Another Proposed Points Change

[Mibz]

http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80521

Formula 1 is set for a radical alteration to its points system in 2010 if the World Motor Sport Council approves an F1 Commission proposal to give points to the top 10 finishers in each race.

In today's Commission meeting, chaired by Bernie Ecclestone and attended by FIA president Jean Todt, a new scoring system was put forward which will award 25 points to each race winner, 20 for second place, 15 for third and 10 for fourth, before descending 8-6-5-3-2-1 for fifth through 10th positions.

The change has been proposed to take into account the increased field for 2010, when the addition of the new entrants will take the grid up to 26 cars, its highest figure since 1995.

Assuming it is approved by the WMSC, the change would be the first revision to the points system since the number of scoring drivers per race was increased from six to eight in 2003.

The F1 Commission also agreed that its Sporting Working Group sub-committee should develop "detailed proposals to improve the show" that would take effect next year, and that "the FIA and FOM will further collaborate to enhance the communication and promotion of the championship to the media and its worldwide fanbase."

I like the idea of 10 cars getting points but I think the top spots should be closer together.

[buh_buh]

this is like medals without the medals and giving mercy points to those who don't finish on the podium.
I say go back to the old days and pre-qualifying, keep 20 cars on the grid, and keep the top 8 as points finishers.
26 cars on the grid is too many, especially when so many of these are going to be new, uncompetitive teams. But this is a financial decision, not a sporting decision, right Bernie?

[Chris Elyea]

Originally posted by buh_buh
this is like medals without the medals and giving mercy points to those who don't finish on the podium.
I say go back to the old days and pre-qualifying, keep 20 cars on the grid, and keep the top 8 as points finishers.
26 cars on the grid is too many, especially when so many of these are going to be new, uncompetitive teams. But this is a financial decision, not a sporting decision, right Bernie?

Agree about the medals without the medals, don't agree about pre-qualifying.

If you allow a team entry into F1, you have to let them race or they won't get enough sponsorship dollars to survive. I have no idea why they want to keep changing the scoring system - have we not had a whole bunch of great battles for the title?

[buh_buh]

well its all about money, right? Bernie just wants more dollars in his pocket, so now we're having 26 cars on the grid instead of 20, though probably 18 of them will be uncompetitive. These backmarkers aren't in F1 to win any races, they're just there to 1) get in the way of the real racing going on, and 2) put $$$ into Bernie's pockets.

I'm all for seeing Force India winning races, and Super Aguri making passes on McLaren, but I think there are just going to be way too many uncompetitive cars on the grid for next year, and by the addition of these slower cars takes away from the excitement rather than adding to it.

[Chris Elyea]

Here comes the two-tiered racing FOTA was warning us about, right? So we toss those at the back a few more points to give them something to hope for and a lot more points at the front for the real competitors.

[Mibz]

Confirmed:
http://www.formula1.com/news/headlin.../12/10279.html
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/80531
http://www.planet-f1.com/story/0,189...765156,00.html

[Hakkola]

Originally posted by buh_buh
well its all about money, right? Bernie just wants more dollars in his pocket, so now we're having 26 cars on the grid instead of 20, though probably 18 of them will be uncompetitive. These backmarkers aren't in F1 to win any races, they're just there to 1) get in the way of the real racing going on, and 2) put $$$ into Bernie's pockets.

It's a business, of course it's about the money. Are you saying F1 is not allowed to make profits?

[rage2]

Originally posted by buh_buh
I say go back to the old days and pre-qualifying, keep 20 cars on the grid, and keep the top 8 as points finishers.

Only top 6 got points back in the day, until around 2000 when they made the change to give points to the top 8.

So many more drivers can brag that they scored a f1 world championship point now with the new system.

[H4LFY2nR]

For the backmarker teams to get the money to be able to afford to develop competitive cars they need something like this. It's easier to get money if you can say "we beat X number of teams", even if it was for one of the last positions. So, this may help prevent having, say, 3 teams finish with zero points at the end of the season. The point spread between the top 3 is still the same as before, with slightly less percentage of the points awarded for 4th and down. So this should increase the push for podium finishes, without making it a medal system, and giving some points to the backmarkers for their sponsorship needs.

It seems a little silly that it changes so often, but it's not THAT drastic of a change to worry about.

[Mibz]

Originally posted by H4LFY2nR
The point spread between the top 3 is still the same as before, with slightly less percentage of the points awarded for 4th and down.

25 points to each race winner, 20 for second place, 15 for third and 10 for fourth, before descending 8-6-5-3-2-1 for fifth through 10th positions.

[buh_buh]

Originally posted by Hakkola


It's a business, of course it's about the money. Are you saying F1 is not allowed to make profits?

yeah of course, but not at the expense of the sport. Look at the watered down talent that's already in F1 with a 20 car grid. Next year, there's even going to be more unqualified drivers with super licenses. The sport should take precedence over business. F1 is already a shit show, and its pretty clear everything they do, down to the on track rulings are business decisions. F1 is more of a show than it is a sport now.

