Pyramid Scheme meeting tonight?

[Type_S1]

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I would say WFG would be focusing on slightly different things than say an advisor with a CFA at an IB firm. They should be focusing on their regular joe client’s total personal financial decisions, then attending educational meetings on the products they are offering and acting as a middleman between client and IB firm... not a financial expert on the actual investing side of things.

That being said... I did get caught up talking with a (turned out to be) WFG rep and the statements he was making about mortgages was dead wrong. But the cream always rises and all that. In my industry it’s the same way. Lots of uneducated fools, but the ones making the actual money are bright

When someone is investing the “average joes” life savings they sure as hell should be educated on the products they are selling. I understand their job is to be salesman and get people to hand money over, but there should be a higher standard in the industry. A few poor decisions and these average joes retirements can be crushed. The questions I asked were very basic. Anyone in “finance” should be able to answer the questions quite easily. The problem is most financial advisors at these joke companies, and I mean 99% of them, are highschool graduates with no financial education that should not be talking to anyone about money or finances. I understand this is their job, just like car salesman, but I find it very unethical much like pyramid schemes.

I get solicited a few times a month by various bankers ranging from scum at WFG and other mutual fund peddlers up to mid level guys at your big banks. I am financially literate so have a canned response asking a list of 12 questions on their financial literacy and you would be surprised at how unqualified people are. The ones at the banks usually have some decent responses but it’s likely just coming from their research guys and not their own knowledge. I have yet to be impressed enough to even give someone a coffee meeting, but I’m sure one day that will come.

[Twin_Cam_Turbo]

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Like the service advisers at most dealerships lol

Yeah and those of us who have automotive education can’t stand that job for long.

[Buster]

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When someone is investing the “average joes” life savings they sure as hell should be educated on the products they are selling. I understand their job is to be salesman and get people to hand money over, but there should be a higher standard in the industry. A few poor decisions and these average joes retirements can be crushed. The questions I asked were very basic. Anyone in “finance” should be able to answer the questions quite easily. The problem is most financial advisors at these joke companies, and I mean 99% of them, are highschool graduates with no financial education that should not be talking to anyone about money or finances. I understand this is their job, just like car salesman, but I find it very unethical much like pyramid schemes.

I get solicited a few times a month by various bankers ranging from scum at WFG and other mutual fund peddlers up to mid level guys at your big banks. I am financially literate so have a canned response asking a list of 12 questions on their financial literacy and you would be surprised at how unqualified people are. The ones at the banks usually have some decent responses but it’s likely just coming from their research guys and not their own knowledge. I have yet to be impressed enough to even give someone a coffee meeting, but I’m sure one day that will come.

What are your standard questions?

[npham]

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What are your standard questions?

He posted them on the previous page.

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Here’s a few questions I love to ask “financial advisors” working for these places.

Where did you go to school and what did you major in? Do you have your CFA? What are you credentials? Do you manage your own portfolio of stocks, and if so, what was your last 3 year returns? What sectors are you most well versed in and tell me about the top companies you recommend and why?

[mazdavirgin]

Really the only people you should want to have managing your money are fee-only based advisors with fiduciary duties to their clients. Anything other than that be it WFG or the banks is just out to bleed you with MER's and brokerage fees. The folks from WFG are hilariously under-educated when it comes to investing. Why anyone would give them a cent is beyond me.

[CompletelyNumb]

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I have MULTIPLE clients with IA making WELL over 7-10%, we can only recommend so much based on a risk assessment that YOU as our client answer and sign. I can say you will not get the returns you are looking for at that level but in the end I cant put you in something higher risk than the assessment says unless you sign off saying you understand the risk.

I have clients in super conservative portfolios who just want a little bit of growth and keep the risk super low and I have clients in very aggressive growth funds/portfolios as they understand higher returns come with higher risk.

If whoever you were dealing with before didnt explain this properly than they were in the wrong and can only say what myself and my team/agency do for our clients.

So are you a WFG broker?

[Buster]

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Here’s a few questions I love to ask “financial advisors” working for these places.

Where did you go to school and what did you major in? Do you have your CFA? What are you credentials? Do you manage your own portfolio of stocks, and if so, what was your last 3 year returns? What sectors are you most well versed in and tell me about the top companies you recommend and why?

Fact is, most “financial advisors” selling mutual funds are financially illiterate and completely unqualified. They find anyone off the street to do this stuff, much like other culty sales jobs, it’s just sales with no knowledge behind what they do.

I'm not sure I would use those questions.

- CFA is not a good indicator for Financial Advisory. It's overkill. Many people run very, very large books of business without a CFA.
- An FAs own portfolio is not a good basis for a variety of reasons (it's not risk adjusted, etc.)
- previous 3 year returns are a poor indicator of future performance.
- Many FA's might have opinions on sectors and firms within those sectors. But a smart FA would probably defer that question, and suggest that the PMs they work with are better versed in those specifics. Unless the advisor fashions themselves as a PM themselves. They should be much more concerned with asset allocation than stock picking, as the latter can be expertise within their dealer they can lean on. But the KYC stuff and the individual attention to someone's situation should be the focus of the FA. People suck at picking stocks anyway. Even the pros.

