The Ridiculousness of Rockyview General Hospital

[forkdork]

Originally posted by cashflow


Sure, you can say that I'm lucky ...lol. But if you don't play along with the stupid system and put even .005% of the thought your brain is capable of, you'd realize that it makes no sense for doctors to be memorizing books and paying fee until they're 32.
Memorizing books doesn't make anybody smart, anybody can do that. It's just that many don't. I am amazed to see how people keep accepting flaws in the society and to make it worse they defend them.
University of Calgary keeps raising the fee, but nobody stands against it. People join facebook groups like the President is going to see it and reverse his decision. Recently city started charging for parking on stations, some people defended it saying it's atleast cheaper than downtown. Something is terribly wrong with the society dude. Why don't you guys realize???

Because school consists of memorizing books. Yep! Seriously, just stop posting.

BTW: MD at 24 here. But I thought you said the youngest Dr. you ever met was 30? lolz

[kertejud2]

Originally posted by cashflow


k don't you have to finish some pre-reqs. to get into medicine. Maybe you don't have to finish the Bachelors but 95% students still have to finish 3 years and many take more than 4 years to get into medicine. One you get into Med. school it's 4 years. Then your residency(sp.?) clinical rotations etc etc etc. I youngest doctor I've met is 30. But most finish education when they're 32 or higher. Anyhow ....

The reason that 95% of students need to get a Bachelor's or more is because only 2500 people get accepted to Med School every year out of 10,000+ applicants.

So yes, it can take more than 4 years to go into medicine, it can also take 2 years to get into medicine. I know people who needed one year of schooling (got bumped to 2nd year because of AP classes) and were doctors at 22. When you are in your residency, you are a doctor. When you do clinical rotations, you are a doctor. "Finishing" education is a misleading because no doctor is really ever finished learning, technology changes so fast.

Between Canada and the Royal College countries (UK, Ireland, South Africa, Australia, Singapore, Hong Kong etc.) you'd be looking at these differences (on average):

Canada:
2-4 years university, 4 years Med school, +up to 6 years specializing

RCPS
6 years Medicine program, up to 6 years specializing.

Now of course this is what is required of course. In Canada most people take 4 years, but in the RCPS you also can have applicants with undergraduate degrees (they often get to skip the first year or maybe two dependig on their degree).

The reason you don't see many doctors (or at least people calling themselves doctors) is because they aren't finished specializing.


Now the point is that your claims of a 6 year difference are bullshit and you don't know what you're talking about. In Canada, you're looking at 10-14 years to become a specialized doctor (say a neurosurgeon), in the rest of the world, you're looking at a minimum of 12 years to become a specialized doctor (say a neurosurgeon).


And while we're on the subject, the RCSP has long been thinking of making an undergraduate degree a requirement and cutting down the Medicine program to 4 years. Simply because they get so many applicants with BScs anyway, its a good additional vetting process.

You claimed med school was just a lot of memorizing, a lot of it is. But there are many required courses that are simply to weed out those who got that far just because they can memorize (O-Chem is one of the favorites for this). And doctors are always learning as I mentioned. My father went to medical school over 30 years ago, in a different country. Would you really want him to just use the knowledge he was taught in the 70s? He's over 50 years old and hasn't stopped educating himself on medicine since he was 18.


But keep talking out of your ass.

[urban.one]

[cashflow]

Originally posted by forkdork


Because school consists of memorizing books. Yep! Seriously, just stop posting.

BTW: MD at 24 here. But I thought you said the youngest Dr. you ever met was 30? lolz

lol ... k you're just acting that way. I thought something was actually wrong with you. No point in being a doctor ..until you can't work on your own. You know what I meant all the time. Having a doctor in front of my name is useless until I can serve the patients. People actually start calling themselves doctors as soon as they get into the Med. school. Just a matter of time before people call themselves doctors at the thought of going to a med school.
oh yeh and a fake .... lol I don't think it makes a point any better. But o well ...

