Fair Speed Limits

[Q-TIP]

First off, this thread is not an affront to the CPS or any other law enforcement agencies the world over. They are doing their job as best as they can. Remember that the police don't make the rules.

That little disclaimer out of the way, I personally despise many of the speed limits in and around the Calgary area. I was pulled over today going 68km/h in a marked 50 zone (surrounded by four other vehicles but that's just luck I guess). Now I will pay my ticket as I always do, and I accept responsibility for speeding, however there is no way in hell that road should have been a 50 zone.

Personally, when I am travelling on a FOUR lane DIVIDED road with no sidewalks on either side the speed limit should be at least 60 if not 70. The road in question was the bridge just after the Petro-Canada on Beddington trail NW heading out of the city. I slowed down for the construcion where it was down to one lane, then after that I sped up (as is natural) when the construction was 300m behind me and I had wide open road in front of me. If I would have waited another 20m I would have been in a 60 zone and likely would have driven away without even noticing the police officer.

What I propose is that all Calgarians, not just Beyonders, take this up with our politicians. Green light cameras may be a cash cow, but they are legitimate IF the speed limit is reasonable. What is not legitimate are the construction zones that carry on 24/7 rain-snow-sleet-hail or stat holiday. Also, I respect road workers and their right to safety but I can damn well be sure that if they are separated from traffic by TWO concrete barriers a car would have to be going well over 100 km/h to endanger them so the logic behind 3km long 50 zones on Crowchild Trail is fundamentally flawed.

Just my $0.02.

[Mitsu3000gt]

I agree, personally.

As far as the roads I drive on regularily and based on what I see 90% of the cars driving at safely anyways, my opinion is this:

-Glenmore should be 100
-Crowchild between Glenmore and Kensington should be 110
-14th st south should be 80 or 90
-McLeod trail south of Anderson road should be 110
-Highway 22X should be 100
-Anderson road should be 100

Many of these roads are safer than 100 or 110 km/h sections of the Deerfoot.


When they put a green light on 14th street at Heritage drive, they are going to be making ludacris amounts of money. I don't think I've ever seen anyone doing 70 down that road unless it was rush hour.

I don't condone speeding, I'm just agreeing that many of the speed limits could be safely bumped up a bit.

[nobb]

I NEVER speed on that road, because there are always cops at the bottom of the hill. I admit 50kph is very low, the road looks like it is meant to be an 80.

Although, recently, they are installing traffic lights, so maybe it is a bit more justified. I guess another advantage to it being 50 is that it makes it easier for people around Kincora to turn onto Beddington...especially if your car is slow like mine.

[prae]

Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt
I agree, personally.

As far as the roads I drive on regularily and based on what I see 90% of the cars driving at safely anyways, my opinion is this:

-Glenmore should be 100
-Crowchild between Glenmore and Kensington should be 110
-14th st south should be 80 or 90
-McLeod trail south of Anderson road should be 110
-Highway 22X should be 100
-Anderson road should be 100

Many of these roads are safer than 100 or 110 km/h sections of the Deerfoot.


When they put a green light on 14th street at Heritage drive, they are going to be making ludacris amounts of money. I don't think I've ever seen anyone doing 70 down that road unless it was rush hour.

I don't condone speeding, I'm just agreeing that many of the speed limits could be safely bumped up a bit.

I would argue some of those are a bit on the high side. Speed limits have to be set with the idea that all vehicles can safely navigate the road at the posted speed. There's plenty of older cars&trucks on the road that I would NOT trust doing 110 on crowchild.

Whether or not those old and poorly maintained vehicles should be on the road at all is another debate.

One must also account for adverse conditions. I agree, 100 on most sections of glenmore is a perfectly reasonable and safe speed in ideal conditions, but throw in some snow or rain and it becomes a whole different story. YES, drivers should modulate their speed to account for this but I think you would agree that many drivers don't grasp this.

