Dodge Viper crashes into stopped traffic

[trev0006]

Dodge Viper crashes into stopped traffic

[BokCh0y]

[inline6turbo]

That's gonna be expensive.

[2M6]

Jeez that's an OLD video. That is the downside of no ABS, it's great on the track (controlling spins) but not so much on the road. I've drug a tire or two on my '97 in the past, scary stuff.



Rob

[black13]

Damn the sun glare is pretty dangerous in that situation.

[strong]

Oh shit son! ABS wouldnt have done a thing. That glare was terrible and it appeared to be a turning lane so maybe he just wasnt familar with the area.

[dj_rice]

Originally posted by strong
Oh shit son! ABS wouldnt have done a thing. That glare was terrible and it appeared to be a turning lane so maybe he just wasnt familar with the area.

Glare+speed+douche driver = lolz

[86max]

Karma for not using his signal lights.

[UndrgroundRider]

Originally posted by 2M6
Jeez that's an OLD video. That is the downside of no ABS, it's great on the track (controlling spins) but not so much on the road. I've drug a tire or two on my '97 in the past, scary stuff.



Rob

ABS isn't great for the track? Says who?

[Revhard]

Ouch. The glare was pretty bad.
Bad day.

[JustinGTP]

Maybe he'll learn to slllloowww down.

[Kloubek]

Originally posted by dj_rice



Glare+speed+douche driver = lolz

This! I'm sure if he wasn't whipping his car around he would not have had an accident. Glare or no glare.

[2M6]

Originally posted by UndrgroundRider


ABS isn't great for the track? Says who?

If you lose control of yout car and start spinning in a non-ABS car you have SOME control of your driection. You can intentionally lock the wheels to keep the car traveling in a single direction.

If you lose control of your car and start spinning in an ABS equipped car you have almost no control of your direction. The tires continue to turn and when the cars direction lines up with the tires rotation the vehicle will attempt to follow the tires for a brief moment and then it will alter the direction.



Rob

[mowglee]

[UndrgroundRider]

Originally posted by 2M6


If you lose control of yout car and start spinning in a non-ABS car you have SOME control of your driection. You can intentionally lock the wheels to keep the car traveling in a single direction.

If you lose control of your car and start spinning in an ABS equipped car you have almost no control of your direction. The tires continue to turn and when the cars direction lines up with the tires rotation the vehicle will attempt to follow the tires for a brief moment and then it will alter the direction.



Rob

Yea, that's why the plan is not to spin (and I also don't agree with you on the point of more control either, but that point is totally moot). Even moderately good 4-channel ABS systems destroy humans in stopping distance. Give me a car with 4-channel ABS on the track, against cars without ABS and I'll show you the winner. Who cares about spinning? If you spin, chances are you've lost the race anyway. This isn't the Fast and the Furious buddy, people don't actually do this on the track.



And on the point of spin control... ABS allows you to break and maintain some degree of steering. That's the whole friggen point, otherwise the technology would be useless. You're saying that 90ish degrees of steering to control a spin is worth less than the ability to lock the tires and slide uncontrollably along the direction you were already travelling? The facepalm was invented for statements like that.

Also, ABS helps you stop a spin faster, which is really the most important part, since it saves lives and allows drivers to scrub off more speed before hitting something. When you lock the tires of a non-ABS vehicle, the rubber that is in direct contact with the pavement gets extremely hot and starts to melt. It forms greasy little balls of molten rubber, which act like ball bearings. That's why stopping distance on asphalt is much longer for non-ABS vehicles, somewhere in the ballpark of 20-30% longer (but this is highly dependant on the skill of the driver in the non-ABS vehicle of course).

In a spin, the same principle applies and ABS lets you decelerate faster (on asphalt) while maintaining steering!

[streetarab]

just because you dont have ABS doesnt mean you have to LOCK UP your wheels, pedal feel kids, pedal feel

[2M6]

My point exactly....you CAN'T lock up the wheels in an ABS-equipped car to choose a single direction during a spin. The ABS forces the tires to keep rotating and will cause the car to alter it's direction whether you want it to or not. Think about it and then feel free to make another post.

I don't understand the F&F remark either, I'm talking about the possibility of saving the vehicle or occupants life once the spin has occured not rejoining the race.

I also never said anything about having to lock the wheels only that it is an option. Of course if the spin is slow in rotation you can choose to modulate the brakes and allow the wheels to rotate in order to communicate steering inputs.




Here is a fact to help support my argument: most purpose-built racecars are NOT equipped with ABS.




Rob

[UndrgroundRider]

Wow. Your post is such I almost don't know where to begin.

Originally posted by 2M6
My point exactly....you CAN'T lock up the wheels in an ABS-equipped car to choose a single direction during a spin.

Huh? Once you are spinning, locking the breaks will not "choose a direction". You are going to spin in the same direction you are already spinning. Even if you don't lock the breaks, you still spin in that same direction. The only thing locking your breaks is going to do is help scrub speed off before you hit something.

But don't take my word for it, there are thousands of clips on youtube to choose from. Here are just a couple:

Originally posted by 2M6
The ABS forces the tires to keep rotating and will cause the car to alter it's direction whether you want it to or not. Think about it and then feel free to make another post.