[forkdork]

Originally posted by cashflow



lol ... k you're just acting that way. I thought something was actually wrong with you. No point in being a doctor ..until you can't work on your own. You know what I meant all the time. Having a doctor in front of my name is useless until I can serve the patients. People actually start calling themselves doctors as soon as they get into the Med. school. Just a matter of time before people call themselves doctors at the thought of going to a med school.
oh yeh and a fake .... lol I don't think it makes a point any better. But o well ...

So how many times have you been rejected?

I'd probably be bitter too.

[cashflow]

Originally posted by kertejud2


The reason that 95% of students need to get a Bachelor's or more is because only 2500 people get accepted to Med School every year out of 10,000+ applicants.

So yes, it can take more than 4 years to go into medicine, it can also take 2 years to get into medicine. I know people who needed one year of schooling (got bumped to 2nd year because of AP classes) and were doctors at 22. When you are in your residency, you are a doctor. When you do clinical rotations, you are a doctor. "Finishing" education is a misleading because no doctor is really ever finished learning, technology changes so fast.

Between Canada and the Royal College countries (UK, Ireland, South Africa, Australia, Singapore, Hong Kong etc.) you'd be looking at these differences (on average):

Canada:
2-4 years university, 4 years Med school, +up to 6 years specializing

RCPS
6 years Medicine program, up to 6 years specializing.

Now of course this is what is required of course. In Canada most people take 4 years, but in the RCPS you also can have applicants with undergraduate degrees (they often get to skip the first year or maybe two dependig on their degree).

The reason you don't see many doctors (or at least people calling themselves doctors) is because they aren't finished specializing.


Now the point is that your claims of a 6 year difference are bullshit and you don't know what you're talking about. In Canada, you're looking at 10-14 years to become a specialized doctor (say a neurosurgeon), in the rest of the world, you're looking at a minimum of 12 years to become a specialized doctor (say a neurosurgeon).


And while we're on the subject, the RCSP has long been thinking of making an undergraduate degree a requirement and cutting down the Medicine program to 4 years. Simply because they get so many applicants with BScs anyway, its a good additional vetting process.

You claimed med school was just a lot of memorizing, a lot of it is. But there are many required courses that are simply to weed out those who got that far just because they can memorize (O-Chem is one of the favorites for this). And doctors are always learning as I mentioned. My father went to medical school over 30 years ago, in a different country. Would you really want him to just use the knowledge he was taught in the 70s? He's over 50 years old and hasn't stopped educating himself on medicine since he was 18.


But keep talking out of your ass.

k thanks for letting me know that you don't what you're talking abt. Although the world is moving towards and American system which means being a student until your mid 30s (and med. schools realizing that education can be used to make more money) many countries in Europe and Asia still have the same system. The original British system. Grade 11 and 12 are more intense compared to the joke here. In N. American Medicine is usually second entry, which mean you can't get into University of ALberta med. school after Grade 12. Obviously because Universities treat students as money machines and make us pay as much as possible before we leave and filthy managements fill their pockets every year. If that British was followed here, it'd cut atleast 2 for a very few and 4-5 years for many students off unnecessary and useless studying.
In other countries because Grade 12 is more challenging they write MCAT right after grade 12 because going thru the Bachelors crap. And people who get into Med. school, know it right after the MCATs. So they don't have to waste 2 years (and obviously pay stupendous amounts of money .. and waste 2 years worth of time) to realize that you can't make it and so take admissions in some other faculty or something. And obviously then we have shortage of doctors, the useful people who are not good enough to work on their own because they've been sitting thru 10 years of med school and still need somebody to watch over them. If they could graduate 4-5 years faster, which they can ... no doubt ....things would be so much better. But alas ...hopeless continues to build in people and even intelligence today stands for memorizing and copy-pasting. A smarter person today is just better at rote memorization. Not being logical. Sad ...

[cashflow]

Originally posted by forkdork


So how many times have you been rejected?

