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Thread: Google to Pull out of China over Censorship

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    Default Google to Pull out of China over Censorship

    Google threat to leave China a rare show of business defiance
    Joe McDonald
    07:07 EST Wednesday, Jan 13, 2010


    Beijing — The threat by Google Inc. to pull out of China over censorship is a rare display of defiance in a system where foreign companies have long accepted intrusive controls to gain access to a huge and growing market.

    Dismayed by the prospect of a China without Google, visitors left flowers at its Beijing headquarters Wednesday as Web sites buzzed with words of support and appeals to stay.

    “I felt it's a pity and hope it will not withdraw from the Chinese market,” said a man who left flowers at the building in the high-tech Haidian district and would give only his surname, Chang. “Google played a key role in the growth of our generation. The control (of the Internet) is excessive.”


    In industries from automaking to fast food, companies have been forced to allow communist authorities to influence – and sometimes dictate – their choice of local partners, where to operate and what products to sell.

    Web companies have endured criticism for cooperating with a communist system that tightly controls information. Google, Yahoo Inc. , Microsoft Corp. and others have acceded to pressure to block access to politically sensitive material.

    “The Internet is like media, and the media are under tight government control, so that poses additional challenges for foreign Internet companies compared with, say, manufacturers of TV sets, mobile phones or autos,” said Edward Yu, president of Analysys International, an Internet research firm in Beijing.

    Google's decision even to talk publicly was rare in a system where Chinese officials react angrily to criticism. Officials have wide regulatory discretion and companies avoid saying anything that might prompt retaliation.

    China's foreign ministry and Ministry of Industry and Information Technology did not respond to requests for comment but the state Xinhua News Agency cited an unidentified official as saying the government was seeking more information from Google. Phone calls to Google spokespeople in Beijing and Hong Kong were not answered.

    Comments left on Chinese Internet bulletin boards praised Google's stance and appealed to the California-based search giant not to leave.

    “Google is a great soldier of freedom. You don't bend to the devils,” said a note on the site Tianya.cn.

    A posting on www.mop.com pleaded, “Google please don't go. We can't let you go. Real man, we support you.”

    A photo on a Chinese Web site showed a visitor outside the Google building bowing in a traditional gesture of respect.

    China's growing consumer market is especially important to many companies at a time when global demand has plunged. The government is forecasting 8.3 per cent economic growth for 2009 and China is on track to overtake Japan as the second-largest economy.

    China has the world's most-populous Internet market, with 338 million people online as of June, and foreign Internet companies eager for a share of that.

    But despite risking damage to their reputations by cooperating with the government, they have struggled to make headway against intense competition from Chinese rivals. Yahoo, eBay Inc. and others have given up and turned over control of their China operations to local partners. Google is the last global Internet company to manage its own China arm.

    Google trails local competitor Baidu Inc. but has gained market share at the expense of smaller rivals. Google had 31.8 per cent of search revenues in 2009, versus 60.9 per cent for Baidu, according to Analysys.

    Google created its China-based Google.cn site in 2006, agreeing to censor results by excluding sites to which access was blocked by government filters, popularly known as the Great Firewall of China.

    Despite that cooperation, Beijing accused Google last year of spreading pornography and access to the site was temporarily blocked. The company's video site, YouTube.com, is unavailable to users in China.

    Google said Tuesday it would stop censoring search results on Google.cn. That would allow users to find politically sensitive photos and Web sites abroad, though downloading them might still be barred by government filters. It also said it had discovered that computer hackers had tricked human-rights activists into exposing their e-mail accounts to outsiders.

    On Wednesday, Google.cn said its top search term of the day was “Tiananmen,” possibly due to Web surfers looking for material on the government's violent crackdown on 1989 pro-democracy protests. The No. 2 search topic was “Google leaving China.”

    Google.cn appeared to be still censoring results. A search for the banned Falun Gong spiritual movement returned a message saying the browser could not open the page. A notice on the site says some results were deleted in line with regulations.

    Google managers told employees to go home and they did not know whether to come back Thursday, said an employee who spoke on condition of anonymity because she was not authorized to talk to reporters. Google is a sought-after employer and has long had its pick of China's brightest university graduates.