[Misterman]

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Only posts in auto sub forums count ya noob

Cool. Just gotta wait for summer now when car chat starts again.

[Misterman]

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I would say WFG would be focusing on slightly different things than say an advisor with a CFA at an IB firm. They should be focusing on their regular joe client’s total personal financial decisions, then attending educational meetings on the products they are offering and acting as a middleman between client and IB firm... not a financial expert on the actual investing side of things.

That being said... I did get caught up talking with a (turned out to be) WFG rep and the statements he was making about mortgages was dead wrong. But the cream always rises and all that. In my industry it’s the same way. Lots of uneducated fools, but the ones making the actual money are bright

That's exactly what WFG reps do. But really WFG is just one giant cloak organization that dabbles just enough in financials to make it seem like they can offer you something, when their real goal is to sell you some garbage life insurance "Investment" that's really good for them and not great for you.

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Also why they arent allowed to do any work before going through all the proper education and getting a government issued license. All paperwork goes through headoffice and needs to be approved but a fund in a lower risk than what the assessment says goes through as it doesnt go OVER the risk.

Glad to hear you are up, Edward Jones is very well known for having massive fees. I moved a client who was paying upwards of 6k/yr in fees and making BARELY enough to cover that.

Well maybe I'm just lucky then? I have very reasonable fees. In any sense, can't be much worse than the fees through WFG...............

The biggest motivating factor for going with Edward Jones was not the business itself, but the advisor specifically I deal with. He lets me have a good portion of control over my assets. I'm unfortunately locked into their specified allocation which has cost me 100% return this year, but with my own picks I'm still outpacing his returns. He got me one good 30% flip recently, but averages about 8-10%. He would be doing a lot better himself if he wasn't hand tied by EJ's mandated diversification.

[ExtraSlow]

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People suck at picking stocks anyway. Even the pros.

smartest thing in this thread. Thinking that one fund manager or family is going to outperform another with the same basic goals on a long term basis is madness.

- - - Updated - - -

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The biggest motivating factor for going with Edward Jones was not the business itself, but the advisor specifically I deal with. He lets me have a good portion of control over my assets. I'm unfortunately locked into their specified allocation which has cost me 100% return this year, but with my own picks I'm still outpacing his returns. He got me one good 30% flip recently, but averages about 8-10%. He would be doing a lot better himself if he wasn't hand tied by EJ's mandated diversification.

He LETS you have a say in asset allocation? Jesus Christ, who's money is it anyway? Why do you need an advisor at all if you are picking your own products? Comparable products are available as ETFs for a fraction of the fees.

[Type_S1]

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I'm not sure I would use those questions.

- CFA is not a good indicator for Financial Advisory. It's overkill. Many people run very, very large books of business without a CFA.
- An FAs own portfolio is not a good basis for a variety of reasons (it's not risk adjusted, etc.)
- previous 3 year returns are a poor indicator of future performance.
- Many FA's might have opinions on sectors and firms within those sectors. But a smart FA would probably defer that question, and suggest that the PMs they work with are better versed in those specifics. Unless the advisor fashions themselves as a PM themselves. They should be much more concerned with asset allocation than stock picking, as the latter can be expertise within their dealer they can lean on. But the KYC stuff and the individual attention to someone's situation should be the focus of the FA. People suck at picking stocks anyway. Even the pros.

The questions I pose are much more in depth then stated but are to basically scare off the idiot salesman wasting peoples time. I differ from the "average joe" most FA's are trying to get business from in that 1) I am very financially literate myself, and 2) capital. If and when I decide to hand the reigns over to someone they need to clearly be leaps and bounds more intelligent in finance then I am. At the end of the day I am TRUSTING this person with my future so they need to be vetted completely.

- CFA is a good indicator of basic financial knowledge, commitment to the industry, and basic intelligence. I passed CFA level 1, so if someone wants my money they sure as hell better show me they put the time in to become more financially literate then even myself. On top of this, they better have graduated from a good University with great grades.

- A FAs portfolio is extremely important regardless of risk adjustment. I want to understand what they invest in, why they have invested in certain sectors, be able to question them on their own choices to understand them more.

- This is a stupid statement made by losing finance guys, come on man. Nobody bets on losers. Track records are extremely important especially in the market we've seen in the last 3 years. If they have had bad years prior, this doesn't count them out, but I need to understand why their returns were poor and what new idea's/theories they have on the market to change this.

- This is again basic knowledge questions. I am not putting money with someone who simply has his client fill out a "risk-form" that a 9 year old could interpret with questions like "If you invested $1000 would you rather make $500 with the risk of losing $500; or make $100 with the risk of losing $25". If I am investing with someone they better be able to talk certain sectors with me, certain companies, be able to rip apart a company I ask about and provide an opinion, etc.