I'd probably be bitter too.

umm I know where you're coming from man. A common human tendency of not waking up to something bad until it harms you on a personal level. But it doesn't hurt to be precautionary as we have future generations who may have to go through the same ridiculous system.

[D. Dub]

Originally posted by cashflow


. But alas ...hopeless continues to build in people and even intelligence today stands for memorizing and copy-pasting. A smarter person today is just better at rote memorization. Not being logical. Sad ...

Umm... do you have any idea what you are talking about.... at all?!?!?!

My wife is an MD and I have a Master's degree and am currently working on my second.

I can assure you that neither of us have relied on simple rote memorization or copy and pasting in our education.

Do doctors have to memorize info -- duhh obviously -- but that is only a means to an ends not the ends itself. The memorized info is then used as the foundation for critical thinking and as part of diagnostic treatment algorithms.

As far as graduate education in any field -- it's about critical thinking.

Please stop talking out of your ass... it's getting old -- how about using the effort and energy wasted in your diatribe to actually get an education?

[kertejud2]

Originally posted by cashflow


k thanks for letting me know that you don't what you're talking abt. Although the world is moving towards and American system which means being a student until your mid 30s (and med. schools realizing that education can be used to make more money) many countries in Europe and Asia still have the same system.

Med School is 4 years in Canada and the U.S (sometimes 3). If they wanted to make more money, they'd go to the RCPS system because then they'd get to take the money for a full 6 years.

You don't pay any school for your specialization, hospitals pay you during your specialization.

The original British system. Grade 11 and 12 are more intense compared to the joke here.

It sonly intense because they put all the exams at the same time (like the SATs). Just a lot of memorization and regurgitation just like everywhere else, the only difference is that they didn't spread it out like here.

And if Grade 11 and 12 isn't challenging enough take AP classes, that's what the smart kids do.

In N. American Medicine is usually second entry, which mean you can't get into University of ALberta med. school after Grade 12. Obviously because Universities treat students as money machines and make us pay as much as possible before we leave and filthy managements fill their pockets every year. If that British was followed here, it'd cut atleast 2 for a very few and 4-5 years for many students off unnecessary and useless studying.

And it could add a year or 2 for some students as well. Again, the reason the RCPS is thinking of changing isn't for money (the Medical faculty would be losing 2 years of payments), its because they get so many applicants with Bachelor's degrees who have to waste a year re-doing what they already did

In other countries because Grade 12 is more challenging they write MCAT right after grade 12 because going thru the Bachelors crap. And people who get into Med. school, know it right after the MCATs. So they don't have to waste 2 years (and obviously pay stupendous amounts of money .. and waste 2 years worth of time) to realize that you can't make it and so take admissions in some other faculty or something.

You can take the MCATs right out of high school here as well. If you ace them you wont need to take it again and have it for your application.

And obviously then we have shortage of doctors, the useful people who are not good enough to work on their own because they've been sitting thru 10 years of med school and still need somebody to watch over them. If they could graduate 4-5 years faster, which they can ... no doubt ....things would be so much better.

Holy fuck you're stupid. Med School is 4 years. No more, sometimes less (3 years). I don't know what the hell you're talking about with "10 years of med school" nobody is in med school for 10 fucking years. You either don't know what med school is or you are borderline retarded.

And the shortage of doctors isn't because it takes so long to graduate (it takes 4 years), its because there are a set number of med school spots, every single one of which are filled every year. In fact about 90% of applicants don't get in. If Med School was about the money you'd think they'd open a spot or two to get more $$$.

We could open a debate about the funding to open more med school spots, but you can hardly grasp how long it takes to graduate and put it into coherent sentences ( )


Again, after 4 years of med school, you have 4-6 years specializing. THIS IS NOT MED SCHOOL! This is done everywhere. Canada, the U.S., the UK, Ireland, Singapore, Hong Kong, Australia, South Africa etc. etc. etc.

