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Thread: Have YOU ever taped a conversation with a cop?

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    Default Have YOU ever taped a conversation with a cop?

    This is cross-posted from another forum I'm on. This was not my post, I'm just cut n pasting it. Very interesting none-the-less:

    You are riding your bike down the freeway... You pop a wheelie, you get it up to 127 mph...flying and having fun.

    You get off the freeway on an exit ramp and come to a stop when a car cuts in front of you and the driver gets out with a drawn pistol and tells you to get off the bike.

    Where's the cops when you need them? You're involved in a bike-jacking in progress! Wait a minute, its was the cops who pulled the gun and started coming at you?

    Well, whatever. You were wrong. Pay the ticket.

    When you get home later, don't even think of posting the helmet cam video on Youtube.

    (you can fast forward to the 3:00 mark)



    Because if you do, you can expect the cops will raid your home executing a search warrant, confiscating computers, the camera, external hard drives and thumb drives.

    Why? Because you violated the cops privacy by taping him. You face up to 16 years in prison if convicted on all charges. Nevermind the fact that Maryland state troopers routinely record traffic stops themselves using dashboard cameras or the fact that in 2000, the state's attorney general's office said "many encounters between uniformed police officers and citizens could hardly be characterized as 'private conversations'..."

    So lemme get this straight. When the cops record a traffic stop, the driver has no expectation of privacy. When a citizen records a traffic stop, he violates the cop's expectation of privacy?

    I wouldn't believe it if I didn't read it.

    Traffic stop video on YouTube sparks debate on police use of Md. wiretap laws

    Traffic stop video on YouTube sparks debate on police use of Md. wiretap laws

    By Annys Shin
    Washington Post Staff Writer
    Wednesday, June 16, 2010

    It started as just another traffic stop.

    In early March, Anthony Graber, a 25-year-old staff sergeant for the Maryland Air National Guard, was humming a tune while riding his two-year-old Honda motorcycle down Interstate 95, not far from his home north of Baltimore. On top of his helmet was a camera he often used to record his journeys. The camera was rolling when an unmarked gray sedan cut him off as he stopped behind several other cars along Exit 80.

    From the driver's side emerged a man in a gray pullover and jeans. The man, who was wielding a gun, repeatedly yelled at Graber, ordering him to get off his bike. Only then did Maryland State Trooper Joseph D. Uhler identify himself as "state police" and holster his weapon. Graber, who'd been observed popping a wheelie while speeding, was cited for doing 80 in a 65 mph zone. Graber accepted his ticket, which he says he deserved.

    A week later, on March 10, Graber posted his video of the encounter on YouTube. What followed wasn't a furor over the police officer's behavior but over Graber's use of a camera to capture the entire episode.

    On April 8, Graber was awakened by six officers raiding his parents' home in Abingdon, Md., where he lived with his wife and two young children. He learned later that prosecutors had obtained a grand jury indictment alleging he had violated state wiretap laws by recording the trooper without his consent.

    The case has ignited a debate over whether police are twisting a decades-old statute intended to protect people from government intrusions of privacy to, instead, keep residents from recording police activity.

    Maryland's wiretap law applies only to audio recordings, so it is just the sound from Graber's video that is at issue legally. Like 11 other states, Maryland requires all parties to consent before a recording might be made if a conversation takes place where there is a "reasonable expectation of privacy." (By contrast, Virginia and the District require one party's consent to a recording.) But is there any expectation of privacy in a police stop? That's where police and civil libertarians differ.

    During a 90-minute search of Graber's parents' home, police confiscated four computers, the camera, external hard drives and thumb drives. The police didn't take Graber to jail that day because he had just had gall bladder surgery.

    A week later, he turned himself in. "I just wanted to do the right thing," he said in an April interview with Miami journalist Carlos Miller, who runs the blog Photography Is Not a Crime.

    It was Graber's first arrest. He spent 26 hours in jail. Graber has since stopped talking publicly about the case on the advice of his attorneys. On June 1, he was arraigned in Harford County Circuit Court in Bel Air. He faces up to 16 years in prison if convicted on all charges.

    The YouTube effect

    Maryland's wiretap law has been around since the 1970s, before the VHS era, let alone the digital revolution, and did not anticipate the advent of video cameras attached to helmets or embedded in cellphones. Nor did the law anticipate YouTube and the ease with which such videos could be disseminated. Until now, its most famous alleged violator was Monica Lewinsky confidante Linda Tripp -- then a Columbia resident -- who taped her phone conversations with the aide about her relationship with President Bill Clinton. (The case was dismissed.)