    Ran Yunfei, a magazine editor and blogger in Sichuan province in China's southwest who is known for his liberal views, likened Google's threatened departure to that of a dissident leaving China for freedom.

    “I don't support the departure of all dissidents. Only those obedient to the officials would remain. That would too well suit the taste of the dictatorial regime,” Ran wrote on his blog, which is hosted outside China.

    Good on Google.
    TRUTH: it's the new hate speech.
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    People here (China) are so blinded by the government here that even those informed and aware of all the attrocities commited by the government have given up trying since it's dangerous and they just feel helpless against a regime like this.

    For the rest of the country, they are so blinded and led by false information from the government that they think every other country is decadent and will soon be inferior to China. Hell, the government has them hating the Dalai Lama's guts because he "goes around the world like the devil polluting the minds of uninformed decadent governments".

    Good on google for finally standing up to the bullshit censorship going on here. FFS, death depictions in World of Warcraft was apparently too disturbing and violent according to China's censorship bureau. So China has it's own version of World of Warcraft because of that.

    They live in such a self created bubble here. "it's for the good of the people to preserve decency and morality unlike the decadent countries around the world". Such a pompous attitude that assumes that they are better than everyone else by denying exposure to anything. I can't wait for this bullshit self-made bubble to explode. Governments should answer to the people, not the other way around.

    ./endrant
    Originally posted by Redlyne_mr2
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    I doubt Google will actually pull out. Though Baidu (its leading competitor) has about 70% market share over there I believe, Google has spent billions developing language translation software. The company ahs also been working with the Chinese government helping to develop the role out of 3G wireless networks not to mention the relatioships its been developing with Chinese universities and research institutes. In my opinion, both parties stand to lose alot as China needs Google for new technology and Google needs China as it represents one of the biggest growing marketsfor hte company aside from Brazila and India.
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    WTF is Baidu?
    Originally posted by Go4Long
    or else what? you'll turn on the caps lock?
    you do realize this is the internet right? lol
    Originally posted by rob the knob
    mar, you are good guy at heart
    you must realize your limitations
    then you will be happy if you fine place in live
    Originally posted by blitz
    Jesus man, I know you like Transformers, but you need to get out more. No one should get this upset over a movie based on children's toys.

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    Not a huge surprise.

    But I'm not so sure its Google pulling out as much as China pushing them out. China doesn't want Microsoft in the market either, or Apple for that matter.

    Censorship is everywhere - its necessary even on forums like this.
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    Originally posted by Mar
    WTF is Baidu?
    google it?

    I'm assuming its another search engine that originated in China???

    edit: ya according to google search results it says its a search engine, main headquarters are in beijing and serves China and Japan, available only in Chinese or Japanese.
    Last edited by l/l/rX; 01-13-2010 at 11:19 AM.

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    Originally posted by Mar
    WTF is Baidu?
    Google clone

    http://www.baidu.com/

    It's a double edge sword being in business in China. There's no law and no respect of IP. You will have to accept the piracy of your technology to access their consumers.

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    Yahoo backs Google on China

    14:06 EST Wednesday, Jan 13, 2010


    Sunnyvale, Calif. — Yahoo Inc. supports rival Google Inc.'s threatened departure from China because of computer attacks that pried into the e-mail accounts of human rights activists.

    In a statement Wednesday, Yahoo said it's “aligned” with Google's reaction to the hacking that originated within China.

    Google has promised to stop censoring its search results in China, defying the country's government. The move may result in Google pulling out of China completely.

    Yahoo, based in Sunnyvale, Calif., closed its offices in China in 2005 when it sold its business there to the Alibaba Group. As part of that deal, Yahoo retains a 39 per cent stake in Alibaba that represents one of Yahoo's most valuable assets.

    Yahoo spokeswoman Nina Blackwell declined on Wednesday to say whether its solidarity with Google would cause the company to sell its Alibaba holdings.

    Before selling its Chinese business, Yahoo's co-operation with the Chinese government angered human rights activists and U.S. lawmakers. Much of the scalding criticism focused on Yahoo's role in the jailing of two Chinese journalists. The evidence against them included e-mail that Yahoo turned over to the Chinese government.

