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Thread: MMR Vaccine / Autism Link a Lie from the start?

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    Default MMR Vaccine / Autism Link a Lie?

    The doctor (or his team) that started the whole scare may have falsified data to show a link when there was none

    But by studying confidential and public records, investigative reporter Brian Deer, who has been following the MMR controversy since the beginning, found a different story. Hospital and other records indicated that virtually all of the children had begun developing symptoms of autism well before the shot, Deer's report said. Hospital pathologists examining the children for signs of inflammatory bowel disease were unable to find it in most of the cases, Deer discovered, but Wakefield or someone on the team changed the data to make it appear as if the condition was found, Deer reported in the Times. At least one parent of a child in whose intestines the virus was said to have been found took samples to three other labs, which were unable to find the virus, Deer's report said.

    Moreover, Deer reported, Wakefield was retained as an expert witness two years earlier by a lawyer planning to sue vaccine manufacturers on behalf of parents who thought MMR caused their children's problems. The parents cited in the Lancet article came to Wakefield's clinic in response to an advertising campaign led by the lawyer's group, called Jabs, and not for routine screening, Deer's report said.
    http://www.dailytech.com/Report+Brit...ticle14232.htm

    http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/boos...sh-doctor.html

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    Vaccinations have always been controversial. People like to blame things when children have health issues.

    It's just as crazy when parents with autistic kids read Jenny McCarthy's book on curing Autism with food and supplements.

    Did you know their is a theory that certain types of parents often produce an autistic children. Engineers, mathematicians physicists more often produce an autistic child.

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    Yeah, this was breaking news about 5 minutes after Wakefield's bullshit study came out over 10 years ago.

    There has never been any real scientific debate on whether or not vaccinations cause Autism. The only reason it's so heavily researched is because pieces of shit like Jenny McCarthy are really good at screaming over top of actual doctors on Larry King. If I had an autistic child, words cannot express how fucking livid I'd be at these goddamned people for derailing real research, spreading misinformation, and diverting resources away from real science.

    If you want a really good read on Jenny McCarthy, read her shit about how she was an Indigo mother and one of the chosen to have a special Crystal child from space or some such batshit crazy nonsense.

    Also worth noting, her son likely has Landau-Kleffner syndrome, not Autism.



    If you think I'm just being my normal assholish self here, I assure you on this issue it goes much deeper than that. Your kids and My kids are at a greater risk because of people like this. Our kids aren't getting the best possible medicine because of people like this.
    Look at the number of measles outbreaks since these fucking morons started getting media exposure. They've been skyrocketing. In less than a year, the number of outbreaks has more than doubled. It's just a matter of time before this type of anti-scientific stupidity starts killing kids.

    The book "Autism's False Prophets" by Dr.Paul Offit is on my short list. I've read and listened to several interviews with him, and judging by those (and despite me not having read the book yet), I'd suggest anyone interested in learning more about this travesty pick it up.

    EDIT: I should also add that the Jenny McCarthy's of the world have already killed innocent children with needless chelation therapy. Like I said, this is more than me just being a prick as usual. These people are killing fucking kids with this nonsense, and Oprah and Larry King are eating it up. It's fucking disgusting.
    Last edited by TKRIS; 02-11-2009 at 11:13 AM.
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    if you go to the many autism sites lots of them truly believe it's vaccinations.

    Funny I read an article the other day about how often is Landau-Kleffner misdiagnosed as Autism. It's so misunderstood.

    But really if you ever get a chance to be around a savant, it will give you goose bumps. And I am not talking watching rainman. lol. Not all savants are autistic.

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    Some videos:






    If anyone is interested in this topic, I've accumulated a fairly substantial amount of information, and would be happy to share.
    Founding member of the Leave-Me-Alone-atarian party of Canada.

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    studying the vaccine or autism? I am just curious cause I did some courses at Geneva Centre back in the first years of it's opening in Toronto.

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    Originally posted by TKRIS
    If you want a really good read on Jenny McCarthy, read her shit about how she was an Indigo mother and one of the chosen to have a special Crystal child from space or some such batshit crazy nonsense.

