Calgarians just don't give a shit, and it's sad....

[Aleks]

I've already seen guys slam on their brakes at intersections with cameras to go under the limit through green.



Calgary and Canada are so backward when it comes to driving laws it's gross...

[Heff]

Originally posted by heavyD


You are crazy if you think that the money will go into violent crime ops. It will go to funding of more cameras as cameras make money. Violent crime ops don't make money. This is all about money in the end which is the real crime.

Have you been around Calgary for the past year or so while the police force has been crying about being underfunded and under equipped to deal with the gang violence going on all around us? (And denied adequate additional funding by the city and province?)

And now you're complaining about the cops making money for valid crimes using an automated system.

[Eleanor]

Originally posted by kevie88
They won't. Lets say Eleanor mouths off said drug dealer on Stephen Ave for wanting to sell his wife crack. (not saying he would, he's probably a nice guy)

Eleanor walks down Stephen Ave, turns right onto 4th street. No more Camera protection. Eleanor gets pulled into an alley and robbed and beaten (or worse).

How did the cameras help in this ( admittedly purely hypothetical) situation?

They didn't. Unless of course it was the drug dealer who beat me up in which case they have footage of the guy. However more cameras would've helped

These cameras downtown are simply tools to deter people from committing crimes in these high risk areas and to help gather evidence for court. They are by no means a solution to the problem.

Originally posted by heavyD
This is all about money in the end which is the real crime.

Where will that money go?

Originally posted by dansmith11
not YET they arent. thats the whole point. its a slippery slope. first speed on green cameras are ok, then cameras on certain public corners, then cameras on every corner, then you have a flying camera drone following you around tracking your movements and reporting anything out of the ordinary or illegal you do. but hey, as long as your in public space its ok with you right?

You kind of did a big jump there, I highly doubt you'll ever see a "drone" follow you around with a camera, a much more likely scenario is a number of fixed cameras.

that could easily be doable in the next 15 years with all the advances in technology. its not whats happening right this minute thats scary, its the fact that as time goes on, we allow more and more of it to happen, and next thing you know your freedoms really are taken away. but as long as its in the name of safety right?

You should go talk to a psychiatrist if you claim to be able to see the future. You can't dismiss an idea because of what you think it "might" lead to in the future.

I don't feel like my freedoms have been taken away yet. If this does progress and I do feel my freedoms are being infringed, then yes I will be against it. But I'm not against red light cameras.

shit just look south of the border, they are already losing their freedoms in the name of safety and security. you can be arrested and held without evidence or trial anytime the government wants as long they call you a terrorist first.. but hey , its in the name of safety! and that IS happening right now. if that is already happening, why do you think its such a stretch for the government to start watching your each and every move?

You can also purchase firearms before buying alcohol, what's your point? We aren't talking about the US right now.

Originally posted by Heff
And I believe, Eleanor is a female.

Originally posted by Aleks
I've already seen guys slam on their brakes at intersections with cameras to go under the limit through green.

Don't blame the cameras, blame stupid people.

[heavyD]

Originally posted by Eleanor
Where will that money go?

To buy more cameras. Cameras make lots of money but they aren't cheap. Ever worked in a large company? If a department is making money hand over fist the company doesn't transfer that profit to needy departments. This money will not go to funding of non-traffic crime prevention if that's what you think.

Originally posted by Eleanor Don't blame the cameras, blame stupid people. [/B]

The cameras are causing this type of stupid behaviour. This pheomenom of slamming the brakes while entering a green intersection is all due the the cameras. People are going to be hurt in rear end accidents for what?

[Heff]

Originally posted by Eleanor

amiwrong?

[Eleanor]

Originally posted by heavyD
To buy more cameras. Cameras make lots of money but they aren't cheap. Ever worked in a large company? If a department is making money hand over fist the company doesn't transfer that profit to needy departments. This money will not go to funding of non-traffic crime prevention if that's what you think.