Back to the point, most FA's are no better then used car salesman. They require no real qualifications or education and are often making extremely poor recommendations to clients who are not financially literate and don't understand what they are even investing in. It is a broken system taking advantage of the lower-middle class.

[yellowsnow]

WFG advisors are seriously under educated. Most of the recruits are just suckers who get pulled into one of their seminars about easy money and have zero financial background. Half of them don't even have their CSC license to sell mutual funds, so they need a partner to sit in with them on a meeting to legally give advice on investments. The guy also tried pushing me into leverage investing by getting a heloc.

What annoyed me the most was how my friend and his partner tried strong arming me to give them my personal contacts, so they could 'help' them with their investments

[killramos]

License to sell mutual funds?

Speaking of credentials printed on toilet paper...

[Disoblige]

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I have yet to be impressed enough to even give someone a coffee meeting, but I’m sure one day that will come.

The problem is that the person you're looking for probably think you're too small fry for them. But yes, maybe one day you get lucky and that day will come.

[Buster]

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The questions I pose are much more in depth then stated but are to basically scare off the idiot salesman wasting peoples time. I differ from the "average joe" most FA's are trying to get business from in that 1) I am very financially literate myself, and 2) capital. If and when I decide to hand the reigns over to someone they need to clearly be leaps and bounds more intelligent in finance then I am. At the end of the day I am TRUSTING this person with my future so they need to be vetted completely.

- CFA is a good indicator of basic financial knowledge, commitment to the industry, and basic intelligence. I passed CFA level 1, so if someone wants my money they sure as hell better show me they put the time in to become more financially literate then even myself. On top of this, they better have graduated from a good University with great grades.

- A FAs portfolio is extremely important regardless of risk adjustment. I want to understand what they invest in, why they have invested in certain sectors, be able to question them on their own choices to understand them more.

- This is a stupid statement made by losing finance guys, come on man. Nobody bets on losers. Track records are extremely important especially in the market we've seen in the last 3 years. If they have had bad years prior, this doesn't count them out, but I need to understand why their returns were poor and what new idea's/theories they have on the market to change this.

- This is again basic knowledge questions. I am not putting money with someone who simply has his client fill out a "risk-form" that a 9 year old could interpret with questions like "If you invested $1000 would you rather make $500 with the risk of losing $500; or make $100 with the risk of losing $25". If I am investing with someone they better be able to talk certain sectors with me, certain companies, be able to rip apart a company I ask about and provide an opinion, etc.

Back to the point, most FA's are no better then used car salesman. They require no real qualifications or education and are often making extremely poor recommendations to clients who are not financially literate and don't understand what they are even investing in. It is a broken system taking advantage of the lower-middle class.

It's not a "stupid statement" made by "losing finance guys". It's a data driven conclusion. And who says "finance guys"?

Anyway. I doubt your capital distinguishes you much. I have no idea how much capital you have but any FA which caters to high PNW individuals is used to dealing with big numbers, and doesn't give a shit. Most of the guys who you would consider NOT a used car salesman trying to deal with the "average joe" are also guy who can pick and choose who they want as clients. A successful FA dealing with high end clients is likely not going to respond well to an opening conversation that requires him to have a CFA which is of questionable utility, be asked for his undergrad transcript, and be asked for his personal stock portfolio and his current hot stock tips. They're interviewing you as much as you are interviewing them.

[Disoblige]

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they're interviewing you as much as you are interviewing them.

qft.

[killramos]

A+ thread

[Misterman]

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He LETS you have a say in asset allocation? Jesus Christ, who's money is it anyway? Why do you need an advisor at all if you are picking your own products? Comparable products are available as ETFs for a fraction of the fees.

Precisely. Pretty sad that having control of your assets is something you would be excited about by leaving WFG. But there you have it.

I have an advisor because I don't want to deal with day to day stuff. He can keep making me my basic 10% between my own picks. I don't pick stocks to hold, I buy on a dip or to ride a hype train for a few weeks, then flip it for 20-50% profit. Those opportunities don't present themselves everyday, so I want my money making more money in the interim.

[austic]

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qft.

Agree, most of the good ones will not even talk to you if you don't have a minimum 6 figures to invest...

[Type_S1]

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It's not a "stupid statement" made by "losing finance guys". It's a data driven conclusion. And who says "finance guys"?

Anyway. I doubt your capital distinguishes you much. I have no idea how much capital you have but any FA which caters to high PNW individuals is used to dealing with big numbers, and doesn't give a shit. Most of the guys who you would consider NOT a used car salesman trying to deal with the "average joe" are also guy who can pick and choose who they want as clients. A successful FA dealing with high end clients is likely not going to respond well to an opening conversation that requires him to have a CFA which is of questionable utility, be asked for his undergrad transcript, and be asked for his personal stock portfolio and his current hot stock tips. They're interviewing you as much as you are interviewing them.

Nvm - not worth arguing here lol