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  1. #1
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    Default CiviC LX

    hi there.... i am trying to get some suggestion regarding a engine swap...

    has anyone swapped a D17A1 to a more powerful B series or better engine and would you put in the money in to a 2001 Honda civic LX 4door sedan?

    or would you recommend i sell the car and start with a different car?

    Any suggestions?

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    Owning a 7th gen Civic myself, here are my suggestion in order of best:

    1) Sell the car; the 7th gen civic was not meant for speed and it's probably least supported in respect to worthwhile performance parts.

    2) If you're determined to swap the D17, the K series would be cheaper and faster. By that, I mean B series would require much more fabrication. By contrast, there are many people who've done K-Swaps (only one I know in Calgary) and I know none that have done B-swap except in the States. For K-swap, expect to spend at least 8 k if you're doing it yourself and almost double that if you want a shop to do it (not that worthwhile eh?).

    3) Bolt ons won't do much and if anything, you'd want D17A2 engine (EX/Canadian Si model) for better performance. Because if you put bolt-ons on your D17A1, you're just aspiring to be as good as a D17A2

    4) If you want to learn about cars, it's a nice car to learn on. I'd only recommend suspension work to make it handle better and other add-ons that are purely aesthetic. Strut bars, rear tie bars, sway bars, lowering springs all help. Intake, exhaust, and headers will help only slightly, but there was a guy who dyno'ed his LX with a DC header and gained 12 HP Again, these mods won't help much unless you swap or turbo your engine which costs more money and headaches in the long run.

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    I think a K swap can be done for less depending on the K engine and it will be the most potent engine wise.

    I would say between 6-10K Depending on how much you spend on the engine and if you do it vs members on here vs a shop.

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    Originally posted by Mr_ET
    I think a K swap can be done for less depending on the K engine and it will be the most potent engine wise.

    I would say between 6-10K Depending on how much you spend on the engine and if you do it vs members on here vs a shop.
    Mr_ET, you wanna help me do a K-swap? It's worth it to me if it's ~6 k. Probably best bang for buck performance/price would be Type S engine. Would be fun for a while!

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    ^^

    Depends which K you want.

    You can most likely get a k20a3 or a k24a3,4 swapped in for around 6k.

    A k20aR runs 5-6k for the engine itself.

    Also, the B series was done by a tuning company, can't remember which atm. It was completely custom and would not be worth it at all.

    The 7th gen is the bastard child of Honda and there is little to no aftermarket support.

    Maybe when they get cheaper to the stage where the egs and eks, they will finally have more parts.

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    how about a (K20A from a RSX Type-R)

    Valve Train:
    DOHC, i-VTEC, 16 Valve
    Transmission:
    Hydraulic
    Displacement:
    1998cc
    Horsepower:
    220 @ 8000rpm
    Torque:
    152 lb-ft @ 7000rpm
    Compression:
    11.5:1
    Redline:
    7900rpm

    and the k series recommend a smaller car because of the weight and speed
    Last edited by Civicmen; 09-08-2009 at 09:41 PM.

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    thats one of the best K series engines but you're looking at 7K just for that probably.

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    Originally posted by Disoblige


    Mr_ET, you wanna help me do a K-swap? It's worth it to me if it's ~6 k. Probably best bang for buck performance/price would be Type S engine. Would be fun for a while!
    Anytime bro :P

    Might not be the K you want but even an Accord K20 would really wake that car up.

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    Originally posted by Mr_ET


    Anytime bro :P

    Might not be the K you want but even an Accord K20 would really wake that car up.
    HMMM. I don't know if I'd want to put a CRV engine in there haha. I'd probably have to go at least EP3 for it to be anywhere worth it. I'd probably learn lots as well which will be worth it too, but the biggest problem is finding all the necessary parts. If I can do that and get a good estimate on pricing then I'm more than happy to go forth with it.

    Edit: Oh wait, not sure if I'm right about this but Accord engine would be K20A4 (same as CRV)?
    Last edited by Disoblige; 09-08-2009 at 10:01 PM.