That's not what I think, but everyone keeps calling them cash cows. It's not like the CPS are using these cameras to have golden toilets at each station (EDIT: not implying you are one who thinks like that, but there are some out there). The city is going to get the money anyway, you might as well have a choice in the matter.

The cameras are causing this type of stupid behaviour. This pheomenom of slamming the brakes while entering a green intersection is all due the the cameras. People are going to be hurt in rear end accidents for what?

I think you'll find that the number of accidents will decrease with the installment of these cameras rather than increase.

Edmonton has: http://www.edmontonsun.com/News/Edmo...02461-sun.html

[kevie88]

^ I dunno, I see absolutely no stats in that article other than the vauge "11%". I'd like to see some actual collision numbers.

Remember that de Leur has spent much of his time holding public office in BC..

Trust me, no government would allow a bad 'review' of the cameras to get out.


BTW, this thread has been an enjoyable discussion for the most part.. not very often Beyond has good respectfull banter these days.

[Masked Bandit]

Originally posted by kevie88


They won't. Lets say Eleanor mouths off said drug dealer on Stephen Ave for wanting to sell his wife crack. (not saying he would, he's probably a nice guy)

Eleanor walks down Stephen Ave, turns right onto 4th street. No more Camera protection. Eleanor gets pulled into an alley and robbed and beaten (or worse).

How did the cameras help in this ( admittedly purely hypothetical) situation?

I think you are really giving the average crack dealer too much credit. I don't think the bulk of them would be thinking that far ahead or logically.

[Eleanor]

Originally posted by kevie88
^ I dunno, I see absolutely no stats in that article. Remember that de Leur has spent much of his time holding public office in BC.

You must've missed where they said that:

Collisions have fallen on average by 11% at intersections in Edmonton where the cameras are in place

Trust me, no government would allow a bad 'review' of the cameras to get out.

Here's one: http://www.physorg.com/news124467295.html

BTW, this thread has been an enjoyable discussion for the most part.. not very often Beyond has good respectfull banter these days.

Shut up asshole, you're wrong and your mom's fat

[lilmira]

Originally posted by kevie88


They won't. Lets say Eleanor mouths off said drug dealer on Stephen Ave for wanting to sell his wife crack. (not saying he would, he's probably a nice guy)

Eleanor walks down Stephen Ave, turns right onto 4th street. No more Camera protection. Eleanor gets pulled into an alley and robbed and beaten (or worse).

How did the cameras help in this ( admittedly purely hypothetical) situation?

Not sure about crack dealer, this is apparently not the case with red light camera.

Red light cameras are fixed and the locations have been available to the public for who knows how long, not to mention how visible they are and the warning sign. Apparently people are still falling for it all year long. I guess winter is slippery. It rains in summer so it's also slippery. The rest of the time, cememt trucks are going to run them over. Oh yeah, some other time is just plain bullshit.

I think people are more worked up about the fine than anything.

[Aleks]

Originally posted by Eleanor
That's not what I think, but everyone keeps calling them cash cows. It's not like the CPS are using these cameras to have golden toilets at each station (EDIT: not implying you are one who thinks like that, but there are some out there). The city is going to get the money anyway, you might as well have a choice in the matter.
I think you'll find that the number of accidents will decrease with the installment of these cameras rather than increase.

Edmonton has: http://www.edmontonsun.com/News/Edmo...02461-sun.html

That's not the same as speed on green cameras.

All it's going to do is make people panic at these intersections. You'll have people slowing down scared to get a ticket for speeding through a green OR getting caught going through a red. Ever see what happens when there is a radar van on the side of the road? Everyone gets on the brakes going 10-20 under.

[Canmorite]

Originally posted by Eleanor


I don't feel like my freedoms have been taken away yet.

Feeling like they're being taken and and actually taken away is different for everyone. I don't think it's a questions of if, only a question of when more of these speed cameras get set up on roads between intersections and on highways.