Once you get into Med School in Canada, it takes 10 years to become a neurosurgeon or a cardiac surgeon or an orthapedic surgeon. It will take 8 years to become a Family doctor, or a dermatologist or an anaesthesiologist.

In Britain, upon getting into Med school, it will take you 12 years to become a neuro, cardiac or orthapedic surgeon and 10 years to become a family doctor or anaesthesiologist.

You seem to want to change the way we get into medicine, but that doesn't change. The reason you need 2 or 4 or 6 years of post-secondary is because you just didn't have what they wanted when you applied the first time, and there's 10,000 other people all applying for the same 2,500 spots.
And you also claim its about money, as if the U of C faculty of Medicine cares how long you spent paying the U of L or UWO or Dalhousie for your Bachelor's degree. They get the money when you're in med school, if it is was about the money, they'd want you in as soon as possible for as long as possible. Instead, you're in for 4 (sometimes 3) and out, onto do whatever it is you want to do.

But alas ...hopeless continues to build in people and even intelligence today stands for memorizing and copy-pasting. A smarter person today is just better at rote memorization. Not being logical. Sad ...

Yet you think high school students should take the MCATs, fucking brilliant.

And I'm still not sure how you think 2 years of post-secondary, or even a BSc discourages logical thinking? Going by this logic (OMG logical thinking!) it would make most sense to require a PhD before becoming a doctor because not only were you able to memorize early on (still a very important requirement for becoming a doctor), you showed critical thinking skills to get your Masters and your PhD.

So, you'd support all doctors requiring some form of post-graduate degree I assume?

[cashflow]

Originally posted by kertejud2


Med School is 4 years in Canada and the U.S (sometimes 3). If they wanted to make more money, they'd go to the RCPS system because then they'd get to take the money for a full 6 years.

You don't pay any school for your specialization, hospitals pay you during your specialization.



It sonly intense because they put all the exams at the same time (like the SATs). Just a lot of memorization and regurgitation just like everywhere else, the only difference is that they didn't spread it out like here.

And if Grade 11 and 12 isn't challenging enough take AP classes, that's what the smart kids do.



And it could add a year or 2 for some students as well. Again, the reason the RCPS is thinking of changing isn't for money (the Medical faculty would be losing 2 years of payments), its because they get so many applicants with Bachelor's degrees who have to waste a year re-doing what they already did



You can take the MCATs right out of high school here as well. If you ace them you wont need to take it again and have it for your application.




Holy fuck you're stupid. Med School is 4 years. No more, sometimes less (3 years). I don't know what the hell you're talking about with "10 years of med school" nobody is in med school for 10 fucking years. You either don't know what med school is or you are borderline retarded.

And the shortage of doctors isn't because it takes so long to graduate (it takes 4 years), its because there are a set number of med school spots, every single one of which are filled every year. In fact about 90% of applicants don't get in. If Med School was about the money you'd think they'd open a spot or two to get more $$$.

We could open a debate about the funding to open more med school spots, but you can hardly grasp how long it takes to graduate and put it into coherent sentences ( )


Again, after 4 years of med school, you have 4-6 years specializing. THIS IS NOT MED SCHOOL! This is done everywhere. Canada, the U.S., the UK, Ireland, Singapore, Hong Kong, Australia, South Africa etc. etc. etc.

Once you get into Med School in Canada, it takes 10 years to become a neurosurgeon or a cardiac surgeon or an orthapedic surgeon. It will take 8 years to become a Family doctor, or a dermatologist or an anaesthesiologist.

In Britain, upon getting into Med school, it will take you 12 years to become a neuro, cardiac or orthapedic surgeon and 10 years to become a family doctor or anaesthesiologist.

