Schumacher to drive for Brawn in Merc?

[scary_perry]

... and Damon Hill was a zero BTW.

He had an F1a car the years everyone else had F1b cars. Good on Williams for showing all the stupid bastards engineering at the other teams at the time how to make a proper car. Damon and Jack were never in the same league as Michael and their later results prove it. Even Frank said they made a mess out of the championships in years that Micheal should not have even been close.

I love that Michael did what he did to those palookas. Senna and Prost did the same shit to each other.

[Team_Mclaren]

LOL@ scary_perry

you need to get all your facts straight before you come here claiming shit.

[buh_buh]

@ the Schumi handjobs that are being handed out.
Schumacher may be the best of all time statistically, but to say he's the most talented of all time is laughable. He had the benefit of driving in an era where he had no competitors. If Senna hadn't died, Schumacher wouldn't even be mentioned in the same breath as Senna. The years Schumacher was dominant he was racing the likes of Ralf, DC, and the talentless Hill you speak of. Senna won his titles against Prost, Mansell and Piquet.

[AaronK]

Originally posted by buh_buh
Here's 2 reasons

If you are trying to say that in the first video Schumacher was in the wrong for cutting in on the corner, and that Hill did nothing wrong. What are you trying to say in the second one?

In the second one the roles are reversed, Schumacher is the one on the outside who does the same thing as Hill. How can you try and blame Schumacher for both? You are contradicting yourself.

[rage2]

Originally posted by AaronK
If you are trying to say that in the first video Schumacher was in the wrong for cutting in on the corner, and that Hill did nothing wrong. What are you trying to say in the second one?

In the second one the roles are reversed, Schumacher is the one on the outside who does the same thing as Hill. How can you try and blame Schumacher for both? You are contradicting yourself.

I hope you didn't just start watching F1.

Video 1. Schumacher crashes. Drives uber slow on the track. His race is over but decides to stay on the track. Hill is stuck behind Schumacher, drives around him. Schumacher turns well into hill to take him out, breaks his suspension. Stands around waiting for Hill to come back. After 2 laps realized Hill is out so he wins the championship. Starts celebrating at the crash site.

Video 2. Schumacher is having problems and is slowing down. Villeneuve catches up and goes on the inside. JV is ahead of MS going into the turn. Schumacher sees JV, natural reaction is to steer left to get out of the way which he does. Then all of a sudden he decides to ram JV by turning right sharply. Schumacher fails to damage the Williams enough, and ends up in the kitty litter. JV wins the championship.

In the first case, Williams (after Senna had died) decided not to protest out of respect.

In the second case, no protest was required, but all drivers were warned that taking anyone out for the sake of the championship will result in penalties. MS was DSQ'd from the 1997 results.

Blaming schumacher for both is obvious. He rammed both opponents in a championship deciding race with the ultimate goal of winning the championship. Nuff said.

Ferrari wasn't innocent in 97 either... they ordered Sauber (who were using Ferrari engines) to block JV at all costs because they knew the Williams was the faster car that day and would beat MS in a fair fight. It took half a lap for JV to lap the Sauber backmarker that day, with the Sauber cutting across and almost taking out JV. Cost him nearly 3 seconds that lap.

Don't get me wrong, Michael Schumacher is talented. Definately better than Hill, definately better than Villeneuve, and Hakkinen. Even in his last year, he parked his car at Monaco to fuck over Alonso and got penalized for it. He did not need to do any of this to win his championships. Some things never change.

[scary_perry]

Originally posted by buh_buh
@ the Schumi handjobs that are being handed out.
Schumacher may be the best of all time statistically, but to say he's the most talented of all time is laughable. He had the benefit of driving in an era where he had no competitors. If Senna hadn't died, Schumacher wouldn't even be mentioned in the same breath as Senna. The years Schumacher was dominant he was racing the likes of Ralf, DC, and the talentless Hill you speak of. Senna won his titles against Prost, Mansell and Piquet.

Senna was on the decline when he died. Driver aids extended guys like Prost and Senna. Take away driver aids and Prost retires, Senna dies taking a corner too fast on cold tires w/o active suspension and traction control.

Williams won with autopilot cars - all within rules and they were best good for them.

Schumi was competitive against them with a car that had practically no drivers aids. If you recall in-cockpit footage from those days, Prost looked like he was driving a Caddy to the golf course and Schumi was fighting his car like a motherfucker.