Originally posted by rage2

Only top 6 got points back in the day, until around 2000 when they made the change to give points to the top 8.

I know, I was just referring to the pre-qualifying aspect of back in the day.

I realize teams that don't get track time on sunday can't make any sponsorship dollars, but I think there's too many cars on the grid as it is. The way things are going, we're going to have a 36 car grid in a few years. All I'm saying is Bernie should make just one decision based on the well-being of the sport, and not his pockets.

[DJ Lazy]

Fuck, I don't know what to think about this.....

Certainly looks like a medals system to me..

What's wrong with just?

10th - 1
9th - 2
8th - 3
7th - 5
6th - 6
5th - 8
4th - 10
3rd - 12
2nd - 14
1st - 16

[H4LFY2nR]

Originally posted by Mibz

1st. 25/25 vs 10/10 ---> 100% of max points
2nd. 20/25 vs 8/10 ---> 80% of max points
3rd. 15/25 vs 6/10 ---> 60% of max points

4th. 10/25 vs 5/10 ---> 40% vs 50%
5th. 8/25 vs 4/10 ---> 32% vs 40%
6th. 6/25 vs 3/10 ---> 24% vs 30%
7th. 5/25 vs 2/10 ---> 20% vs 20%
8th. 3/25 vs 1/10 ---> 12% vs 10%
9th. 2/25 ---> 8%
10th. 1/25 ---> 4%

Here you can see that the percentage difference to what the race winner takes home hasn't changed for the top three, and the rest get around 10% less to accommodate the 9th and 10th points paying positions.


And to compare to the total points given in the race:

1st. 25/95 vs 10/39 ---> 26.3% vs 25.6%
2nd. 20/95 vs 8/39 ---> 21.1% vs 20.5%
3rd. 15/95 vs 6/39 ---> 15.8% vs 15.4%

4th. 10/95 vs 5/39 ---> 10.5% vs 12.8%
5th. 8/95 vs 4/39 ---> 8.4% vs 10.3%
6th. 6/95 vs 3/39 ---> 6.3% vs 7.7%
7th. 5/95 vs 2/39 ---> 5.3% vs 5.2%
8th. 3/95 vs 1/39 ---> 3.2% vs 2.6%
9th. 2/95 ---> 2.1%
10th. 1/95 ---> 1.1%

Nothing significant has changed, the top three get slightly more percentage, and the rest get ever so slightly less.

And finally to compare to the whole season*:

1st. 25/1615 vs 10/663 ---> 1.55% vs 1.51%
2nd. 20/1615 vs 8/663 ---> 1.24% vs 1.21%
3rd. 15/1615 vs 6/663 ---> 0.93% vs 0.90%

4th. 10/1615 vs 5/663 ---> 0.62% vs 0.75%
5th. 8/1615 vs 4/663 ---> 0.50% vs 0.60%
6th. 6/1615 vs 3/663 ---> 0.37% vs 0.45%
7th. 5/1615 vs 2/663 ---> 0.31% vs 0.30%
8th. 3/1615 vs 1/663 ---> 0.19% vs 0.15%
9th. 2/1615 ---> 0.12%
10th. 1/1615 ---> 0.06%

*used only 17 races of 2010 vs 17 races in 2009 to make comparison fair.


In conclusion, nothing really changed

[buh_buh]

So with the new point system, this is what last years top 8 would've been:

Button: 230.5
Vettel: 203
Rubens: 187
Webber: 178
Hamilton: 123
Raikkonen: 119
Rosberg: 77
Trulli: 83

So there's no change in standings, they're just handing out more loser points and making the standings less tight.

[Mibz]

Touche Asians.

[Chris Elyea]

It's no longer just a proposal: Points system approved

I recall that Bernie's medal system was approved before being voted down after opposition from the teams, drivers, and almost everybody, but I don't hear the teams and drivers saying anything pro or con this time.

[cloud7]

I think giving more points further down the standings is not a bad idea. It probably won't affect the front running drivers and teams but it differentiate the bad teams/drivers from the worst teams/drivers on the grid. To til now, it doesn't matter if you consistently finish 9th or consistently finish last, you get no points. With the new system you are rewarded and separated from the true backmarkers.

Some say that there will be too many cars on the grid next year. I really don't think so. I think recently people are just used to and perhaps like watching 18-22 cars on the grid. There is nothing wrong with having 26 cars on the grid. It is by no means too many IMO.

[Mibz]

Hey hey, they're not done fucking around yet!
Link

The Scuderia Ferrari's Team Principal Stefano Domenicali has hinted at a possible revision to the 2010 points scoring system, where extra points might be earned by achieving pole position during qualifying and setting the fastest lap during the race. Domenicali said to the Italian newspaper 'La Stampa': "Yes. The scoring is likely to be revised; there is a proposal to reward the pole position and the fastest lap of the race."

The FIA's Sporting Working Group (SWG) is scheduled to meet in January and will then decide if new rules are to be approved for use in the 2010 Formula One season.

[DJ Lazy]

^^ That's just silly...