Air Canada = worst airline

[khtm]

In case someone missed it the first time, this article PERFECTLY sums up the difference between AC and WJ.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNew...229?hub=Canada

The Consumers Association of Canada says they've received more than 200 complaints from travellers over the past week about flight cancellations and delays that disrupted their Christmas holidays.

CAC spokesperson Bruce Cran told CTV's Canada AM on Monday many of the complaints were from frustrated Air Canada passengers. Snowstorms and bad weather across the country last week forced airlines to reduce service or cancel dozens of flights. On Christmas Eve, Air Canada cancelled all short- and medium-haul flights to and from Vancouver for the day. Long delays also left passengers stranded in airports across Canada.

"They're complaining in one case that they took 24 hours to get from Vancouver to Toronto, with 12 hours on the tarmac," Cran said.

He said the complaints have ranged from customers upset about being charged again for a rescheduled flight to anger over lost baggage and staff rudeness.

The number of complaints -- which were still coming in on Monday -- is astonishing, says Cran. He told CTV.ca the organization usually gets about two or three airline complaints a month, not the 200-plus they've received in a span of just a few days.

Cran said many unhappy Air Canada customers called the CAC just to praise the airline's competition.

"About one quarter of the calls we had were not complaints at all. They were crediting WestJet with pulling Air Canada's chestnuts out of the fire by helping people get on WestJet flights when they couldn't be accommodated on Air Canada," he said.

Weather affects ALL airlines equally, but no surprise that WJ handles it with class and AC treats their passengers like shit.

No doubt all the AC fanboys in this thread have only flown like 5x in their life and had unusually good luck. For the rest of us that have flown hundreds of time, the difference between these two airlines is OBVIOUS.

[reiRei]

I was just going to mention the article in the Calgary Sun about that same discussion. Most people are complaining about how Air Canada handled that situation.

I flew air canada for a few trips this year, and the service was just merely okay, but when a seat sale went up for west jet, I figured I would give them a try.. and I've been flying west jet ever since.

[ZorroAMG]

Originally posted by khtm
In case someone missed it the first time, this article PERFECTLY sums up the difference between AC and WJ.

http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNew...229?hub=Canada


Weather affects ALL airlines equally, but no surprise that WJ handles it with class and AC treats their passengers like shit.

No doubt all the AC fanboys in this thread have only flown like 5x in their life and had unusually good luck. For the rest of us that have flown hundreds of time, the difference between these two airlines is OBVIOUS.

I have flown about 60 times in the last 6 months and I don't see a big difference. They both sorta suck ass.

[khtm]

^ I find that hard to believe unless you just aren't the most observant guy in the world.

The differences between their staff can be noticed everywhere from the ticket counter (if AC screws up it's the customers fault, not theirs), to the flight attendants ("fuck you, I'm not getting you a pillow or another water") to the customer service folks ("we've lost your luggage and unfortunately don't even know where the plane went after it dropped you off"). No doubt this attitude comes from the top down.

There's a lot of reasons that WJ is one of the if not the best financially positioned airline in North America right now. And one of them is NOT because they treat their customers like shit.

Heck, I had friends trapped in YVR over the holiday and while AC was telling their customers to take a hike, WJ was giving everyone free pizza and arranging for hotel rooms. This situation is echoed perfectly by the CTV article above.

Hopefully the government is finally taking notice. Maybe our tax dollars will stop being wasted on supporting such a bloated waste of space like AC.

[modded46]

Air Canada and ALL airlines in the "Star Alliance" blow..

Westjet is excellent and as far as US Airlines.. I've had good luck with Delta and Alaska Airlines.. Another good one I've flown a few times is American.. but that's usually a crap shoot. hahah


Again the biggest problem with Canada.. You have Air Canada and maybe Westjet if they fly where you wanna go which is really limited.. Unless you're coming to the US.. There are charters but that's even worse than Air Canada.. haha

[71/454]

Originally posted by khtm
^

Hopefully the government is finally taking notice. Maybe our tax dollars will stop being wasted on supporting such a bloated waste of space like AC.