Anyone knowledgeable in the sport will tell you that the fact there seemingly was no competition for Schumi confirms how good he was. It's not like a whole generation of drivers took a decade off to make him look good.

His brain farts and cluster fucks are part of the appeal. He was win at all costs guy. So go back to your Andrea de Casaris and Minardi fan clubs.

[scary_perry]

Originally posted by Team_Mclaren
LOL@ scary_perry

you need to get all your facts straight before you come here claiming shit.

Totally useless post that adds nothing to the discussion - must be a mod.

[scary_perry]

Originally posted by rage2

I hope you didn't just start watching F1.

Video 1. Schumacher crashes. Drives uber slow on the track. His race is over but decides to stay on the track. Hill is stuck behind Schumacher, drives around him. Schumacher turns well into hill to take him out, breaks his suspension. Stands around waiting for Hill to come back. After 2 laps realized Hill is out so he wins the championship. Starts celebrating at the crash site.

Video 2. Schumacher is having problems and is slowing down. Villeneuve catches up and goes on the inside. JV is ahead of MS going into the turn. Schumacher sees JV, natural reaction is to steer left to get out of the way which he does. Then all of a sudden he decides to ram JV by turning right sharply. Schumacher fails to damage the Williams enough, and ends up in the kitty litter. JV wins the championship.

In the first case, Williams (after Senna had died) decided not to protest out of respect.

In the second case, no protest was required, but all drivers were warned that taking anyone out for the sake of the championship will result in penalties. MS was DSQ'd from the 1997 results.

Blaming schumacher for both is obvious. He rammed both opponents in a championship deciding race with the ultimate goal of winning the championship. Nuff said.

Ferrari wasn't innocent in 97 either... they ordered Sauber (who were using Ferrari engines) to block JV at all costs because they knew the Williams was the faster car that day and would beat MS in a fair fight. It took half a lap for JV to lap the Sauber backmarker that day, with the Sauber cutting across and almost taking out JV. Cost him nearly 3 seconds that lap.

Don't get me wrong, Michael Schumacher is talented. Definately better than Hill, definately better than Villeneuve, and Hakkinen. Even in his last year, he parked his car at Monaco to fuck over Alonso and got penalized for it. He did not need to do any of this to win his championships. Some things never change.

I agree with your assessment, as would any rational person. But MS was not the only scumbag to win a championship - look at what Jody Schekter did to Gilles Villeneuve.

You can't argue the facts of his career and his accomplishments. In that regard he is the best ever, and will take some beating.

As for his character? Who cares? Half the grid would have done the same thing in those circumstances.

[rage2]

Originally posted by scary_perry
Senna was on the decline when he died. Driver aids extended guys like Prost and Senna. Take away driver aids and Prost retires, Senna dies taking a corner too fast on cold tires w/o active suspension and traction control.

Williams won with autopilot cars - all within rules and they were best good for them.

Schumi was competitive against them with a car that had practically no drivers aids. If you recall in-cockpit footage from those days, Prost looked like he was driving a Caddy to the golf course and Schumi was fighting his car like a motherfucker.

Anyone knowledgeable in the sport will tell you that the fact there seemingly was no competition for Schumi confirms how good he was. It's not like a whole generation of drivers took a decade off to make him look good.

His brain farts and cluster fucks are part of the appeal. He was win at all costs guy. So go back to your Andrea de Casaris and Minardi fan clubs.

Your post just goes to show that you know absolutely nothing about F1.

Senna on the decline and sucked when there was no TC and ABS? Senna outqualified teammate Hill by almost 2 seconds the first race with no driver aids. He was ahead of MS and lost to him in the pitstops. Oh right, Benetton got busted for cheating, they removed a filter in the fuel rig to allow them to shave a second or 2 in refuelling time. They also busted them for having TC and LC hidden in the ECU later on.

In the race, Senna LAPPED his teammate in the same car, outqualifying him in the next 2 races by over 1/2 a sec before his death, which was attributed to a mechanical failure. That sure shows a driver on the decline.

As for the autopilot eras, Williams was the only team that figured it out and mastered it. Senna was in a McLaren that was underpowered and handled poorly, and was driving on a race by race basis because he felt the car was shit. And he still hauled that POS to a few wins.

Originally posted by scary_perry
As for his character? Who cares? Half the grid would have done the same thing in those circumstances.

No they wouldn't have, and there's been some close championships where the opportunity was there.

[rage2]

Originally posted by scary_perry
I agree with your assessment, as would any rational person. But MS was not the only scumbag to win a championship - look at what Jody Schekter did to Gilles Villeneuve.

