Business or Engineering...can't decide

[sneek]

Originally posted by tobslau


Sorry to double post, but on average engineers have a higher initial salary.

On what basis would you even say that business students will on average make more money than engineers. Not only have you not specified what field of business, you don't even need to go to school to be a business man. If you work for a large company, you are going to have to learn most of the basic business processes.

And you learn business mentality at school??
This idea is why we have so many people graduating haskayne expecting 6 figure starting salaries.
School does minimal on your performance at work. You learn everything about how to excel in your career in your career. Personality also plays a big part.

Just to add, many of my wealthy family and friends who started their own businesses, began as engineers.

Note: I'm not in eng, I'm actually a B.A. Economics, so I'm not biased towards eng or anything

Edit: Can't spell...sigh

It is sad that I agree with you and I am in Haskayne.
One big thing for business is people skills. A good buddy of mine just graduated a few years ago from Engg, and is happily not using anything from school. He is a very friendly people person and as a result is in a manager role requiring no technical knowledge.

2Valve0: Believe it or not there are a lot of people with Finance degrees from U of C that work as bank tellers...haha it actually scares me.

[davidI]

Originally posted by 2Valve0
^^
Are you saying that a good engineer in their lifetime will make more money than a good businessman? I call on that. Obviously ENG's make more starting salary? Business you work your way up, and fast if you have any common sense and people skills.

Just to add many family members of mine and friends that are engineers continued to be engineers and are very well of but not rich by any means.

I'm not going to try to argue that in a lifetime a business student will make more then an engineering student, its pretty obvious unless you get a tourism or economics degree and don't continue to go to school?

I'm not very biased either I think UofC sucks altogether haha I would rather have went overseas, U.S. or even Toronto but couldn't

Yes, I am saying a good engineer will make more money in their career. The point you're missing is that engineers can be businessmen. Most millionaires I know in Calgary are "businessmen" but their background is engineering.

I have a BComm. The majority of the materials are fluffy common-sense type crap that doesn't make you a "businessman." If an engineer wants to be knowledgeable in business then they should take some economics & finance options and they'll be better off than any B.Comm student when it comes to hard skills.

Looking at the oil company I'm with, the top 3 earners are Engineers.

Unless you want to get into Banking or think you have what it takes to become a CFO somewhere (and you enjoy finance / accounting) or go on to pursue a law degree, I thing B. Eng is the better degree to hold. Especially in Alberta where so much of the economy is driven by resources.

[PepsiCola]

Originally posted by 2Valve0
^^
Are you saying that a good engineer in their lifetime will make more money than a good businessman? I call on that. Obviously ENG's make more starting salary? Business you work your way up, and fast if you have any common sense and people skills.

Just to add many family members of mine and friends that are engineers continued to be engineers and are very well of but not rich by any means.

I'm not going to try to argue that in a lifetime a business student will make more then an engineering student, its pretty obvious unless you get a tourism or economics degree and don't continue to go to school?

I'm not very biased either I think UofC sucks altogether haha I would rather have went overseas, U.S. or even Toronto but couldn't

Was that an attempt to belittle economics or tourism degrees? I really think its this general attitude that gives business students a bad name. I mean, i would not mind at all bragging but if its not backed up give it up... rather than "my dad knows this guy who knows this guy whos a business major whos rich"


This is just one survey I have seen altho, most of the other ones i have seen do seem to be pretty similar.

Best Undergrad College Degrees By Salary 2009
http://www.payscale.com/best-colleges/degrees.asp

Starting Mid-career

Aerospace Engineering $59,600 $109,000

Chemical Engineering $65,700 $107,000

Computer Engineering $61,700 $105,000

Electrical Engineering $60,200 $102,000

Economics $50,200 $101,000

Physics $51,100 $98,800

Mechanical Engineering $58,900 $98,300

Computer Science $56,400 $97,400

Industrial Engineering $57,100 $95,000

Environmental Engineering $53,400 $94,500

Statistics $48,600 $94,500

Biochemistry $41,700 $94,200

Mathematics $47,000 $93,600

Civil Engineering $55,100 $93,000

Construction Management $53,400 $89,600

Finance $48,500 $89,400

Also another neat fact is that most of the S&P top 500 ceos have engineering backgrounds even if their functions are mostly non engineer related. For example the 2008 data gives a ranking as follows:

2008

Field % of CEOs
Engineering 22
Economics 16
Business Administration 13
Accounting 9
Liberal Arts 6
No degree or no data 3

[davidI]

The other thing missing from this thread is discussion about job satisfaction.

When deciding on your degree path, consider what you'd like to be doing rather than just how much you'll be making.

I find the sciences and engineering a lot more interesting than the "admin" work a lot of commerce students end up doing. That said, I love the financial markets and that's where a solid understanding of accounting, finance & economics can come in handy.

[Ebon]

Do what your going to be the most satisfied with. Talking to career counseling might be a good place to start.

Going to UofC is a big regret for me once I saw how shitty the teaching quality was and i'm hopefully transferring out ASAP. If you got the grades, pick path (business/engg/etc) and apply for the best schools you can.