Hmm, someone don't know shit, or they work at Westjet. Air Canada has been privately owned since 1988, and the Government has not given them a dime since. As a taxpayer concerned with where his money is going you should know this.
If you do work at Westjet, and I get the feeling you do, post the email from Sean Durfy, your ceo, about encouraging people who came from AC during the Vancouver storm to go and speak to the media about AC and tell them how bad the experience was. Westjet has an awesome PR machine, I'll give them that. I'd sell your shares now though, Westjet's costs for pizza and hotel rooms for the one week storm in Van cost in excess of 6 million. Happy profit sharing!

[S4maniac]

Originally posted by 71/454


Hmm, someone don't know shit, or they work at Westjet. Air Canada has been privately owned since 1988, and the Government has not given them a dime since. As a taxpayer concerned with where his money is going you should know this.
If you do work at Westjet, and I get the feeling you do, post the email from Sean Durfy, your ceo, about encouraging people who came from AC during the Vancouver storm to go and speak to the media about AC and tell them how bad the experience was. Westjet has an awesome PR machine, I'll give them that. I'd sell your shares now though, Westjet's costs for pizza and hotel rooms for the one week storm in Van cost in excess of 6 million. Happy profit sharing!

Uh, since you obviously know everything about Air Canada, how come I can publicly trade ACE shares in this "private" company.

... and I don't want to tell you your business since it you know everything, but the $2M (not $6M as you state) that Westjet spent on helping customers is barely a fart in the wind of their $50M quarterly profit.

You really should learn to pick your battles better.

[Lanks]

^ I'm pretty sure his point was just that AC has not recieved any government money since 1988, not wether or not they are public or private.

[A790]

Originally posted by Lanks
^ I'm pretty sure his point was just that AC has not recieved any government money since 1988, not wether or not they are public or private.

Thank you. I was sitting here goes "really, did that seriously fly over is head?"

[Toma]

I did not read this whole thread.....

But in the last year, I have flown on 21 airplanes.

Let me state for the record.... I THANK GOD every time I fly air Canada. Best Planes, most comfortable seats, best staff, and I LOVE the screens/movies/XM radio/AC and USB power etc on every seat. The comfort thing is important... the seats are different angle, and wider...makes all the difference since I am 6'1 and 240 pounds.

WestJet was good when they were cheap.... but now they are more expensive and don't fly anywhere lol. The US airlines suck fucking balls, some charge for pop AND luggage.

[Toma]

[S4maniac]

Originally posted by Lanks
^ I'm pretty sure his point was just that AC has not recieved any government money since 1988, not wether or not they are public or private.

Of course I know thats what he meant, but thats not what he wrote.

And for the record, Air Canada did receive $100M in government assistance in 2001. Westjet chose not to participate because they, in principle, don't want government involvement.

Its pretty obvious which airline is expanding and profitable vs which one stuck their head in the sand and dropped the PR ball big time over the holidays.

[old&slow]

I have 2 brothers that for different reasons this year won't fly AC again!

[khtm]

Originally posted by 71/454


Hmm, someone don't know shit, or they work at Westjet. Air Canada has been privately owned since 1988, and the Government has not given them a dime since. As a taxpayer concerned with where his money is going you should know this.
If you do work at Westjet, and I get the feeling you do, post the email from Sean Durfy, your ceo, about encouraging people who came from AC during the Vancouver storm to go and speak to the media about AC and tell them how bad the experience was. Westjet has an awesome PR machine, I'll give them that. I'd sell your shares now though, Westjet's costs for pizza and hotel rooms for the one week storm in Van cost in excess of 6 million. Happy profit sharing!

Yeah I'm a computer engineer that works at WestJet, because there's so many jobs for people like me.

I can honestly say that I have no alliance whatsoever to WJ, no do I have any friends or family that work for them. I've just flown a heck of a lot of have strong opinions about what's acceptable service from an airline, and have been treated like shit numerous times by AC. Some of my horror stories are posted earlier in this thread if you care to read back.

Originally posted by S4maniac
And for the record, Air Canada did receive $100M in government assistance in 2001. Westjet chose not to participate because they, in principle, don't want government involvement.

