So a BUM breaks into your house...

[LadyLuck]

Ok, I have a co-worker that is having some legal issues at the moment.

About 3 weeks ago, A homeless dude broke into her house.
Her roomate left the backdoor open and went to bed.
My co worker has a 3 year old daughter and shes got her own room, that night her daughter was with her dad and not at the house.

So its the middle of the night and she hears someone walking around the house.

She got up, went to the kitchen and grabbed a steel frying pan and walked around the house.

She found some homeless dude that entered her house in her daughters bedroom snooping thru shit. They both scared each other when they saw each other and he approached her, not knowing what his intentions were she smoked him with the frying pan right in the head a couple of times.

Needless to say, the Bum is now in the hospital and hes in a Coma, the cops were called but now they are pressing charges against HER for Assault.

How the hell does that work?

Just imagine if her kid was at home sleeping in her bed, and he walked right in there, god knows what could have happened.

She has a lawyer, but because buddy is still in a coma they cant do much but wait it out. Her lawyer said that he should be able to drop the charges as she did it in self defense and he was in her house but still...what if buddy doesnt wake up from the coma?

Thoughts?

[dr_jared88]

I don't know what really can be done. It's our stupid justice system we have here in Canada. It's the exact same thing if someone breaks into your house and your dog bites them. They can press charges on you even though they entered your house without permission. I wish your co-worker the best of luck.

[CausalInfluence]

if he doesnt wake up it will be manslaughter. She might want to invest in a really really good lawyer... like balfour der, or Charlie Stewart.

[ZorroAMG]

Ahhhhhh, Canada.

What should she do? Be proud. Then, uh, go to jail.

[300zxfairlday]

im guessing if he doesnt make it she will be charged with manslauter. Shoulod be a pretty easy fight in courth tho.

[CausalInfluence]

yeap.

Was she arrested? Hs she already seen the JP? Court date?

[lint]

For matters involving bums, best to consult with GTS Jeff

[DayGlow]

Wierd, self defence is self defence. The only thing I can think of is that there is evidence that she continued to hit him even once the threat is gone, ie continued to beat the guy even after he is unconcious. I've been to a lot of calls where the victim beats the crap out of the person who attacks them and I've never charged them.

[CausalInfluence]

Yes, However he is currently involved in a situation with a vagrant.. kritafo is rampant.

[Weapon_R]

Has she talked to the police yet? If she has and has admitted the story as you explained it, then she can very well be charged for using excessive force. If she felt as though he was charging at her when she hit him, she can argue use of reasonable force to incapacitate him.

I don't think it'll go to trial with a proper lawyer. If it does, a jury will rarely convict a person for what she did. The law does not allow you to attack anyone that comes onto your property, especially without knowing their intentions. In the states, she'd have been okay if she shot him dead, but in Canada the laws look to the reasonableness of the use of force.

[LadyLuck]

Originally posted by CausalInfluence
yeap.

Was she arrested? Hs she already seen the JP? Court date?

They didnt arrest her, just took a statement but told her that she might be charged. then a few days later did.
She talked to them and told them what happened, but because hes in a coma they cant charge him yet.

So if/when he wakes up, they can continue with this, until then she just has to play the waiting game.

Theres no court date set or anything.

[Kloubek]

Wow - crazy story. I would have done the same as her... or likely worse.

My understanding of Canadian law is that you have the right to use as much force as is necessary in order to protect yourself when threatened, but no more.

So, first of all, she has to prove that she was threatened. A guy simply in her house MAY not be enough, but that's the sort of thing you get a lawyer for. It likely ISN'T enough. If she says that the guy lunged at her or something like that, then she might have a better case. If she proves she was just defending herself, then the charges SHOULD be dropped.

As long as excessive force was not used.

Now, with this said, you say she hit him a COUPLE of times. This could be seen both ways. Perhaps she should have stopped the first time, and he would have been incapacitated without being in a coma. Or, perhaps the 2nd strike was required. If she hit him any more than that, it will become increasingly difficult to prove she absolutely needed to in order to defend herself. On the other hand, the fact she is a female against a male would help her case that she needed to take more than one whack at him to get him down.

It's a tricky situation. I do not blame her AT ALL for doing what she did, and it's simply unfortunate that our Canadian justice system so severely limits the ability of people to protect themselves, their family, and their home. However, I guess you need to draw the line somewhere to ensure people are not being killed (or put in a coma) without just cause.

Good luck to your friend!

[Supa Dexta]

You'd have to hit someone ALOT and HARD to put them in a coma with a regular frying pan.. I can see a cast iron one doing the trick, but then again it would take some strength to swing one of those.

[badatusrnames]

Originally posted by DayGlow
Wierd, self defence is self defence. The only thing I can think of is that there is evidence that she continued to hit him even once the threat is gone, ie continued to beat the guy even after he is unconcious. I've been to a lot of calls where the victim beats the crap out of the person who attacks them and I've never charged them.

How do you determine the threat is gone though? I mean, if someone is in my home, I'm going to make damn sure they are incapacitated and can't get up to retaliate. It's better to err on the side of caution. Not to mention, when faced with that type of situation, instinct is to protect oneself at all cost, not to ensure that a reasonable modicum of force is used.

As far as her getting charged with assault:



Where did the common sense go on this one? What else was she supposed to do? Make him a cup of coffee and over it they can discuss how she will give him all of her valuables?

Media would love this one. I mean, poor little, single girl defends herself from a man who has made his way into her home and she is charged with assault? Normally she would be made to be a hero.

[~Leah~]

Originally posted by badatusrnames


Media would love this one. I mean, poor little, single girl defends herself from a man who has made his way into her home and she is charged with assault? Normally she would be made to be a hero.

I agree... consider getting the media involved...

[atgilchrist]

I'm sure it will eventually be dismissed, but after due process is followed.

[bulaian]

Originally posted by Supa Dexta
You'd have to hit someone ALOT and HARD to put them in a coma with a regular frying pan.. I can see a cast iron one doing the trick, but then again it would take some strength to swing one of those.

not necessarily, 1-2 good hard strikes with a frying pans, with both hands on it could probably do the job.

put yourself in her position, some stranger in her house snooping through her daughters stuff late at night. in that situation, you're probably going to swing as hard as possible at the guy

[gretz]

Can i just go into anyones home and take a nap on their couch?

I am to understand they can not forcefully move me or physically hurt me if i am not causing a threat?

I have 2 massive dogs, if someone broke into my house, they would do some damage - can anyone justify what would happen if this case (BUM attacked by dogs)?

[TKRIS]

Judging by what you've posted, I'd say she'll be OK. Assuming she didn't keep smacking the shit out of unconcious guy until she saw blood coming out his ears, it sounds like a pretty clear case of self defence to me.

It's worth noting that this guy may well have had prior medical conditions that compounded the problem. That is to say, while it seems like a frying pan shouldn't have been able to drop this guy like that, his lifestyle and/or preexisting medical conditions may have made that entirely likely. I'd venture you'd have to smack my concrete dome a lot harder than the average nutjob junkie bum's to knock me unconscious.


In any event, give her a pat on the back from me. Let us know how it all works out.

[GREENBOY]

She has to milk it and really press that she feared for her life...there's a difference between being a bit scared and genuinely protecting your own life. The fact he appraoched her or came towards her is a good start...it all depends on 'how' he did it though and how it panned out (sorry for the pun) when she attacked him in terms of the force used.