    Also worth noting, her son likely has Landau-Kleffner syndrome, not Autism.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jenny_M...sm_controversy
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indigo_Children
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Landau-Kleffner_syndrome

    For anyone interested
    In reference to Rob Anders:
    Originally posted by ZenOps
    Hes not really that bad...

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    Primarily the link, or I should say, complete lack of evidence for a link, between the two.

    In case it's not glaringly obvious yet, stupid people spreading misinformation and misrepresenting science piss me off. Even more so when they do it at the expense of those most vulnerable.
    I'm not going to be the one to discover the cause of Autism, or the cure. I can't make your kid, or my kid, not get Autism. What I can do, however, is point out flawed logic concerning vaccinations, and hopefully keep your kid, and my kid, from getting sick from an easily preventable illness, or possibly dieing due to the pseudo-scientific bullshit that's getting more and more widespread.

    I've done more research than usual on this topic partially because I have a young daughter, and partially because of a flier I saw a few months ago for a woman in my town who puts on an anti-vaccination seminar. I plan on attending the next one, and I'm not one to go into something without knowing all the pertinent material.
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    The worst part is these people are a danger to the whole well being of our society. The more people who do not get vaccinated and catch the pathogen the more chances it will mutate into a strain to which the rest of the population is not immune. We should be locking these people up or forcing vaccinations upon the children...

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    Originally posted by mazdavirgin
    The worst part is these people are a danger to the whole well being of our society. The more people who do not get vaccinated and catch the pathogen the more chances it will mutate into a strain to which the rest of the population is not immune. We should be locking these people up or forcing vaccinations upon the children...
    Holy gestapo. No, we dont force vaccines on people. If we did, the flu would probably be the one they force first. Speaking of that, do you have your flu shot?

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    These two aren't really comparable. There are valid reasons to not get a flu shot. There are not valid reasons to deny your child an MMR vaccination, and I would agree that doing so is akin to child abuse. I'm not saying we should lock these parents up and throw away the key, but we do, obviously, need to do a better job of educating them, and I think there should be consequences if they refuse.


    FWIW: It's also worth noting that the influenza vaccination is nowhere near as effective as the MMR vaccination, and that it's effectiveness tends to drop drastically among those most susceptible to catching it,and most susceptible to serious complications.
    Last edited by TKRIS; 02-11-2009 at 03:30 PM.
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    Originally posted by TKRIS
    These two aren't really comparable. There are valid reasons to not get a flu shot. There are not valid reasons to deny your child an MMR vaccination, and I would agree that doing so is akin to child abuse. I'm not saying we should lock these parents up and throw away the key, but we do, obviously, need to do a better job of educating them, and I think there should be consequences if they refuse.


    FWIW: It's also worth noting that the influenza vaccination is nowhere near as effective as the MMR vaccination, and that it's effectiveness tends to drop drastically among those most susceptible to catching it,and most susceptible to serious complications.
    Most people take it for granted and brush it off - I don't see a valid reason for not getting it anually (I'm sure you have some and I'd like to know them). I make the comparison because of the shear # of deaths annually from it. However you're right, it's an odd comparison.

    The flu vaccine annually is a best guess on which strains it's going to be. Definately a hit/miss on effectiveness year to year and dependent on what strains they think will be the ones that will be widespread. However it is the most effective way to prevent it.

    It's easy for people to be swayed by what seems to be proof, and in this day and age - whoever can yell louder and make a bigger deal out of something gets the stage (as with MMR vaccination misconceptions). You're right, education is the best way to combat it, though I think when their kids getting sick from measles/mumps/rubella (and the life long implications from it in some cases) will be enough of a punishment.

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    I disagree. I don't think that letting innocent kids get sick, and possibly having long term medical problems is punishment enough for the parents based on the assumption that they'll feel guilty about it.

    These parents are willingly exposing their kids to that because they falsely think that the alternative will result in Autism. As such, even if the kid gets Rubella, the parents will simply say "Oh well. At least s/he's not autistic."