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    No, the 4cyl accord has the k24, which is very similar to the other ~160hp k24's in the element and crv.

    The tsx has the k24a2, which is the 200hp version with the true i-vtec for performance.

    The other variations of the k24 will have i-vtec-e (e for economy).

    The k24a,3,4, etc will still be much peppier than the k20a3 (ep3) due to the increased torque. The hp is very similar and the weight difference is not that significant.

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    Correct the big difference is the Accord K24 makes 160 torque or around there whereas the K20a3 from an EP3 makes slightly less because of the smaller displacement.

    Imagine your civic with 166 hp and 160 torque stock

    Then you probably need a k pro to run it anyway and possibly a custom header and intake so that is probably a few more ponies so it would be quite potent and that K24 can probably be had for around 1K at the moment if you search a bit.

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    You first need to address what your goals are in swapping the motor. Are you going to race, or is this just for fun daily driving? Stock k series motors in EM2's don't put down overly impressive 1/4 mile times (low 14's maybe) without some kind of F/I. They are very heavy cars. The good news is, b/c they are a little closer in age to most k series motors, the swap isn't very complicated compared to older chassis civics.


    I got my k24a2 out of an 06 TSX (longblock, no starter, TB or harness) for 1,250 from Asteroid Auto parts.

    The CRV and Accord engines are both k24's but the accord is a k24a4 and the CRV is a k24a1. There are slight differences.


    I would definitely recommend going with a k24 whatever you do. The 7th gen civics are heavy bastards so a motor with a lot more torque would be better for day to day driving.

    To swap any k series into your 7th gen civic you're going to need;

    - k series longblock (price depends.....anywhere from $1,000 to $5k
    - k20 transmission. You need one from a k20......there are no mounts available to use a k24 tranny. (between $800 - $1200)
    - Engine Harness ($200ish)
    - Charge Harness ($150ish)
    - Chassis conversion harness ($350ish)
    - Homemade or DSS axles (depends..can be done cheaply by making it homemade....DSS Stage 2.9's are around $600 USD)
    - Complete fuel system (FPR, pump (optional), lines, rail) (Expect to spend a few hundred on fuel delivery)
    - K-Pro (around $1,250 new)
    - You're also going to need a few misc things like sensors and possibly mounts, depending on which motor you use (so say an extra $300 or so)
    - Custom / OTS swap header (you can find them for around $350 or so...ie k-tuned or DC sport, but if you want the best, expect to spend around $1,000)
    - Custom Exhaust ($500-$800)
    - Custom CAI ($150 maybe)
    - Solution for TB, depending on what motor you get. Some k series (like the TSX for example) use a drive-by-wire throttle system, which you won't be able to use with kpro. You are going to want a k20a2, or accord k24 TB, depending on motor and engine harness.
    - Clutch / Flywheel....or use the stock one, but resurface the flywheel for sure at the very least.
    - Mounts - $600 (Hybrid Racing or Hasport)
    - Shifter box / Cables (RSX, RSX-s....$200)

    So you're looking at around $6k to $10k depending on what you want if you do the work yourself.

    If you haven't already checked it out, go to k20a.org and you will find EVERYTHING you need to know about swapping a k series into your car.


    edit:: One more thing, read up on what the differences are between all of the k motors. For example you posted the k20a-R motor up. A k20a2 or k20z1 would be much cheaper depending on what you want to change in the motor. The differences (big ones) are compression ratio (which wouldn't matter if you want to change pistons) ECU (which won't matter if you want to use kpro) and cams (which won't matter if you want to use aftermarket cams). You can save money if you know what you want before you build it and buy a motor that suits that need. There's no sense spending $3k more on a k20a if you are going to change a few of the things that make it "better" than a k20a2 anyway.

    edit 2:: Shit I just keep on thinking of more stuff. OP, do you want "real" 3 lobe vtec like was in the old b-series motors? If you absolutely want that vtack attack you have 4 options

    k20a2 - 02-04 RSX-s. By far the most common
    K20z1 - 05-06 RSX-s
    K20z3 - 06+ Civic Si / CSX-s
    K24a2 - 02-present TSX (06+ had + 1 mm oversize valves and the most aggressive OEM cam profile, both low and high)
    k20a - From Integra Type R in Japan, Civic Type R in the UK...I think before 2006. These motors are super expensive.

