Omar Khadr Finally standing trial

[HiTempguy1]

Originally posted by CUG
[B]
Edit: So you turkeys understand a moderate like me a little bit better, it wouldn't matter to me if Khadr was a white kid from England who went to Church on Sundays, I would carry similar sentiments.

DING!

[sk65guy]

Originally posted by FraserB
BTW, the action in Afghanistan is NATO and UN backed. Also, based on the wording of UN resolutions on Iraq, the US could make case for invasion as enforcement of those resolutions.

There was no official resolution passed in the UN that supported the US invasion in iraq. obviously the US could make a case for invasion thats exactly what they did when they wrote the resolutions. no country on the security council voted for the resolutions because they knew they would be vetoed anyways. after colin powell delivered his speech about WMD and the world found out there were no weapons in iraq his career went to shit and so did the US invasion of iraq (they knew there weren't wmd before they went in). kofi annan made a statement after the invasion that the US invasion was against UN charter. So it really wasn't backed by UN or NATO and if you believe thats the case than find me some documents that clearly say this.

[Cos]

GUANTANAMO BAY U.S. NAVY BASE, Cuba — Omar Khadr is an admitted murderer and al-Qaida terrorist who manufactured and planted roadside bombs in Afghanistan.

And Khadr very likely will be returning to Canada in a year to serve out most of his still secret sentence.

He pleaded guilty to all five of the charges facing him here Monday as part of a plea bargain that will see him return to Canada after serving one more year in U.S. custody.

Canada’s diplomatic note — delivered here Sunday and included as part of the deal — was a key factor for Khadr agreeing to the deal and convinced one of Harper’s most skeptical critics Canada will let him serve his time in Canada.

“Mr. Khadr pleaded guilty this morning ... in exchange for the Canadian government agreeing to repatriate him back to Canada after one year,” said Dennis Edney, one of Khadr’s Canadian lawyers. “Canada’s language (in the diplomatic note) is sufficiently satisfactory to hold Canada to its position.”

The diplomatic note and the details of the deal will be released publicly later this week, although reports suggest the agreed-to sentence is for eight years, with the last seven to be served in Canada.




The prosecution in Khadr’s case said his admission of guilt puts to rest criticisms of the U.S. government for trying Khadr as a war criminal, and a guilty plea was more important than putting Khadr behind bars for life.

“Omar Khadr stands convicted of being a murderer, and also an al-Qaida terrorist. The evidence ... came from a source that the law recognizes as the most powerful evidence known to the law, and that is his own words,” said U.S. Navy Capt. John Murphy, chief prosecutor for the office of military commissions. “What you saw puts a lie to the long-standing argument by some that Omar Khadr is a victim.

“He’s not. He’s a murderer, and he is convicted by the strength of his own words.”

Khadr, wearing a dark suit and sporting a trimmed but full beard, hung his head low in the military courtroom and softly repeated “yes” as military judge Col. Pat Parrish painstakingly read off Khadr’s crimes and asked the Canadian to agree.

Parrish accepted Khadr’s guilty pleas to murder, attempted murder, supporting terrorism, spying and conspiracy.

The specifics of the deal and the sentence won’t be released until after the seven-member military jury hands down a sentence of their own following a hearing that’s expected to last several days.

Whichever sentence is less — the plea bargain’s or the jury’s — will apply.

Tabitha Speer, the widow of the U.S. Special Forces soldier Khadr fatally wounded with a grenade in a July 2002 firefight in Afghanistan, was in court Monday for Khadr’s guilty plea and, while sometimes tearing up, clutched her sister’s hand throughout the proceedings.

She will read a victim impact statement during the sentencing hearing, at which mental-health experts will debate Khadr’s age at the time of his crimes as a factor in sentencing.

Edney said pleading guilty was a “very, very difficult” decision for Khadr.

“Mr. Khadr was put into a hellish conflict ... whether to subject himself to a process that is not legal or go home,” Edney said, adding he and Khadr’s other Canadian lawyer Nathan Whitling think Khadr’s guilt is “fiction.

“In our view, Mr. Khadr is innocent.”

Khadr, now 24, was taken into U.S. custody when he was 15, following the 2002 firefight. He’s been held here since October of the same year.

[Godfuader]

Usually in war, battlefield killing is not prosecuted. But the United States contended that Mr. Khadr lacked the privilege of battlefield immunity because he wore no uniform, among other requirements of the laws of war.

The uniform issue also led to a scramble by the Obama legal team to rewrite commission rules on the eve of a pretrial hearing for Mr. Khadr. Because Central Intelligence Agency drone operators also kill while not wearing uniforms, they rewrote the rules to downgrade murder from a war crime to a domestic law offense.

http://topics.nytimes.com/top/refere...20khadr&st=cse

The pussy drone operators are doing the same thing he did, but we can rewrite commissions when we made an oopsy. 1st world methodology rules!! He pleaded guilty just to get into Canada. Torture me enough and Ill confess to anything.

[Feruk]

I can't believe they actually put him on trial. What possible charges can the USA lay against him that would actually stick? Wartime combat is not criminal murder... So what if he wasn't wearing a uniform? I'm not saying I support him in any way as I don't, but who gives the USA the right to put POW's (war on terror, bam) on trial? Especially in a foreign country.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[CUG]

I can't believe we're bringing him back to Canada.