You seem to want to change the way we get into medicine, but that doesn't change. The reason you need 2 or 4 or 6 years of post-secondary is because you just didn't have what they wanted when you applied the first time, and there's 10,000 other people all applying for the same 2,500 spots.
And you also claim its about money, as if the U of C faculty of Medicine cares how long you spent paying the U of L or UWO or Dalhousie for your Bachelor's degree. They get the money when you're in med school, if it is was about the money, they'd want you in as soon as possible for as long as possible. Instead, you're in for 4 (sometimes 3) and out, onto do whatever it is you want to do.



Yet you think high school students should take the MCATs, fucking brilliant.

And I'm still not sure how you think 2 years of post-secondary, or even a BSc discourages logical thinking? Going by this logic (OMG logical thinking!) it would make most sense to require a PhD before becoming a doctor because not only were you able to memorize early on (still a very important requirement for becoming a doctor), you showed critical thinking skills to get your Masters and your PhD.

So, you'd support all doctors requiring some form of post-graduate degree I assume?

Either you're acting stupid or you really are one. First of all I am opposing the Bachelors coming between a Ph.D. for those who wish to become MDs. That is a utter waste of 4 years and money. It's not rigorous n shii. The high school is made so easy because they want, everybody to somehow, someway "graduate." So that the graduation rate is high. And then obviously people who're willing to get further education have to spend unnecessary time at the university.

Yeh right, write MCAT after high school ... you know they don't have 2x+y=4 on MCAT. Because that is what we're prepared for at the High school. Yeh now act like a smartass, and literally pull and question out of MCAT that actually has that equation and they pick a foolish smilie to make your point stand. IB or AP are a little harder compared to the regular high school joke syllabus, but unless it could guarantee completion of all the Pre-reqs and other requirements, it's of no use. The way you're talking MCAT can be written even in Junior high.

Now don't act like there is no brain between your ears and everything just floats in from one and goes out the other. In most countries, particularly countries who have British system... there is an equivalent MCAT test right after Grade 12. And yes yes yes they are prepared for that in Grade 11 and 12. You'd probably suggest they write it in Grade 5 or something but your school has to prepare you as well. And thousands of candidates write that test. People between ...lets say ...rank 1-1000 .. in that entrance test would be awarded admission in the Best Med. school and as the ranks go down, the level of colleges start to go down as well. For example if your rank is 780 you'd get in at McGill and if you're at 80,000 or something you get in at the U of Calgary. Then they have 4-5 years of Med. school and 1 year of Internship not 6 years of "specialization." So at maximum people are done ... virtually good to practice until they're 24. Now how many Doctors have you seen owning a practice when they're 25????? That's the point I was trying to make. And you'd probably say those doctors suck...don't know crap...i'd be reluctant to get treated by them ...yeh sure and the ignorant list would take forever to end. But at least they're useful and treat their patients.

Another good thing abt that system is if somebody can't get accepted into Med. school they won't have to waste a couple of years at the minimum or more to realize that they can't make it and then take up some other faculty to being all over again. (Sry for talking in German but its my first language so 'm used to it. But hey you understand it pretty well. As i learn it, i'll probably try to talk in English as well.)

Even University makes jumping a 100 ft wall a requirement for people who can't get enough marks, you'd probably start defending that too. (...there are so many people wanting to get in ...how else do you think they'd weed out people ... blah blah blah.) Somebody who tries to suggest that its wrong and illogical you'd start using the typical lame sarcasm.

Can't you see, how education system is a simple money making scheme for those in the management. Fee keeps going up every damn year and nobody gives a rat's butt abt that. Even sad is when people defend it and accept it. The heads of the society are making people pay for every single thing possible. Just a matter of time before a face mask becomes a compulsion and then everybody would have to pay like 2cents for every breath taken. And hopeless would still overcome us as we would somehow, someway manage a way to defend the govt. Because we're too busy and drunk to change the stupidity that's going around in our daily lives. Keep enjoying your lives and following anything the system tells you to do. It's just easier that way. Anyhow man, just give it some more time, afterall there is only a limit to what people can take ... I really hope there is.

But it's peace out from my side.