'Not speeding' is the easy answer of course. (Do you own a red light camera company? ) But why not look at the speeding laws and limits? Germany has a much better system then we do (even with speed cameras).

[Maxt]

Originally posted by atgilchrist
^ That post is so full of fail it's hard to comprehend.

If thats the only response you can come up with, your post is total failure..

[Maxt]

With 164 th ave, its not like they would have had to keep it up to 110, I just used it as an example as how they have produced a nice "speed zone" ripe for cherry picking in comparison to other roadways. Compare to Glenmore single lane, its 80, the lack of continuity city wide in the posted limits , I think shows that something is up with the speed limit decisions in this city.
As far stopping in time, I think the onus has to be put on the city to make sure people can stop in time. Its been found in a number of instances that the yellows have been shortened at red light camera's across North America, in order to increase violations.
I don't condone criminals acts against the cameras, I just think people should start filming police and politicians with cameras, and use the footage to press traffic violation charges against them to see how they like being under the scrutiny of pictures they don't have control of.

[Redlyne_mr2]

I find those parking ticket cameras to be a huge invasion of privacy, especially since those stupid things take a picture of you even if you're in your car, I'm surprised those havent been challenged yet.

[Maxt]

Originally posted by Redlyne_mr2
I find those parking ticket cameras to be a huge invasion of privacy, especially since those stupid things take a picture of you even if you're in your car, I'm surprised those havent been challenged yet.

I think the city already challenged the use of Camera's for the greater good and won, I am not sure if it was a blanket decision or not in regard to all implementations.
I see couriers downtown have found a way around that system, for short term parking and deliveries, a second plate with magnets.

[Aleks]

Originally posted by Redlyne_mr2
I find those parking ticket cameras to be a huge invasion of privacy, especially since those stupid things take a picture of you even if you're in your car, I'm surprised those havent been challenged yet.

Have you ever checked out Google street view. It only works in US, Aus, NZ Japan, parts of Europe but it's pretty amazing. You can look at anyone's house and people on the streets, in cars. It's insane.

[Eleanor]

Originally posted by Aleks
That's not the same as speed on green cameras.

All it's going to do is make people panic at these intersections. You'll have people slowing down scared to get a ticket for speeding through a green OR getting caught going through a red. Ever see what happens when there is a radar van on the side of the road? Everyone gets on the brakes going 10-20 under.

You think people are actually going to think that much at a light? I think you give people way too much credit.

Originally posted by Canmorite
'Not speeding' is the easy answer of course. (Do you own a red light camera company? ) But why not look at the speeding laws and limits? Germany has a much better system then we do (even with speed cameras).

Totally agree, not speeding is the easiest answer, which makes it the right one

There are other ways we can be improving our drivers (I'm a big proponent of testing before license renewal), I agree, however this is a fairly easy way to increase revenue and get people to slow down for the short term.

And no, I don't own a red light camera company

[Canmorite]

Originally posted by Eleanor

Totally agree, not speeding is the easiest answer, which makes it the right one

Just because not speeding is the easiest answer, doesn't mean it's the right answer.

http://www.vancnews.com/articles/200...ews/news04.txt

"We need more revenue...Hey I know, let's increase taxes on drivers."

[Maxt]

^^

The chief also pointed out that the Virginia Department of Transportation raised the speed limit on Route 58 through La Crosse to 50 miles per hour last year, up from 45 miles per hour. “With the change in the speed limit we automatically lose 33 percent of the ticketing revenue. But we will not write nonsense tickets,” he said.

Interesting... And if you continually drop speed limits the opposite happens.
You know why some on city council want to drop deerfoot to 80 km/hr..
There is currently no accountability when it comes to spending fine revenue, its more or less budgeted in as free money for whatever, and the public never really knows how much of it there is, and where it all goes.. That really needs to change, otherwise governments at all levels will just add rules to make money continuously, thats all thats happening now, will speeding ever stop.. No..and they know that.
Luckily for those citizens they dont have a career bureaucrat/nutsack hanger as a police chief..