    But the decades-old wiretap law has suddenly become a fresh battleground for civil libertarians and bloggers who consider Graber's prosecution and a series of similar arrests a case of government overreach.

    The frequency of such arrests has picked up with the spread of portable video cameras and the proliferation of videos showing alleged police misconduct on the Web. Miller has documented eight arrests in the past few years, including one of an Oregon man who was arrested for using his cellphone camera to tape police he says were being rough with a friend and a Chicago artist who taped his arrest for selling $1 artwork. "Most of the people getting arrested are not criminals," Miller said. "It is just really a power trip on the side of police."

    The attention the Graber case is receiving has surprised Harford prosecutor Joseph I. Cassilly, who said his office has prosecuted similar cases before, including one within the past year against the passenger of a car that was stopped during a drug investigation who started taping officers with a cellphone camera. Cassilly said he didn't know the status of the case because the prosecutor handling it has been out sick.

    "The question is: Is a police officer permitted to have a private conversation as part of their duty in responding to calls, or is everything a police officer does subject to being audio recorded?" Cassilly said.

    Cassilly thinks officers should be able to consider their on-duty conversations to be private. Other officers share that view and have issued warnings to documentarians. Another video that surfaced on YouTube shows a Baltimore police officer at the Preakness warning a cameraman who was recording several other officers subduing a woman that such recordings are illegal.

    State police spokesman Greg Shipley said that Uhler acted appropriately and that the officer never pointed his gun at Graber, putting it away as soon as he saw Graber comply with his commands.

    Troopers are told to act as if they are being videorecorded, Shipley said. If they see someone videorecording them, they can ask them to stop but are to take no further action even if the cameraman continues, he said. If they think a private conversation is being illegally recorded, they are to contact the local state's attorney's office and let a prosecutor decide whether a violation occurred.

    David Rocah, an attorney for the American Civil Liberties Union of Maryland who is part of Graber's defense team, said on-duty officers have no expectation of privacy while doing their job in public. If police need to talk to an informant, they can have a private conversation, he said. "But when they are public officials performing their duty for everyone to see and hear, that is not a private conversation," Roach said.

    State supreme courts in Illinois, New Jersey, Pennsylvania and Washington have upheld people's right to record police officers. (Illinois has since made it illegal to record anyone without consent.)

    Dashboard videocams

    Complicating the issue: Maryland state troopers record traffic stops themselves, using dashboard cameras that were installed in all patrol cars as a result of a 2003 settlement with the state ACLU over racial profiling.

    In an August 2000 legal opinion, the state's attorney general wrote that "many encounters between uniformed police officers and citizens could hardly be characterized as 'private conversations' " and that "any driver pulled over by a uniformed officer in a traffic stop is acutely aware that his or her statements are being made to a police officer and, indeed, that they may be repeated as evidence in a courtroom."

    But Cassilly says the use of dash cameras does not negate officers' entitlement to privacy on the job. Police who use dash cameras must alert drivers that they are being taped, he said.

    As Graber's case moves forward, civil libertarians are concerned about its implications in light of what happened to John McKenna, an unarmed University of Maryland student who was beaten in March by three police officers after the school's basketball victory over Duke. Police initially charged McKenna and another student with assaulting mounted police and alleged his injuries were caused by the horses. After a private investigator working for McKenna's attorney uncovered a video of the incident, the charges were dropped. The Prince George's County prosecutor and the FBI have since launched investigations.

    If people who videorecord police are successfully prosecuted, even if they capture misconduct, the evidence they gathered is not admissible in court.

    A judge could still dismiss the case against Graber at a hearing scheduled for October. But Rocah said it might be too late because "the message of intimidation has already been sent."

    Graber told Miller that he is afraid of police now and so nervous driving that he has put his motorcycle up for sale.
    Last edited by C_Dave45; 06-22-2010 at 03:09 PM.

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    Ah! lol...well nevermind then.

    we will now resume our regularly scheduled programming.

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    wow, this is Beyond's realm of epic haha seems like it belongs in our forum.

    im surprised the biker was so calm when he saw buddy hop out with a gun, i would have definitely demanded to see a badge before i did anything. if all you have to do is say "state police" when making demands with a gun in your hand, iv got a few errands to run this evening...