Its pretty obvious which airline is expanding and profitable vs which one stuck their head in the sand and dropped the PR ball big time over the holidays.

and it's true that since 2001 the government hasn't provided assistance to AC, but over the past 6 decades before that they were a taxpayer sinkhole. And I wouldn't be surprised if there was a bailout request during this recession.

[eljefe]

Originally posted by S4maniac


Of course I know thats what he meant, but thats not what he wrote.

What he wrote about Air Canada being a private company was exactly accurate. Air Canada is a privatized company, entirely. Shares of privatized companies are publicly traded on stock markets. The point khtm was trying to errantly make was that the government had some type of ownership in Air Canada, it doesn't and hasn't since pre 88.

[B17a]

Originally posted by eljefe


What he wrote about Air Canada being a private company was exactly accurate. Air Canada is a privatized company, entirely. Shares of privatized companies are publicly traded on stock markets.

Do you know WTF you are talking about? The definition of a public company is that their shares are traded on certain exchanges like the TSX. A true privately owned company's shares don't trade on an exchange. Going private means a public company's shares are bought up by a group or individual and the company is no longer listed on the exchange, nor has to file public documents on SEDAR.

From their last annual report, note the PUBLIC offering statement: In November 2006, Air Canada completed an initial public offering (the “Air Canada IPO”) of an aggregate 9,523,810 variable
voting shares and voting shares for gross proceeds of $200 million ($187 million net of offering costs of $13 million) and a
secondary offering by ACE Aviation Holdings Inc. (“ACE”) of an aggregate of 15,476,190 variable voting shares and voting
shares for gross proceeds of $325 million ($304 million net of offering costs of $21 million).

[71/454]

Originally posted by S4maniac


Of course I know thats what he meant, but thats not what he wrote.

And for the record, Air Canada did receive $100M in government assistance in 2001. Westjet chose not to participate because they, in principle, don't want government involvement.

Yes you are correct I forgot about that. Air Canada did get compensation for the airspace closure for the 2 days following 9/11, and Westjet did not want any.
My point, as it was made by others, following the sale of AC from the government Air Canada did not continually recieve government bailouts over the years like Canadian Airlines did. Everyone seems to get those confused.
It's no secret that Air Canada has been steadily declining in it's service since the fall of 99 and I too would not be surprised to see it falter as it is so badly managed.
The one difference that noone realises is that Air Canada is bound by the Air Canada act after deregulation. It basically states it must be headquartered in Quebec, must be fully bilingual in signage and spoken language, an extra expense. The big one is that it is mandated to fly certain routes whether it makes money on them or not. Westjet and other airlines can choose not to fly a route if it doesn't make money, Air Canada must provide service on these routes as it is obligated to by the law. There are some other things I can't remember though.

[Toma]

^^^^
The reason for the whole argument was cause a poster said
"Hopefully the government is finally taking notice. Maybe our tax dollars will stop being wasted on supporting such a bloated waste of space like AC. "
Which implied to me some a sort of government ownership/stake.

Public or Private is not relevant but came up as demonstrating that it is not crown owned, but rather is privately run, some of its shares trading on a public exchanges The government is not involved. Yes, by definition this is a publically traded company", but is not tax payer owned and operated.

However, in the spirit of the times, the government may chose to bailout essential companies that are required for Canada to stay a first world country.... like our banks, automakers or airlines.

In the end, Westjet fanboys fail to realize we could not survive on westjet alone. They fly only the profitable routes, have less flights, and are no longer cheaper.... Big difference.

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by khtm

before that they were a taxpayer sinkhole.

As much as I hate Air Canada, to be fair about the government ownership being a taxpayer sinkhole, it's because under the government, they had to fly to every place viable in Canada.

MOST of those routes were severely unprofitable, but they weren't allowed to stop flying to them, as it was government mandated.

[sillysod]

If you think air canada is bad you apparently haven't flown on US Airways....

With the exception of South West, the american airline companies are the most brutal. You have to pay cash at the check in to check 1 (not an extra one - your first) bag. WTF? Even coffee is $3.00 us.

Air Canada isn't really that bad compaired to them. However until you have has ever flown first class on Asiana or Korean. You haven't ever really flown.