    In 2007, Yahoo settled a U.S. lawsuit filed on behalf of the Chinese journalists. Shortly before the case was settled, a U.S. lawmaker denounced the company's executives as moral “pygmies” during a Congressional hearing.
    TRUTH: it's the new hate speech.
    In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. - Orwell

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    I hope the world puts more pressure on China.

    Good on Google and Yahoo! for supporting freedom of information.

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    BTW, the story always comes across as censorship but it's more about getting hack and loss of intellectual properties.

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    Originally posted by ZenOps
    Not a huge surprise.

    But I'm not so sure its Google pulling out as much as China pushing them out. China doesn't want Microsoft in the market either, or Apple for that matter.

    Censorship is everywhere - its necessary even on forums like this.
    Umm, this is more to do with being hacked than censorship...

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    Seen the news about the topic. It doesn't matter if Google or Yahoo wants to withdraw from China. As far I'm concerned, the Chinese government like to control its citizens under their power. It's a big issue of pride in themselves...

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    http://www.technologyreview.com/business/24361/

    Removing censorship on Google.cn is more a retaliation on the hack.

    It will be interesting that Internet is now another battle ground. And it will not be won on brawn but on brains which China got shit tons.

    Scary.
    Last edited by Xtrema; 01-14-2010 at 11:36 AM.

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    Originally posted by l/l/rX


    google it?

    I'm assuming its another search engine that originated in China???

    edit: ya according to google search results it says its a search engine, main headquarters are in beijing and serves China and Japan, available only in Chinese or Japanese.
    But isn't Google's searching algorithm superior? Why are people dumb? I don't get it, if option A is better than option B, why use option B? Ever?
    Originally posted by Go4Long
    or else what? you'll turn on the caps lock?
    you do realize this is the internet right? lol
    Originally posted by rob the knob
    mar, you are good guy at heart
    you must realize your limitations
    then you will be happy if you fine place in live
    Originally posted by blitz
    Jesus man, I know you like Transformers, but you need to get out more. No one should get this upset over a movie based on children's toys.

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    Originally posted by Mar
    But isn't Google's searching algorithm superior? Why are people dumb? I don't get it, if option A is better than option B, why use option B? Ever?
    my guess is that in China... the people from option B hacked option A and took that algorithm.

    Google has already said that they dont make any money in China...

    this sets a valuable precedent.

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    Here's the actual post from Googles Blog:

    A new Approach to China

    1/12/2010 03:00:00 PM
    Like many other well-known organizations, we face cyber attacks of varying degrees on a regular basis. In mid-December, we detected a highly sophisticated and targeted attack on our corporate infrastructure originating from China that resulted in the theft of intellectual property from Google. However, it soon became clear that what at first appeared to be solely a security incident--albeit a significant one--was something quite different.

    First, this attack was not just on Google. As part of our investigation we have discovered that at least twenty other large companies from a wide range of businesses--including the Internet, finance, technology, media and chemical sectors--have been similarly targeted. We are currently in the process of notifying those companies, and we are also working with the relevant U.S. authorities.

    Second, we have evidence to suggest that a primary goal of the attackers was accessing the Gmail accounts of Chinese human rights activists. Based on our investigation to date we believe their attack did not achieve that objective. Only two Gmail accounts appear to have been accessed, and that activity was limited to account information (such as the date the account was created) and subject line, rather than the content of emails themselves.

    Third, as part of this investigation but independent of the attack on Google, we have discovered that the accounts of dozens of U.S.-, China- and Europe-based Gmail users who are advocates of human rights in China appear to have been routinely accessed by third parties. These accounts have not been accessed through any security breach at Google, but most likely via phishing scams or malware placed on the users' computers.

