The D3 - Detroit 3 Auto makers - Union Wages

[89coupe]

Quoted from Forbes::

Labor cost per hour, wages and benefits for hourly workers.

Ford: $70.51 ($141,020 per year)

GM: $73.26 ($146,520 per year)

Chrysler: $75.86 ($151,720 per year)

Toyota, Honda, Nissan (in U.S.): $48.00 ($96,000 per year)

According to AAUP and IES, the average annual compensation for a college professor in 2006 was $92,973 (average salary nationally of $73,207 + 27% benefits).

Bottom Line: The average UAW worker with a high school degree earns 57.6% more compensation than the average university professor with a Ph.D., and 52.6% more than the average worker at Toyota, Honda or Nissan.

Many industry analysts say the Detroit Three, must be on par with Toyota and Honda to survive. This year's contract, they say, must be "transformational" in reducing pension and health care costs.

What would "transformational" mean? One way to think about "transformational" would mean that UAW workers, most with a high school diploma, would have to accept compensation equal to that of the average university professor with a PhD.

Then there's the "Job Bank"

When a D3 (Detroit 3 carmaker) lays an employee off, that employee continues to receive all benefits - medical, retirement, etc., etc., PLUS an hourly wage of $31/hour.

Here's a typical story....

Ken Pool is making good money. On weekdays, he shows up at 7 a.m. at Ford Motor Co.'s Michigan Truck Plant in Wayne, signs in, and then starts working -- on a crossword puzzle. Pool hates the monotony, but the pay is good: more than $31 an hour, plus benefits.

"We just go in and play crossword puzzles, watch videos that someone brings in or read the newspaper," he says. "Otherwise, I just sit."

Pool is one of more than 12,000 American autoworkers who, instead of installing windshields or bending sheet metal, spend their days counting the hours in a jobs bank set up by Detroit automakers as demanded by the United Auto Workers Union - UAW - as part of an extraordinary job security agreement.

Now the D3 wants Joe Taxpayer to pick up this tab in a $25 Billion bailout package - soon to be increased to $45 Billion if Nancy Pelosi and Hillary Clinton have their way.

The "Big 3" want this money - not to build better autos. No. They want it to pay the tab for Medical and Retirement benefits for RETIRED auto workers. Not ONE PENNY would be used to make them more competitive, or to improve the quality of their cars.

We ALL have problems paying for our Medical Insurance - but the Democrat leaders in Congress now want us to pay the Medical Insurance premiums of folks who have RETIRED from Ford, GM and Chrysler.

Not a good deal for us.

[Kritafo]

Can you believe it? I know how much my nephew makes in Windsor at Ford, it's truly sickening. They love to brag about what they don't do. I know just as many "injured" workers that are going back to University via the Big 3 so they can get a new career. But they all know they will never make the same amount of money as they did when they worked at these union shops.

[adam c]

wow that's fucking insane..

[KleanCord]

I would have said it was BS if I didn't see it was in a credible source.

Next time someone asks me what is wrong with unions, there will be plenty to talk about.

I always heard it was high. But hearing and confirming are different things. I would like to know more about the pension plan though. How long do you work for to get 40% compensation.

[KleanCord]

Wait I just read this again.

So you have to show up at a Job Bank to get the hourly wage? I don't understand that. You can't be paid unless you sign in somewhere?

[atgilchrist]

I read that a large pecentage of the difference between the domestic and import wages is accounted for by legace costs (ie pensions, etc). The domestics have been around longer, therefore much longer pensions to pay out. I don't know how that accounts for 50% higher costs though. And the ~$70/hr isn't all wage, it also accounts for insurance (no health care in the States) and the aforementioned pension costs of the companies.
It's not that empoyees average $73/hr, rather that is what the company spends (on average) for every man hour worked.

[89coupe]

Originally posted by atgilchrist
I read that a large pecentage of the difference between the domestic and import wages is accounted for by legace costs (ie pensions, etc). The domestics have been around longer, therefore much longer pensions to pay out. I don't know how that accounts for 50% higher costs though. And the ~$70/hr isn't all wage, it also accounts for insurance (no health care in the States) and the aforementioned pension costs of the companies.
It's not that empoyees average $73/hr, rather that is what the company spends (on average) for every man hour worked.

I'm pretty sure it says that in the post I made. Whether you get it in your wage or in benefits, its still money given to you.

[realazy]

Wow that Job Bank is just a load of shit. So you get laid off and all you gotta do is to show up a the Job Bank to get paid $31/h? WTF?

[Fivewayradio]

Can you post the link to where you got that from please? I can't find it on the Forbes site.

[Xtrema]

too much legacy cost.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scientific_management

aka Taylorism in combination of joblessness during the great depression, working are ask to do the impossible as dictates by management.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wagner_Act

This is brought in to fight it and the union is born. And the auto industry is forever separated into 2 camps and fighter each other ever since.