Business: Queen's, Toronto, UWO, McGill. In general, older = better in business cause of the deeper alumni network

Engg: I'm thinking Waterloo and Toronto

[leftwing]

Don't listen to all this crap about who makes more. It is all true in some sort of context.
Yes engineers will generally make more for a starting salary, but that does not mean if you graduate with a business degree you will for sure make less than them, you can get a really good job if you try, with a really good starting salary.

All the talk about salary is relative to a how good you are at your job. Hell i've seen a tv documentary (inside the mcdonals empire) and some mcdonalds managers make over 100,000.

So dont make your job decision based on salary, make it based on what you wanna do, if you do that you will have way better job satisfaction and will most likely make alot of money.

Im in business and i love it. There are soo many different paths you can take and soo many differnt jobs you can have. i have nothing to say about engineering really, except my 2 friends who happen to be in engineering seem to have a lot more school related stress and are always doing homework, they do have lives though.

Do some research about possible jobs you would like to have and find out how they spend their days and what thier job entails, that will give you insight into what you might want to be...


good luck.

[happygirl]

Originally posted by 2Valve0
I have this dumb ass teacher today who droned on for 30 minutes in accounting about fuck all to do with anything(some solar powered houses) when we have a midterm saturday and havn't finished all the material, good teacher right?

I don't know what section you're in, but I imagine the reason the prof was talking about solar houses and the environment was to give us background info on the upcoming guest speakers-- the solar power team.

And becuase the midterm is saturday, she said NEXT class is the review (thursday). also in my lecture, after she finished talking about solar power, she mentioned that 95% of the midterm has already been covered, so the impression I got is that we are ahead of schedule.

[Aleks]

Originally posted by The BMW Guy
So why can't businessmen become engineers exactly?
Can you guys elaborate more on this.

Because to practice as a PEng in Alberta you need your eng degree, you need to write you ethics test and you need to have at least 4 yrs of engineering practice to apply.

Like others have said. Take the Eng degree, after that it's easy to get into business type things. Most managers, Vps and CEO I work with are PEngs.

[2Valve0]

Originally posted by happygirl


I don't know what section you're in, but I imagine the reason the prof was talking about solar houses and the environment was to give us background info on the upcoming guest speakers-- the solar power team.

And becuase the midterm is saturday, she said NEXT class is the review (thursday). also in my lecture, after she finished talking about solar power, she mentioned that 95% of the midterm has already been covered, so the impression I got is that we are ahead of schedule.

Yes, it was about upcoming speakers? But honestly I don't think anyone gave a shit considering there is a midterm and we have not gone over budgeting yet? You probably in my lecture, and I think that the teacher is a dumbass, would rather have the brown dude back.

Another thing nobody mentioned here was the simple fact that alot of students are idiots and don't have any real life experience or experience with real jobs that you can put on your resume, those affect how you are placed after university and what is available to you. If you have apprenticeships or work during summer for certain places, its just as valuable to you as your degree itself. Engineers I believe know this better than anyone else as every single one I know has gotten summer jobs with firms in their field they wish to go into. As for me, almost a year at a job which deals directly with customers, selling and admin tasks etc. which will most likely look good on my resume. I applied last year for 3 or 4 summer apprenticeships with a few places and every single one said "your interview skills are the best I've seen, your grades and work ethic seem great, but you don't have any office experience" and didnt get the job. So I went out and got a years worth now and will probably land me any apprenticeship I want. Wherever you go, whatever you do, you need real life experience or chances are you wont get a job your satisfied with after graduation(unless your family knows people)

[mazdavirgin]

Originally posted by 2Valve0
I applied last year for 3 or 4 summer apprenticeships with a few places and every single one said "your interview skills are the best I've seen, your grades and work ethic seem great, but you don't have any office experience" and didnt get the job. So I went out and got a years worth now and will probably land me any apprenticeship I want. Wherever you go, whatever you do, you need real life experience or chances are you wont get a job your satisfied with after graduation(unless your family knows people)

Sounds like you are putting the horse before the carriage. It's great you want a summer job but a lot of companies will give you a nice BS excuses as to why they didn't hire you... I frankly doubt one years worth of office experience is now going to open all these doors for you.

Anyways firstly in terms of Engineering anyone who tells you it is not a lot of work is pulling your leg. Secondly a lot of people flunk Engineering not because it is hard but more because if you are not interested you will be hard pressed to put in the effort to match most other students. At the end of the day you just have to ride the bell curve.

The Engineering degree will be a lot harder than taking an MBA or a Undergrad degree in Business simply due to fact that you don't get to take fluffy easy courses.

PS: It's worth taking Engineering just so you don't have to spend your days with the uptight folk who go to class in suits/ties.

[dimi]

The first question you should ask yourself is whether you want to go to UofC.

A Bcomm without some sort of designation, certification, or professional accreditation is useless IMO. Its just too general.

As for Engineering students making more than Business students, in general, I agree. An engineering degree is SOOO much harder than a Bcomm though, so the cost benefit is around the same. My 1st year in ENGG was harder than my 3rd year in Business. Seriously.