    If you are serious about it, and want to know more (honestly there is a lot to think about) maybe we can meet up for a coffee or a beer sometime to discuss it.

    I know I'm going to think of more lol.
    Last edited by texasnick; 09-09-2009 at 08:52 AM.
    Texas Nick

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    Just a quick personal thought on the k series vs. B/H/D series engines.

    It is my honest opinion that God's gift to the Honda community (the FWD Honda community at least) is the k series engine. On paper, it doesn't look that much better than the b series until you look closer. The best thing about the k series is something called VTC, which allows the intake cam to vary it's angle continuously. It used to be (with b series) you would buy an adjustable intake cam gear and find the cam angle that makes the most power and set it there where it stays through all rpms. With VTC (50 degrees in all k20's....25 degrees in all k24's **note these aren't the actual cam angles like some think....it's a measurement of the moment in the intake/exhaust overlap) the intake cam continously changes allowing you to make more power throughout the entire rpm range.

    With a good tune, you can pick up 20 whp throughout the whole rpm range, all thanks to VTC.

    I remember back in the day when the fastest all motor hondas were all low 12 second cars. Now look at it. Sub 11 second FWD Hondas are popping up all over the place. I think the all motor record ATM is something like 9.7, and it was done with a k series.

    K is the Way
    Last edited by texasnick; 09-09-2009 at 09:03 AM.
    Texas Nick

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    Didin't Bisi get a record very close to that with an F from an Accord though? :P

    I agree with you the K is a very good engine and will fit very well in that car now it all depends how much you like it and how much effort you're willing to put into this type of project.

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    All motor?

    Link? Very interested. I always love learning about crazy times with underdog setups.
    Texas Nick

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    Yeah all motor and I just read about it on Honda Tuning but his website might have more info

    OP don't mean to thread jack sorry

    http://www.bisimoto.com/

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    Wow that's crazy!!!

    2006 Insight Unibody, F22A: 9.42; 150.3mph

    Also sorry to threadjack OP.
    Texas Nick

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    Since it's for fun daily driving (it is my daily driver), and I love that car to death to sell it, I'm now considering a K24 swap as well. I would invest as much time as possible with the project but would like to keep costs below 7 k if possible. Otherwise IMO, it won't be worth it anymore in terms of having something unique and fun for the EM2.

    Now just to do a bit more research and find the necessary parts! If anyone on here has found anything useful, I would love to hear from you. And thanks Mr_ET and texasnick for the useful information, I probably need much help from you guys for info and the swap itself as I've never done a swap before.

    Probably key thing now to see if project is a go is finding a cheap Accord engine first!

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    THANK YOU all for you feed backs and inputs .lol jk.... but coming to think of it i am just going to keep the civic and invest in to a 2002 RSX Type-R or S and don't forget 2010 Hyundai Genesis Coupe GT ...

    instead of going throw all the troubles and fun and excitement and headache and those nights with out sleep and wondering if the Turbo is going to work in the morning or not lol.... again thank you all
    Last edited by Civicmen; 09-09-2009 at 11:34 PM.

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    Originally posted by Civicmen
    THANK YOU all for you feed backs and inputs .lol jk.... but coming to think of it i am just going to keep the civic and invest in to a 2002 RSX Type-R or S and don't forget 2010 Hyundai Genesis Coupe GT ...

    instead of going throw all the troubles and fun and excitement and headache and those nights with out sleep and wondering if the Turbo is going to work in the morning or not lol.... again thank you all
    I'm curious to see a good Genesis build/project. Don't think there has been one on beyond.ca yet...

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