Totally missed this... how is this even comparable?? Villeneuve lost the championship to Scheckter because Villeneuve was loyal to Ferrari and followed Ferrari team orders.

[scary_perry]

Originally posted by rage2

Totally missed this... how is this even comparable?? Villeneuve lost the championship to Scheckter because Villeneuve was loyal to Ferrari and followed Ferrari team orders.

Yeah, you are right. I just remember being mad about the final result.

Regardless. My point is that there are lots of scumbags in F1 - ad in the history of the sport there are lots of occasions when sporting conventions were not followed (fixing races, blocking tactics to secure next year's drive or smashing folks off the track) you can argue that all you want.

As for Senna being faster than Hill... at one point in his career Hill was seen a as good replacement for Giovanna Amati. Enough said? He got his drive at Williams because he was a clear number two - the other drivers they had would have competed too much with Prost or Senna.

Hill won a championship when his car was much better than everything else on the track. When he had a crap car, he got crap results.

Schumi got good results period (like Senna) - and because of that eventually he got the good cars.

Senna was 34 when he died. He had 2-3 years left of competitive racing. He would have finished with 55-60 wins.

[Xtrema]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/moto...ne/8371097.stm

http://planetf1.com/story/0,18954,3213_5706009,00.html

[95EagleAWD]

I can't see that happening... Schumi's still a tech consultant to Ferrari.

[Roaring G60]

As a side note, Schumi is currently in Vegas at a top level karting event. other notable attendee's; Seb Buemi, Nelson piquet Jr. as several current kart world champions.

[scary_perry]

I could see it happening because:
- Merc paid for his ride when he started
- Ferrari are not the same without Brawn and Todt
- Does Schumi like Alonso?
- Going to Merc has mega marketing value (the team won't compete for wins)
- he would like to win 100

I could not see it happening because:
- win ratio will come down he likes being in the same class as Prost and Senna
- he will test the car and get a sense for whether it can win or not
- he can always come back later when Merc has an MP4/4-esque or FW15c-esque world beater (maybe next, next year??)

[Smartiepants]

It's a brilliant move for Brawn if they get him in, I'd think sponsorships selling would be much easier.

[Zephyr]

Not happening:
http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/headline...23090811.shtml

Ross Brawn has shot down intensifying speculation that Michael Schumacher is set to return to Formula One in 2010.

Brawn, who was Ferrari's technical director throughout Schumacher's ultra-successful career with the Italian team, is now the team principal of Mercedes Grand Prix.

Rumours linking Schumacher with the recently renamed team continued to grow over the weekend, when his manager Willi Weber confirmed a meeting in Abu Dhabi three weeks ago between the 40-year-old, Brawn and Daimler chairman Dieter Zetsche.

However, when asked about the speculation by Bild, Brawn replied: "There's nothing to it except a dream of the media.

"Michael would have come back temporarily for Ferrari, but he doesn't want to start a new career," said the Briton.
Click here to find out more!


Schumacher's manager Weber said the German often speaks with Brawn, but added that the seven time world champion "has not said anything to me personally about contact with Mercedes over a driver's contract".

Meanwhile, confirmation of Nico Rosberg's move to Mercedes is edging nearer, with both sides now alluding to a deal. It is an open secret that the 24-year-old German has inked a contract to race with the Brackley-based team.

“I cannot tell you yet, my desire is to have two experienced drivers,” Brawn told Bild. "After four years in Formula One, I would count Nico Rosberg as an experienced driver."

[Alpine Autowerks]

Originally posted by scary_perry


His brain farts and cluster fucks are part of the appeal. He was win at all costs guy. So go back to your Andrea de Casaris and Minardi fan clubs.

MS had no appeal his "win and all costs" attitude was taken to a DISGUSTING extreme that took:
- the support of contractually obligated #2 driver
- the teams technical cheating
-the always suspected and now exposed support of the series rule makers
- the support of stewards ( remember Montoya getting penalized for passing MS on the outside)


and yet he still had to use his vehicle as weapon when all of the above still left his championship in jeopardy at the last race of the year at least 3 times

[buh_buh]

Might be happening again:

http://www.autosport.com/news/grapevine.php/id/80554

[DJ Lazy]

Originally posted by buh_buh
Might be happening again:

http://www.autosport.com/news/grapevine.php/id/80554

Kinda surprised that his neck has gotten THAT much better where now he can drive... Has he even been testing since last time to see if his neck is strong enough yet?