Unions - For or Against

[nesterFortune]

All of this bailout talk now revolving around the auto industry, what are your opinions on UNIONS?? Have they bit the hand that FEEDS them? Or are they still looking out for the good guys?

[97'Scort]

If they want to make a product nobody wants, that's their problem. I shouldn't have to bail them out for screwing up. Hell, the government won't give me a student loan because I own a car.

Unions don't protect the common man. They are lobby groups for an industry and nothing more. They take and take, but all they really want is your money.

When I went to school at NAIT, I got hired to work as a computer lab monitor for minimum wage. Basically I sat in a lab and did my homework and made sure people didn't steal the computers. Pretty sweet gig.

Little did I know by getting a job there (this wasn't even in the employment agreement they gave me), I automatically joined AUPE, who helped themselves to $25/paycheque, which was only a $75 paycheque to begin with. Fuck the bastards.

Plus, all the field guys I've ever worked with who are non-union always seem much happier and much more likely to do what you'd like them to.

[yue]

unions = bad company management

[skyline19]

im part of the Local 170 pipe fitters union in the kootenays and i haven't had any trouble so far. when i moved here from Calgary i HATED unions but i was forced into one with my new job.

not gonna lie its been great thus far. Before when i wasn't in a union i was working straight time for 50+ hours a week, and if i was sick i just wouldn't get paid. Now i actually get paid what I'm worth including overtime and I have sick leave.

Now that i know what unionized life is like i would never go back to a non-union company. yeah paying them $75 a paycheck sucks for me but im just helping by contributing.

[97'Scort]

^ I will agree that for the tradespeople in contract positions, Union life is probably easier. But for a shop or plant environment where you're a part of the company, then I disagree.

[pinoyhero]

unions = death to incentive to succeed

[fcukda]

unions are like communism, they sound good on paper but fail in real life. productivity is much lower, and they force company to keep useless people around.

[pinoyhero]

^ I disagree ... they don't sound good on paper

[Antonito]

It depends on the union, some are rather benign, and just do what they were supposed to, which is protect the union members from exploitation. But of course there are lots that are hellish bureaucracies that need complete overhauls, top to bottom.

I still say we should keep unions though, because although right now worker rights are pretty good, all it would take is a decade or 2 of heavy corporation-friendly government to make things go to shit, and then starting unions back up would be a very hard battle.

As far as the auto unions specifically, yeah, they needed to be more flexible given the reality of the situation. It's all well and good to point out the other reasons why things are failing, but at the end of the day, it is what it is.

[theken]

unions dont force companies to keep useless people around, people are so far out about unions.

I am at lafarge, teamsters, they just fired 2 people one of which was useless and the other had been there for 7 years.

the union takes around 50 a month but give us the best benefits you can get, a pension that after 20 years you take home the same amount that you normally make on a cheque and numerous other things.

I got screwed out of a day because someone junior to me worked and i didn't, i tell the union bam 12 hours on my next cheque.

I was against unions before i was in one, because i was uninformed i wouldn't go to a non union job (in my industry) again.

[pinoyhero]

Originally posted by theken
unions dont force companies to keep useless people around, people are so far out about unions.

I am at lafarge, teamsters, they just fired 2 people one of which was useless and the other had been there for 7 years.

the union takes around 50 a month but give us the best benefits you can get, a pension that after 20 years you take home the same amount that you normally make on a cheque and numerous other things.

I got screwed out of a day because someone junior to me worked and i didn't, i tell the union bam 12 hours on my next cheque.

I was against unions before i was in one, because i was uninformed i wouldn't go to a non union job (in my industry) again.

I have a question ... how long did the firing process take and what sort of settlement was LaFarge forced to pay?

Also, the union doesn't give you benefits, they bargain with LaFarge and LaFarge gives you benefits. There is no guarantee that your union's bargaining and $50 charge gets you more than you could in a non-union environment by outperforming others that having companies offer you better packages to keep you.

And let me get this straight ... the union is using other members' $50 to pay you because someone who wanted to work more than you (probably for less pay) got to?

Guess it works out though, you no longer have to worry about trying to excel since you've got some level of seniority. Trouble for industry and society is that you having your incentive stripped away is terribly inefficient. Just imagine how prodictive society would be if everyone had a reason to try.

[Tik-Tok]

Unions had their time, and place, years ago. Before we had government Labour Laws, back when people were working in HORRID conditions, with no regard for safety, and for negligible pay.

Now they're just another money-grubbing company out for their own interests, not their "members".

[msommers]

Originally posted by pinoyhero
unions = death to incentive to succeed

This. I couldn't believe how fucking lazy union works are when I worked up north. Everything should handed to them on a silver platter or "I'm going to the union, it says this in our union contract" blah blah blah. Meanwhile, I was also in a union but they did fuck all except "look into the problem" which was a genuine matter. Even since then I've sworn to never work for a company that has a union again.

[Eleanor]

Originally posted by Tik-Tok
Unions had their time, and place, years ago. Before we had government Labour Laws, back when people were working in HORRID conditions, with no regard for safety, and for negligible pay.

During the industrial revolution, we needed unions, now we don't.

[vipstyle2]

Depends on the industry, wtf ? communism. what are you marxist ? If I were a rich banker in china i'd love communism.
If I were sick in the states and went to Cuba and couldnt afford health car or insurance do to huge hikes in cost's id LOVE communism. But union's, it depends on the industry really. It WAS thier choice to work for factory's with gas guzzling, non selling vehicles. Bail them out ?
I dont think so.. But there's proabably a shit load of employee's in the industry and they'll probably get it thier way rather than find a new job eles where like a smarter family would do.

[Canmorite]

I've heard that some union workers are getting outrageous pay to assemble cars. They helped drive GM and Ford into the ground with their pay and benefits scheme.

Talk about killing the golden goose.

[schocker]

I used to think they were ok, but after digging depper into it and taking a look at pay scales for example for the next few years, some of the increases in pay are percentages that a non union person would never dream of seeing and the companies have to build this into their costs.

[theken]

Originally posted by pinoyhero


I have a question ... how long did the firing process take and what sort of settlement was LaFarge forced to pay?

And let me get this straight ... the union is using other members' $50 to pay you because someone who wanted to work more than you (probably for less pay) got to?

Guess it works out though, you no longer have to worry about trying to excel since you've got some level of seniority. Trouble for industry and society is that you having your incentive stripped away is terribly inefficient. Just imagine how prodictive society would be if everyone had a reason to try.

Lafarge had to pay me for not working because they did not schedule me in, the union goes to the boss and tell them they were in the wrong. and nobody wants to work more than me, i got in 77 hours this week.

the firing process was instant with no settlement, there was a circumstance where they broke the rules, which i had no idea were even rules and they were fired, have not been back

There is no excelling when you are a truck driver, you do your job and do it the way it is suppose to be done. I do stuff beyond my job description such as last night, at 8 o'clock, my boss asks me if i could take another trip downtown, i had already been working for 13 hours, i said i don't really want to but if you need me to i will. thats the most excelling that goes on.

our union fights for our rights, not the wrongs, if you are an idiot you get fired. you probably work in an office and have no insight to what unions actually do for people

*edit lafarge also own foothills and they get paid less and have less benefits, they are non union

[Rocky]

Originally posted by Eleanor



During the industrial revolution, we needed unions, now we don't.

Agree w/ this poster and poster's quoted poster.

I have to write a paper today on the biggest strike in Canadian history

[revelations]

Unions are great in certain industries/sectors - but their time has probably come for a lot of areas.

Our economy (Canada) is moving into a knowledge-based workforce which will make unions less and less desirable in some cases.