The system works fine for both until the Japanese came in with a brand new way of operation. Co-operation between management and workers thru empowerment.

They get more done with happier workers and product shows.

[corsvette]

Add up the years and years this has been happening,back when times were good for the big three this all may have sounded more reasonable,working for one of the largest and most sucessful company had its labour/security benifits,now the years of increased competition has brought the company to its brink,and no it must break the ways of old,and i think a the union should make some large sacrifices.

[88CRX]

Was just back in Sarnin/London/Windsor visiting family and most of them work for some sort out auto manufacturer or auto plant and my one cousin's plant is being shut down for 6 weeks and he's receiving 70% of his wages to not come into work

He figures with gas money/child care/etc that he's gonna come out on top compared to actually working and making his full salary.

[max_boost]

That's insane. How the hell did it get to this point? No wonder they are going bankrupt.

[Canmorite]

UAW is not to blame. Nope, not at all.

[msommers]

Detroit's current average labor cost is about $71 per hour, compared to $47 an hour at Toyota, which has no unions. But it's misleading to suggest that Detroit autoworkers are paid $71 an hour. About $17 of that is the cost of health care insurance for retirees. General Motors (nyse: GM - news - people ) has 442,000 retirees in North America, four times as many current employees. Toyota has only 371 retirees in the U.S.; Honda has 2,400.

What do autoworkers really make? Detroit's hourly workers earn $28 an hour, or $57,000 a year. (Toyota workers make $25.) Benefits and payroll taxes bring the total cost per worker up to $54 an hour, versus $47 at Toyota. Under a breakthrough labor contract in 2007, new hires in non-assembly jobs will be paid only $14 an hour and will receive less generous benefits, which will narrow that remaining gap considerably.

http://www.forbes.com/manufacturing/...1205union.html

Did I skip over something? I still think the unions are part of the problem, unions are fucking useless for the 21st century worker.

[googe]

its worth noting that those are US figures, where the employer has to pay for private health insurance. still high, but health care coverage is a big expense, so it isnt as high as it sounds. I would guess on average that blue collar workers have bigger families and make more claims than university professors too. profs tend to have smaller families and take care of themselves better.

[Kritafo]

Originally posted by 88CRX
Was just back in Sarnia/London/Windsor visiting family and most of them work for some sort out auto manufacturer or auto plant and my one cousin's plant is being shut down for 6 weeks and he's receiving 70% of his wages to not come into work

He figures with gas money/child care/etc that he's gonna come out on top compared to actually working and making his full salary.

Part of the reason I left that part of Ontario was almost 90% of my graduating class works in these unions jobs. I ran, I didn't want that life for myself. There is always talk of plant closures, lay-offs strikes to worry about. I said this before but when they do all the scale backs of workers it will be bargain basement house shopping none of these people will be able to afford their houses and livestyles. Everyone does nothing but talk union talk.

[kertejud2]

Originally posted by googe
its worth noting that those are US figures, where the employer has to pay for private health insurance. still high, but health care coverage is a big expense, so it isnt as high as it sounds. I would guess on average that blue collar workers have bigger families and make more claims than university professors too. profs tend to have smaller families and take care of themselves better.

And the other issue is that actual wages have a negligible difference. The gap is created because of the legacies and pensions. The UAW isn't going to sell out their pensioners, and why should they cut hourly wages when the difference is $3. Sure they could cut it by $3 an hour, but then they'd still be paying $68/hr compared to Toyota.


So now lets say they should just cut wherever they can, then what should happen to the hundreds of thousands of pensioners and family members who would now be without health insurance and income (in the case of pensioners)? Should the government save them or should they be left to fend for themselves, only solidifying the reason we have unions in the first place.



So where should the UAW cut these "wages"? Let their own workers get paid considerably less than their non-Detroit counterparts (I'm sure the lower middle class can live off $4/hr) or screw their pensioners and all the families, which the UAW spent years trying to protect. But if Toyota and Honda pay their retirees, why shouldn't Ford, GM and Chrysler?

So what would be better for the U.S. car companies? Have their employees take an hourly wage on par with their overseas competitors (saving them $3/hr) or have universal health care, saving them $17/hr on retirees alone?

[Hakkola]

These are not average wages, they include benefits, which are calculated to be worth about 10 dollars an hour, and pension costs, so these are costs for the employer on average per hour divided by the number of current workers, even though the cost includes those on pension and benefits.

I think the real average was around 40 dollars an hour. If you do a search on digg.com you will find an article on it.

Edit - looks like someone beat me to it, in a bit of a hurry so I couldnÄt read the whole thread and wanted to comment.

[Joel_D]

Looks like the employee's are celebrating the success of the bail-out

http://www.clickondetroit.com/video/10235271/index.html