[HiTempguy1]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak
^^ I agree actually, I think that when you are in a war and you kill somebody you are fighting that is not murder, it is a cold harsh reality of war.

Playing by modern rules dictates you to be wearing a uniform. You want modern rights, you play by modern rules.

The worst thing? Somebody could have just pulled the trigger. Done and done, nobody would have known.

[mx73someday]

[ZenOps]

Do the taliban have a uniform?

I thought it was just robes at most, kind of like Tibetan monks or Christian priests.

Wearing a uniform is not modern, its positively ancient. Usually defined by things like shield design and banners, or even coloured facepaint.

I'm pretty sure the mercenaries the US hired did not wear any uniforms (and for the most part - were sent in as frontline expendable soldiers) It would be very bad, if a merc wore a US army uniform.

Khadr could probably be considered a loose irregular, guerilla or even a merc (or even a familial conscripted "pitchfork" militant civilian) None of which wear uniforms.

Conscripts wear cookwear on their heads during war.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conscription

[Godfuader]

It is all about using convenient words to make yourself seem like the good guys. They will probably argue that the pussies piloting the drones have similar polos, which serves as a uniform under law of the highest court.

[Anomaly]

Originally posted by Godfuader

http://topics.nytimes.com/top/refere...adr&st=cse

The pussy drone operators are doing the same thing he did, but we can rewrite commissions when we made an oopsy. 1st world methodology rules!! He pleaded guilty just to get into Canada. Torture me enough and Ill confess to anything.

At the very least, he's guilty of treason.

[Godfuader]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak
Furthermore he was fighting against one of our allies at the time which makes him guilty of treason.

Originally posted by Anomaly

At the very least, he's guilty of treason.

Using treason would be a grey area.


According to Section 46 of the Criminal Code of Canada:

High treason

(1) Every one commits high treason who, in Canada,
(a) kills or attempts to kill Her Majesty, or does her any bodily harm tending to death or destruction, maims or wounds her, or imprisons or restrains her;
(b) levies war against Canada or does any act preparatory thereto; or
(c) assists an enemy at war with Canada, or any armed forces against whom Canadian Forces are engaged in hostilities, whether or not a state of war exists between Canada and the country whose forces they are.

Furthermore

Limitation
48. (1) No proceedings for an offence of treason as defined by paragraph 46(2)(a) shall be commenced more than three years after the time when the offence is alleged to have been committed.

He was not IN Canada at the time of the event. Prior to his confession they were saying it was friendly fire that killed the guy. How do we know that he wasn't working under cover as a covert spy for Canada....and him killing the yank could be filed under friendly fire? There have been plenty of "confessions" prior to Khadr, which did not lead to anything because of duress. Khadr was promised gang raping by big black guys, which would cause most 15 yr olds to take blame for anything.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[BrknFngrs]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak
A lot of the people supporting Khadr are trying to make it sound like he was out with Uncle Mohammad fishing or something... reality is he was there at that battle on his own free will, it was his choice to engage with US troops instead of fleeing. I don't give a shit if he threw the grenade or he was the look out, he was actively involved with enemy forces and it likely played a part in the US solders death.

Agreed, he's no victim in this situation.

I also disagree with the idea of pressing charges during a war; the reality is he should have been shot on site like any other hostile combatant and he should not be accepted back into Canada.

[ZenOps]

Not really...

He didn't kill a Canadian soldier, he killed a US soldier. In self defense as a child soldier arguably.

Now, we do have a strong pact with the US, but in any war there are even friendly fire incidents that have no penalty. The only way you can be accused of treason - is if you intentionally shoot your own friendly as in the case of "pull the trigger when in doubt", which is more traitorous than treasonous.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[ZenOps]

Its a grey area.

Yes, he intentionally travelled to the warzone and then got involved in conflict.

But if a women wears slutty clothes and heads to a bar at 2am does that mean shes "asking for it" too?

Being sympathetic to the middle east (and very possibly only his father) is not a crime in itself as George Galloway can attest to.

I wonder if a Taliban or a random brown person (instead of a US soldier) came running up to him pointing a gun at his face, would he have tried to kill him as well? I'm thinking "probably". Its a tough world out there.

[RickDaTuner]

Originally posted by BrknFngrs


Agreed, he's no victim in this situation.

I also disagree with the idea of pressing charges during a war; the reality is he should have been shot on site like any other hostile combatant and he should not be accepted back into Canada.

Considering all the Atrocities that occur during war, this actually sounds some what logical.

But taking a look a who Mr. Khadr is now through the eyes of the media and his published court interactions. It would seem that he is becoming a new individual, one could only hope to believe that this event is trully changing him.
He gave clues to this when giving his last words so to speak in court where he said that when released all he wanted to do is go to school and learn.
Something that does not sit completely in place with Muslim religion.
It gives you a sense of him realizing that what he did was wrong and is now trying to find the correct answers to life.
Almost as though he was brainwashed, In my opinion this is more certain than likely.

The question is though. Can society forget this relatively minor event?
Please don't get me wrong, A life was lost, but there have been far greater tragic acts that have gone undocumented or have just been brushed under the rug by state military personnel.

[Supa Dexta]

If you go to war against your own country because you dont like what they are doing.. Then they do this shit to you.. You think you wouldnt play along..

Oh no, Its all good.. Let me out and I'll be good!

...Turns around and plans something much bigger, with the new things he has learned, and the new people he has met.