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    ^^ Well, considering we don't HAVE "state" police, I question if your attempt is going to go over very well.

    But the fact is, if someone has a gun, you listen to them... cop or otherwise.

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    Default Re: Have YOU ever taped a conversation with a cop?

    Originally posted by C_Dave45

    So lemme get this straight. When the cops record a traffic stop, the driver has no expectation of privacy. When a citizen records a traffic stop, he violates the cop's expectation of privacy?
    This is the price of freedom.

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    The gun was a bit unecessary... Especially considering you are pulling over a person on a motorcycle (where firearms would be very hard to hide) and you are in an unmarked car not wearing a uniform...

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    That cop was pretty smooth though.

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    Somethings not right about him pointing that shit at someone when hes dressed like that.

    It ACTUALLY looks like a straight up Bike jacking hahahah.

    Even tho hes a cop, its still pretty over the top that he had to point that shit at him. Doesnt he have a badge or something less "Ill kill you" to show them?

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    In Alberta, only 1 party (you) have to know about the recording. I've recorded so many phone convos haha.
    Originally posted by SEANBANERJEE
    I have gone above and beyond what I should rightfully have to do to protect my good name

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    Police officer, no. I don't run into many.

    Rob Anders - of course. I figure its important to have a collection of quotes if anyone ever wants to press criminal charges (or six) after he is out of office.

    I'm considering upgrading to full motion video with the Iphone4, I tried for a short time to use a Dell Axim, but it was a little unwieldy to capture both audio and video.

    If an area specifically states no recording devices (like UofC lecture halls) I will of course adhere to it. Public officials are fair game at all times. Officers deserve privacy for safety reasons.
    Cocoa $12,000 per ton.

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    So how does that work when cops are filmed in public places? There is no expectation of privacy on the side of a highway, street, sidewalk etc... yet many encouters with police are filmed and released to the media.

    I agree, that would scare the crap out of me if someone jumped out of their car with a gun in plain clothes... he needed to identify himself immeadiatley as a police officer. It is a good thing that marked car pulled up behind him as soon as it did-I would not of done anything if it had only been the one plain clothes cop and would be demanding to see a badge before following any orders. For the first 20 seconds that could of been a legitimate bike jacking at gun point.

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    Originally posted by bignerd
    For the first 20 seconds that could of been a legitimate bike jacking at gun point.
    Then the biker will take the Malibu instead.

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    Kinda off topic here but if the biker had tried to drive away after seeing the gun, would the cop be allowed to shoot?

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    Originally posted by heinz256
    Kinda off topic here but if the biker had tried to drive away after seeing the gun, would the cop be allowed to shoot?
    I was thinking the same thing, or what if he up and ran, could the cop pull the trigger?

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    i doubt he would be allowed to shoot. it doesn't seem right that he had a gun pointed at him in the first place

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    So that video would have been fine if there was no audio track then?

    If they have a right to record me, I would hope that it would be the same the other way around.

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    Originally posted by dandia89
    i doubt he would be allowed to shoot. it doesn't seem right that he had a gun pointed at him in the first place

    watch again

    the gun was NEVER pointed at him...i dont agree with the cop but it could have beeen ALOT worse. he needed to definetly state he was a police officer first or even showed his badge for that matter.
    You can technically get a ticket for each window that's illegally tinted. So as above, if you're being an ass to the officer (or if he's just an ass to begin with), he can give you two. (or three tickets if you're dumb enough to tint the windshield of your BMW... but if you own a BMW you can't be stupid right?)
    Originally posted by RoseLover


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    Originally posted by CMW403
    wow, this is Beyond's realm of epic haha seems like it belongs in our forum.

    im surprised the biker was so calm when he saw buddy hop out with a gun, i would have definitely demanded to see a badge before i did anything. if all you have to do is say "state police" when making demands with a gun in your hand, iv got a few errands to run this evening...
    Bullshit. Nobody is stupid enough to start making demands of an obviously irritated person carrying a gun. That's just a good way to end up dead, and anyone that says otherwise is just another wannabe gangsta talking big.

    "We need a vaccination for stupidity, with booster shots against an unwillingness to learn."

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    I didn't see the gun pointed at him either.

    To answer the question: No. If the cop shot him, there would be shit to pay. You simply cannot fire on an unarmed person.

    He pulled the gun as a deterrant for any bullshit that might ensue. Plus he was plainclothes so he wanted to make a quick impact. I think he did.

    Pulling the gun did, however, seem excessive.

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