    No, we need real consequences BEFORE these kids end up sick or dead.

    Like I said, I don't think we need to lock them up and throw away the key, but I do think they should be ostracized, called out, and generally be made to feel like the shitty parents they are.
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    Originally posted by TKRIS
    I disagree. I don't think that letting innocent kids get sick, and possibly having long term medical problems is punishment enough for the parents based on the assumption that they'll feel guilty about it.

    These parents are willingly exposing their kids to that because they falsely think that the alternative will result in Autism. As such, even if the kid gets Rubella, the parents will simply say "Oh well. At least s/he's not autistic."

    No, we need real consequences BEFORE these kids end up sick or dead.

    Like I said, I don't think we need to lock them up and throw away the key, but I do think they should be ostracized, called out, and generally be made to feel like the shitty parents they are.
    That's not a bad idea, a list of people who's kids didnt get immunizations. Some kid who didnt get an MMR immunization is going to bring that shit to school. The last thing we want is someone bringing that home to an infant/pregnant mom.

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    ^Good point.
    If my kid can't take a fucking peanut butter sandwich to school because you're precious little flower will go into anaphylactic shock at the site of a legume, then I don't think my kid should have to deal with your diseased little tyrant because you're too stupid to fact-check anything you hear on Oprah.
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    hah! The peanut allergy thing is a huge pet peeve of mine.

    Parents send their kids to school wearing t-shirt screaming not to feed them peanut butter. Who the hell are these kid going to make it in the real world. Resume will read, has to be in a nut free environment...yeah right!

    Flu shots aren't recommended for people with egg and chicken protein allergies and sensitivities

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    Update regarding Autism vs MMR Vaccines on CNN

    (CNN) -- (CNN) -- A special court ruled Thursday that parents of autistic children are not entitled to compensation in their contention that certain vaccines caused autism in their children.


    A special court denied Mike and Theresa Cedillo's claim that vaccines caused autism in their daughter, Michelle.
    1 of 2 "I must decide this case not on sentiment, but by analyzing the evidence," one of the "special masters" hearing the case said in denying the families' claims, ruling that the families had not presented sufficient evidence to prove their allegations.

    The decisions came in three test cases heard in 2007 involving children with autism that their parents contend was triggered by early childhood vaccinations.

    The three families -- the Cedillos, the Hazlehursts and the Snyders -- were notified Wednesday that a decision had been reached, as were the more than 180 lawyers collectively representing the 4,800 families with claims in the Vaccine Court Omnibus Autism Proceeding, said lead plaintiffs' attorney Thomas Powers.

    At 14, Michelle Cedillo can't speak, wears a diaper and requires round-the-clock monitoring in case she has a seizure. Her parents say their only child was a happy, engaged toddler who responded to her name, said "mommy" and "daddy," and was otherwise normal until at 15 months she received several vaccinations -- one for measles, mumps and rubella, and others that contained thimerosal, a mercury-based preservative.

    The other two families described similar alterations in their children's development after receiving vaccinations in their first two years of life.

    The government argued during the 2007 bench trials that the plaintiffs' claims linking the vaccines with autism are not supported by "good science."

    Likewise, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, the World Health Organization and the Institute of Medicine have found no credible link between vaccinations and autism.

    Powers' litigation steering committee is representing thousands of families that fall into three categories: those who claim MMR vaccines and thimerosal-containing vaccines can combine to cause autism; those who claim thimerosal-containing vaccines alone can cause autism; and those who claim MMR vaccines, without any link to thimerosal, can cause autism.

    Thursday's rulings will only affect the families that fall under the first category, Powers said.


    Since 2001, thousands of parents of children with autism have filed petitions seeking compensation with the Vaccine Injury Compensation Program at the Department of Health and Human Services.

    By mid-2008, more than 5,300 cases were filed in the program. Five thousand of those are awaiting adjudication, according to the agency.
    http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/02/11...nes/index.html

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