of the board, esthetically unpleasing when viewed from outside the units". And if your Condo has its own bylaws they will also contain these provisions, I'm sure.

So yes they can remove the satellite dish and charge you for the expense. Which depending on how accessible your dish is from the outside, they may do. If your dish is really high up or hard to get to they will have a difficult time doing this and may not bother. In that case they may serve you with a "right of entry" which is a demand for you to allow them into your condo and onto your balcony to remove the dish. If you ignore this they can go before a judge and get a court order allowing them access. Whether your Condo Board is willing to go to these kind of lengths to get rid of the dish is questionable but they can if they choose to.

Check with your neighbor who also has the dish mounted on their balcony to see if they have gotten a notice or if they had gotten the board's permission previous to mounting the dish. Short of your bylaws containing some type of grandfather clause, they cannot practice "selective enforcement", meaning they have to treat all violators the same.

My advice to you is to try to reach a compromise with your Condo Board. See if they will allow you to mount the dish on a tripod on your balcony. A tripod can be bought for under $50. If they will let you do this then that is probably your best bet instead of pissing off your condo board and going through what could be a lengthy and expensive battle. Also if your satellite is through Bell and you have signed a contract, you can get out of the contract by having your condo board sign a letter saying dishes are no longer allowed, if worse comes to worse and they will not even let you have it on a Tripod. Then Shaw digital cable becomes pretty much your only option.

Disclaimer: I'm not a lawyer or anything. I've just been through a similar situation and this is my understanding from my own research as well as a brief consultation with a lawyer.

[nonlinear]

thanks for all the help guys! i'll be getting a tripod

[cmyden]

Same thing happened to me, so now instead of a nice, hidden, professionally mounted satellite, I have a satellite mounted to a post sitting in a concrete bucket on my patio!

Ah well, makes snow removal easier anyways

[barmanjay]

Remember in a condo,.. you don't own the building,.. you own shares in the corporation designated to that building that give you "exclusive rights" to a unit and the right to use an "exclusive use common area"

[It's all I got]

condo's are a nightmare

[snoop101]

I had this issue when I put my mountain bike out there for like 2 days and the fascist dictator whos on the condo board got the management company to send me a letter right away.

The thing I hate about your story and mine is the fact that there was no professional letter sent to you as a "warning" asking you kindly to remove it. These companies have these letters that give you a small amount of time and most letters are usually threatening. IMO I think that a lot of it is that they make so much money off of these things. Most caveats are around $1000 and if you want to fight it there will usually be another $400-$500 in lawyer fees if you drag it out. I was in that situation and it really sucks.

[nonlinear]

yea, i think i'd rather live in a trailer park than in a condo LOL

or is that the same deal?

[Thaco]

they don't mind if you mount the dish (obviously because the guy below has one) but they want you to ask permission first.

[barmanjay]

Originally posted by nonlinear
yea, i think i'd rather live in a trailer park than in a condo LOL

or is that the same deal?

Kinda the same deal

you own the trailer,.. but not the land,.. and you have to ask for permission on anything to do with that.

Many trailer parks also have rules/restrictions on the care/appearance of your trailer as well.

[Kloubek]

Sometimes, it can be as easy as just asking permission first. I'm on my board, and as long as the owner does it properly and is willing to put up a small deposit for repairing the damage when the owner moves, then we will allow it. Otherwise, we too would be likely to tell an owner to remove it or face a fine.

As has been said in this thread, just because it's your balcony doesn't make it your ownership.