That's not how ABS works and that's not how a spin works. If ABS could alter the direction of the spin, then it would be a mandated safety feature in every race car. Unfortunately it does not have that power. The race car is going to continue to spin until the force spinning the car is less than the tire's grip. This is a simple matter of physics. ABS will luckily slow the car faster, meaning you can recover from the spin faster. Until your slow the vehicle down, and get enough traction to straighten the car out, you're still going to be spinning, ABS or not.

Originally posted by 2M6
I don't understand the F&F remark either, I'm talking about the possibility of saving the vehicle or occupants life once the spin has occured not rejoining the race.

That's funny. Because saving the driver's life usually means scrubbing off as much speed as possible before hitting the wall, hence the saying, "if you spin, both feet in." When you're spinning at 200KM/h+ (and I have been, on more than one occasion), everything is moving so fast you don't have a moment to look around and figure out what you're going to do... you just react. It's that simple. ABS will scrub more speed, and therefore will reduce the velocity on impact. There is one caveat to ABS in this regard, but I think the technical discussion of that is way over your head. And the benefits far outweigh the detriments, so it's a rather moot point.

Originally posted by 2M6
I also never said anything about having to lock the wheels only that it is an option. Of course if the spin is slow in rotation you can choose to modulate the brakes and allow the wheels to rotate in order to communicate steering inputs.

That option is available to ABS equipped cars as well. Except that brake modulation is not even required to fix a small powerslide in an ABS car, just counter-steer.

Originally posted by 2M6
Here is a fact to help support my argument: most purpose-built racecars are NOT equipped with ABS.

I think this shows just how much you know about racing. ABS was banned from most leagues, along with other driver's aids, because it was taking the skill out of the sport. Before they were banned, ABS, TCS and ESC DOMINATED the racing world. It has nothing to do with it being an inferior technology, which is a post-humorous statement, considering it was really banned for the opposite reason.

Lets also get back to the real point of racing, to WIN. ABS slows the car faster, requires virtually no skill, and maintains steering under heavy breaking. That means drivers can brake later, trailbreak more into the corner and don't have to worry as much about spinning if they carry a little too much speed in. Do I really need to spell out how that translates into faster lap times or can you figure at least that part out for yourself?

[2M6]

Well I hate to get in a drawn out dispute over the internet but I can't believe you still don't understand the physics here. A rotating wheel will alter the direction of a car that is spinning as it approaches the slip angle. This can cause violent changes in direction which (in most cases) is unwanted. The downside of this is hitting the wall at an undesirable angle or reentering the racing surface and causing contact. A locked wheel will not have an effect on the direction of the car once spinning which guarantees the car will continue to travel in one constant direction (contact with other objects and uneven ground will obviously affect this).

My argument pertains to a car in an unrecoverable spin only. I do not insinuate that ABS doesn't shorten stopping distances or help drivers maintain control in panic situations, that is pretty much fact.

There is one caveat to ABS in this regard, but I think the technical discussion of that is way over your head.

Please, enlighten me. Seeing that you can't make the distinction between 'breaks' and 'brakes' I'm looking forward to your scholarly explanation.

[UndrgroundRider]

Originally posted by 2M6
Well I hate to get in a drawn out dispute over the internet but I can't believe you still don't understand the physics here. A rotating wheel will alter the direction of a car that is spinning as it approaches the slip angle. This can cause violent changes in direction which (in most cases) is unwanted. The downside of this is hitting the wall at an undesirable angle or reentering the racing surface and causing contact. A locked wheel will not have an effect on the direction of the car once spinning which guarantees the car will continue to travel in one constant direction (contact with other objects and uneven ground will obviously affect this).

My argument pertains to a car in an unrecoverable spin only. I do not insinuate that ABS doesn't shorten stopping distances or help drivers maintain control in panic situations, that is pretty much fact.

Let me break it down for you.

Even if you were right (which you're not), it's a moot point. The benefits of ABS in a race car, heavily outweigh the one detriment you're claiming exists. Even you can't be so delusional as to argue otherwise.

On the topic of spin control, you have some very strange ideas in your head. Particularly about "violent changes in direction" in ABS equipped vehicles. I want you to find one example of this. Just one. I can save you the trouble though, because it doesn't exist. This is a fictional outcome you've made up. When a car is spinning, it's rotating perpendicular to the rotation of the tires (or close to it). This means the force the tires exert on the car are opposite to the direction of spin, and have very little to do with whether the tires are rotating or not.

When I saw the champ car in your sig I was a little baffled by your comments. It's rare to see veteran drivers have such a fundamental misunderstanding of such basic physics. Then after some searching I realized you aren't a professional driver, you just bought an old car champ car. That explains a lot. You would do well to take some driving lessons and get some seat time under your belt.

Originally posted by 2M6
Please, enlighten me. Seeing that you can't make the distinction between 'breaks' and 'brakes' I'm looking forward to your scholarly explanation.

Anyone worth their salt as a driver knows that when you're in gravel or grass, ABS takes longer to stop. For these types of surfaces you're looking to dig in, which ABS prevents. This is actually the one real detriment to ABS, unlike your crack pot violent change of direction theory.

And yes, I made a spelling mistake. Sue me. Your grammar and spelling aren't perfect either. This is the internet, so get over it.