I agree with you, there are plenty of roads in Calgary that would benefit from a more reasonable posted speed. I don't see city council doing that as that would put them under fire for bullshit safety concerns etc etc.

[Q-TIP]

They might be installing traffic lights, but there are traffic lights at the same or shorter spacing on Crowchild between University DR and Kensington, those roads are still 60...

[kenny]

Originally posted by Mitsu3000gt

-Crowchild between Glenmore and Kensington should be 110
-14th st south should be 80 or 90
-McLeod trail south of Anderson road should be 110
-Highway 22X should be 100
-Anderson road should be 100

Many of these roads are safer than 100 or 110 km/h sections of the Deerfoot.

I don't condone speeding, I'm just agreeing that many of the speed limits could be safely bumped up a bit.

Crowchild Trail by Kensington cannot be 110, it would be extremely unsafe if you've ever driven there. Good luck driving from Bow Trail > Crowchild North > Memorial Drive. You would have to accelerate up to 110 km/h, cut over 2 lanes to make it to the offramp to get off Crowchild Trail and onto Memorial within about 60 meters.

One thing people often forget about when talking about speed limits is merging traffic (some cars wouldn't be able to reach proper speeds), out of towners that aren't familiar with the road, and adverse weather conditions. If the posted limit on Crowchild was 110, people would be going 120km/h even when its snowing.

[Q-TIP]

This section taken from ABD.org.uk is very interesting


"Enforcement of Speed Limits

It has been shown above that speed limits, even when set in accordance with sound scientific principles, are at best no more than a guide to a safe speed under average conditions. At the same time, speed limits are mandatory - it is an absolute offence in law to exceed them. These two facts do not sit well together. In the past, the police have traditionally used a degree of discretion in enforcing speed limits, but this has been reduced with the introduction of camera technology, at the same time as the scientific basis for speed limit setting is being abandoned.

These two trends are combining to create a crisis of confidence in the speed limit system and in the way enforcement is carried out. Speed cameras operate around the clock and make no allowance for changing road and traffic conditions. Furthermore, the rules of the speed camera hypothecation scheme mean that cameras can only be installed at places where the measured 85th percentile speed is well above the speed limit6. Since the 85th percentile is the speed chosen by the safest drivers, this means that cameras are installed at locations where it is safe to exceed the speed limit, not at locations where it is dangerous. This is clearly absurd and unjust."

[Mitsu3000gt]

Originally posted by prae


I would argue some of those are a bit on the high side. Speed limits have to be set with the idea that all vehicles can safely navigate the road at the posted speed. There's plenty of older cars&trucks on the road that I would NOT trust doing 110 on crowchild.

Whether or not those old and poorly maintained vehicles should be on the road at all is another debate.

One must also account for adverse conditions. I agree, 100 on most sections of glenmore is a perfectly reasonable and safe speed in ideal conditions, but throw in some snow or rain and it becomes a whole different story. YES, drivers should modulate their speed to account for this but I think you would agree that many drivers don't grasp this.

I agree with you, there are plenty of roads in Calgary that would benefit from a more reasonable posted speed. I don't see city council doing that as that would put them under fire for bullshit safety concerns etc etc.

Fair enough, but any road becomes less safe with poor weather. Regardless of the posted limit, people should be driving for the conditions. Deerfoot & the highways aren't safe in poor conditions either, and they have fairly high speed limits. The main problem is simply that a larger percentage of Calgary's drivers are retarded haha.

[Q-TIP]

While I agree some of those limits are too high, I would also argue that more study needs to be conducted to find the SAFEST speed limit, not just the LOWEST one that people will tolerate.

It has been PROVEN in Montana that when speed limits are increased to the 85th percentile that traffic accidents actually decrease in frequency.

[Mitsu3000gt]

Originally posted by kenny


Crowchild Trail by Kensington cannot be 110, it would be extremely unsafe if you've ever driven there. Good luck driving from Bow Trail > Crowchild North > Memorial Drive. You would have to accelerate up to 110 km/h, cut over 2 lanes to make it to the offramp to get off Crowchild Trail and onto Memorial within about 60 meters.