    We have already used information gained from this attack to make infrastructure and architectural improvements that enhance security for Google and for our users. In terms of individual users, we would advise people to deploy reputable anti-virus and anti-spyware programs on their computers, to install patches for their operating systems and to update their web browsers. Always be cautious when clicking on links appearing in instant messages and emails, or when asked to share personal information like passwords online. You can read more here about our cyber-security recommendations. People wanting to learn more about these kinds of attacks can read this Report to Congress (PDF) by the U.S.-China Economic and Security Review Commission (see p. 163-), as well as a related analysis (PDF) prepared for the Commission, Nart Villeneuve's blog and this presentation on the GhostNet spying incident.

    We have taken the unusual step of sharing information about these attacks with a broad audience not just because of the security and human rights implications of what we have unearthed, but also because this information goes to the heart of a much bigger global debate about freedom of speech. In the last two decades, China's economic reform programs and its citizens' entrepreneurial flair have lifted hundreds of millions of Chinese people out of poverty. Indeed, this great nation is at the heart of much economic progress and development in the world today.

    We launched Google.cn in January 2006 in the belief that the benefits of increased access to information for people in China and a more open Internet outweighed our discomfort in agreeing to censor some results. At the time we made clear that "we will carefully monitor conditions in China, including new laws and other restrictions on our services. If we determine that we are unable to achieve the objectives outlined we will not hesitate to reconsider our approach to China."

    These attacks and the surveillance they have uncovered--combined with the attempts over the past year to further limit free speech on the web--have led us to conclude that we should review the feasibility of our business operations in China. We have decided we are no longer willing to continue censoring our results on Google.cn, and so over the next few weeks we will be discussing with the Chinese government the basis on which we could operate an unfiltered search engine within the law, if at all. We recognize that this may well mean having to shut down Google.cn, and potentially our offices in China.

    The decision to review our business operations in China has been incredibly hard, and we know that it will have potentially far-reaching consequences. We want to make clear that this move was driven by our executives in the United States, without the knowledge or involvement of our employees in China who have worked incredibly hard to make Google.cn the success it is today. We are committed to working responsibly to resolve the very difficult issues raised.
    TRUTH: it's the new hate speech.
    In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. - Orwell

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    Google Has Played The China Situation Brilliantly

    http://www.businessinsider.com/henry...+International


    "...Google's decision to make a big public threat now, when it controls 15%-20% of China's search market and is known to most Chinese Internet users, will put far more pressure on the Chinese government to relax its policies than a boycott of the country five years ago would have.

    Google matters in China now. The announcement that Google was threatening to pull out spawned public support for the company in China. It got Secretary of State Hillary Clinton into the act. It forced the Chinese government to respond with a statement. It has grabbed the attention of investors, as well as the hundreds of other companies
    that do business in China and are forced to play by Chinese rules. It will focus more public attention on the reality of China's censorship policies than any boycott ever could have.

    In short, by playing ball with China until it had some real leverage, Google has a much better chance of actually forcing the government to change. ..."

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    When I was reading about the attacks on Google and how the hackers were trying to steal information I thought that maybe it's the Chinese government that did it.

    After going to the link oogaboogie posted, I came across this article.
    http://www.businessinsider.com/did-t...-google-2010-1

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    TRUTH: it's the new hate speech.
    In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. - Orwell

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    The plot thickens:

    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/repor...rticle1434662/

    Google probes possible inside help on China attack


    Google Inc. GOOG-Q is investigating whether one or more employees may have helped facilitate a cyber-attack from China that the U.S search giant said it was a victim of in mid-December, two sources told Reuters on Monday.

    ...

    The sources, who are familiar with the situation, told Reuters that the attack, which targeted people who have access to specific parts of Google networks, may have been facilitated by people working in Google China's office.

    ...

    Security analysts told Reuters the malicious software (malware) used in the Google attack was a modification of a trojan called Hydraq. A trojan is malware that, once inside a computer, allows someone unauthorized access. The sophistication in the attack was in knowing who to attack, not the malware itself, the analysts said.

    Local media, citing unnamed sources, reported that some Google China employees were denied access to internal networks after Jan. 13, while some staff were put on leave and others transferred to different offices in Google's Asia Pacific operations. Google said it would not comment on its business operations.
    TRUTH: it's the new hate speech.
    In a time of universal deceit - telling the truth is a revolutionary act. - Orwell

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