There are great opportunities for networking in the Business faculty. But there are also the so called "Haskayne douches" wearing suits for no particular reason talking about "Yea I'm thinking about trying out I-banking for a summer job". Keep fucking dreaming

Think it over very well! I was one of those who was pondering about this for days, and then ended up making the wrong decision.

[The BMW Guy]

Yeah I am pretty much stuck in Calgary. Much cheaper to live with my parents with our current financial situation.

[luxor]

Originally posted by The BMW Guy
Yeah I am pretty much stuck in Calgary. Much cheaper to live with my parents with our current financial situation.

Current financial situation?

Not sure what you mean by that, nor am I asking you to reveal. Just keep in mind that the U of C is proposing to introduce "market modifiers" to all professional faculties, this includes Business and Engineering. A student loan is definitely needed when tuition spikes.

If you got a quote for around $5000/year of tuition at the U of C, be prepared to be paying over $7000 in your first year and there-on when these market modifiers come into effect starting Fall 2010. Noting also, bursaries have not yet been adjusted with these market modifiers.

Of course, these market modifiers have not been passed yet, I think the final decision will come in April.

Edit: Almost forgot! Pick Engineering if and only if you are good at Math. If you suck at Math or just mediocre do not pick Engineering, go to business, because Engineering is heavily based on Mathematics. For those who said they didn't study much, those were the guys getting C grades. You are guaranteed to fail Engineering if you don't study much, especially the first and second years.

[Disoblige]

^^ True,

but not just math.. It's also if you're more a conceptual person. When you progress through the years, you'll find the math courses are damn easy compared to others because you actually use a method you did before identically to solve the problem.

With other classes, you'll have to UNDERSTAND stuff well to answer the questions.

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by Aleks


Because to practice as a PEng in Alberta you need your eng degree, you need to write you ethics test and you need to have at least 4 yrs of engineering practice to apply.

Like others have said. Take the Eng degree, after that it's easy to get into business type things. Most managers, Vps and CEO I work with are PEngs.

This is the truth. You can always get your MBA afterward to get some business cred.

[believe]

Originally posted by luxor

Edit: Almost forgot! Pick Engineering if and only if you are good at Math. If you suck at Math or just mediocre do not pick Engineering, go to business, because Engineering is heavily based on Mathematics. For those who said they didn't study much, those were the guys getting C grades. You are guaranteed to fail Engineering if you don't study much, especially the first and second years.

Not necessarily. If there's anything I've learned, its that that engineers are not good at "math." Crunching numbers sure, but from my experience, most people do not deal very well with "heavy" math such as integrals, taylor series expansions, fourier analysis etc, but as you get to the higher level courses, the details of the math don't really matter as much, and really all you need to have is a good grasp on algebra.

but ya, i agree that people who say they didn't have to work hard in engineering are just kidding themselves.

[mazdavirgin]

Originally posted by believe
most people do not deal very well with "heavy" math such as integrals, taylor series expansions, fourier analysis etc, but as you get to the higher level courses, the details of the math don't really matter as much, and really all you need to have is a good grasp on algebra.

I donno man. When I went through EE we had a whole course on Fourier analysis. I mean after taking 6 courses from the faculty of math and another 2-3 engg courses that were mostly math I don't really think you can get away with algebra. Personally I had to take courses on number theory, set theory and proofs :\ That's all heavy math... Not to mention the courses on multivariable calculus and differential equations. After your engineering degree especially in EE you are 1 or two courses shy of being able to have a minor in math...

[Travel_Dude]

Business degrees are very 90's. (I have one)

Engineering all the way.

[Ebon]

If your in Calgary, an Engg (especially, petroleum) + MBA sets you up well. The MBA is essentially only good to network/meet people if you get an undergrad in commerce. Quite literally, a ton of the same courses from the same profs.

Trust me when i say highschool is a pretty shitty indicator of how well your gonna perform in university. Many people find the transition difficult. I can't even count how many students I know that went into sciences (not even engg) with top marks(95-100) in math/physics out of high school and struggled their first year.

[davidI]

Originally posted by Ebon
If your in Calgary, an Engg (especially, petroleum) + MBA sets you up well. The MBA is essentially only good to network/meet people if you get an undergrad in commerce. Quite literally, a ton of the same courses from the same profs.

Trust me when i say highschool is a pretty shitty indicator of how well your gonna perform in university. Many people find the transition difficult. I can't even count how many students I know that went into sciences (not even engg) with top marks(95-100) in math/physics out of high school and struggled their first year.

This. If you rocked High School without studying you'll find the transition tough. I came out of HS with a high 80's average (86 or 89%, can't remember) and pulled a 1.94 GPA my first semester haha. I wasn't used to having to go to class or read books in order to pull solid grades.

Now that I've been out in the work force for 4 years, I regret not paying more attention to the classes I never thought I'd use (Calculus, Stats, Econ etc.) I'm developing those skills now through further studies, but I regret not taking advantage of the instruction back when I had it. Then again, I had a shit load of fun in Uni and in many ways I'm happy I lived it up when I could!