One thing people often forget about when talking about speed limits is merging traffic (some cars wouldn't be able to reach proper speeds), out of towners that aren't familiar with the road, and adverse weather conditions. If the posted limit on Crowchild was 110, people would be going 120km/h even when its snowing.

True, perhaps it should be 110 up until bow trail into downtown there. And yes, I commuted that road every single day to school for several years and most people were doing 110, starting to slow down around the downtown area. Past kensington it definitely shouldn't be 110. That whole bow trail/memoriel/crowchild intersection was designed very poorly IMO.

[Q-TIP]

FYI, I have started a site www.calgaryfairlimits.com to act as a posting board/discussion board on traffic issues in Calgary.

[Toma]

16th heading into Bowness from Foothills hospital.

That should be 70 clear through.

52nd heading from 17th SE into foothills industrial. 50? are you serious?

I agree we need a speed GUIDE, but enforcing an absolute limit with zero discretion is idiotic.

[Toma]

When the cops CONSTANTLY set up shop in the same area because people tend to NATURALLY speed there is bullshit. That means without a doubt, the limit is out of line there.

And don't get me going on "playground" zones which Ihave a fenced "grassy area" in which I have not seen a single child in for the last 7 years...

[hampstor]

That spot on beddington (just after stoney trail) is the local fishing hole for speed traps (both directions) during the day. Going southbound, you'll find them in the turning lane that goes into Hanson/Panorama.

They don't discriminate either, i've seen them pull over all types of vehicles - including gravel trucks.

During the day, the gravel/heavy duty trucks are moving way too fast thru that area and drive at times without regard for other vehicles and workers there. I welcome the lower speed limit if to just slow those guys down during the day.

However in other places, I agree with you... the limits are low and inconsistent.

[Q-TIP]

60 in that zone is not too fast for trucks. and I agree that they need to slow down for workers. However police shouldn't be ticketing them for speeding but rather driving without due care and attention. That is a much more severe fine and speaks more to the actual problem at hand.

[prae]

Originally posted by Toma
16th heading into Bowness from Foothills hospital.

That should be 70 clear through.

For the divided parts I guess I could agree, but once you get to the bowness area where it is undivided, I strongly disagree. Once you see limits much over 50-60km/h the road should be divided. period.

[Mar]

Speed limits aren't created based on what seems safe, there's criteria that must be met on the road before a certain limit can be posted. I think the restrictions for 100 or over is a grass divider outside the city or concrete inside the city and mandatory shoulder where people can pull off. If you were going over a bridge, that takes away your shoulder in case of an accident and reduces the speed limit accordingly. No matter how safe it seems.

When I was driving across the Queens Bridge into Manhattan, they dropped the speed limit crazy low and said fines for speeding are doubled. The bridge is suspended above water with no shoulder so if you cause an accident and close a lane or two on that, you are in big trouble.

[Kennyredline]

I'm sure that when speed limits are figured out, the question is "what speed will people travel at if we put up a 50 km/hr sign?"
So the question is, if a road can handle a speed of 60-65 km/hr, they'll put up a 50 km/hr sign, because that's the speed most people will probably do(60-65). IMO.
I don't think raising limits on a lot of roads is a good idea, mainly because more people are driving while eating, talking on their phones, and doing other stupid things behind the wheel. If I'm gonna hit by some fuckwad yakking on a cell phone, I'd rather them be doing 60km/hr than 100km/hr.

[Canmorite]

Blackfoot from 58th ave to Southland should be 100 km/h easily.

I wonder if the speed limits have something to do with the amount of lights or stopping traffic from 100km/h too often.

[sputnik]

Originally posted by kenny
One thing people often forget about when talking about speed limits is merging traffic (some cars wouldn't be able to reach proper speeds), out of towners that aren't familiar with the road, and adverse weather conditions. If the posted limit on Crowchild was 110, people would be going 120km/h even when its snowing.

This.