There won't be a penalty. I guarantee Ferrari has spent the last two and a half hours getting their stories straight and the investigation will end with insufficient evidence to lay down punishment. The FIA is just doing this so they can say "Look, we investigated, we do care" and keep their noses clean.
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I should have put 50 bucks on that, but I couldn't believe they'd get penalized, either:Originally posted by Mibz
There won't be a penalty. I guarantee Ferrari has spent the last two and a half hours getting their stories straight and the investigation will end with insufficient evidence to lay down punishment. The FIA is just doing this so they can say "Look, we investigated, we do care" and keep their noses clean.
Ferrari penalty
Another joke performance by Ferrari - we just gave Massa info, not team orders. At least they haven't completely escaped, bur fining Ferrari $100,000, so what?
Last edited by Chris Elyea; 07-25-2010 at 10:37 AM.
Banned
funny. why even have this rule in then.
joke.
though many time this happen since the bad schumacher one years ago. mclaren do with heiki and lewis too. and many others.
Banned
is first post on each page of thread scerwwed up for you too?
I eagerly await the WMSC's decision along with the FIA's decision regarding FI. They could be excluded from the next race because of their tire fuck-up. I would -love- to see FI punished more harshly than Ferrari.
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First lap collisions, both cars in at the same time for unplanned stops - you can understand how FI got confused. They were all set to put a new front wing on a car that didn't need one! But they immediately pitted both to fix their mistake, instead of trying to pretend nothing happened. Made a bad race worse and they finished 16 and 17. So no advantage gained, if they get a slap on the wrist, that's fine with me (no pun intended).
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Wow...Eddie Jordan was FUMING after that race. But I do agree with him on everything he said. Alonso makes me mad, whines soo much.
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Originally posted by Chris Elyea
First lap collisions, both cars in at the same time for unplanned stops - you can understand how FI got confused. They were all set to put a new front wing on a car that didn't need one! But they immediately pitted both to fix their mistake, instead of trying to pretend nothing happened. Made a bad race worse and they finished 16 and 17. So no advantage gained, if they get a slap on the wrist, that's fine with me (no pun intended).
Not much of an excuse for such a big f-up, but I doubt if they will get a penalty since they didn't gain anything.
I'm still laughing about the "penalty" against Ferrari, why even bother.
After a day of talking about this, I can't figure out what I want to happen, or what I think would be considered justice.
- Alonso was the only one who immediately benefited from the rule being broken, but he didn't break any rules himself as long as he was not aware of the team orders. Just like Singapore 2008, there's no way to prove he was aware so he will not be punished.
- Nobody here can know the exact reason Ferrari made the call. The team broke the rules, that much is obvious, and the team should be punished, but how? At the end of the day they did not lose or gain any points as a team from the manipulated result. Sure, down the line, if Alonso wins the WDC I'm sure they'll make some extra money, but you can't claim it as a gain yet, so technically they're not any further ahead.
Would it be just to take away points when the un-manipulated result would have been the same for them? I don't think so.
Would it be just to take away money? For what? Publicity? Sponsorship that hasn't happened yet?
How do you punish based on speculation?
- Massa and his engineer... Well shit. They fucked up big. I was cheering for them when it happened but thinking about it now, they're the two biggest clowns in this circus.
Massa's career is ruined and he's got nothing to show for it. If he had disregarded the team orders and won the race then he could have talked to the team afterward, or if he wanted to be a snitch, gone public and let everybody know of his strong moral fiber and desire to not break the rules. Plus he'd have the race win.
Or he could have carried out the team orders the same way everybody else does, in a fashion that we can't see. Don't lift/triple shift on a straight, take a bad line on a couple corners in a row. Make it look like you made a mistake and then talk about it with the team afterward. If it's in his contract to be #2 then he's got nothing to complain about and he should've carried out the team orders without being a vagina. If there's nothing in his contract then he talks about it and gets shit sorted. If they say "We did it because Alonso has more points" then suck it up and win more. Or take Alonso out next race, just try to hide the fact that it's purposeful.
What Massa and Smedley did was stupid because they're the only ones who actually broke the rules, and they made sure everybody knew it. They got the attention of the powers that will punish them for breaking the rules and the attention of teams that will never work with them because of their drama.
Seems to be that the people who fucked up have already been punished.
Now how do the fans get compensation for,
A) the blatant manipulation,
B) the boring race,
C) watching it all in standard definition?
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Yep, if anybody's going to punish Massa and Smedley, it should be Ferrari, for making no attempt at subtlety! When the Ferraris used to miraculously switch positions at tire stops, nobody could prove the fix was in, but they can't credibly deny it this time.
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Wow.. that's pretty harsh. Don't you realize that Massa is the one who loses out the most? And what choice did he have really? You don't go defy your team when your paycheque is coming from Ferrari. And his teammate is a total dick that has no respect for anyone but himself.Originally posted by Mibz
- Massa and his engineer... Well shit. They fucked up big. I
they're the two biggest clowns in this circus.
Massa's career is ruined and he's got nothing to show for it.
What Massa and Smedley did was stupid because they're the only ones who actually broke the rules,
They put Massa in a no-win scenario. He obeys and he gets the flak from the media and FIA. He ignores and Alonso probably passes him anyway, and then he's in shit with his team.
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Harsh but true. If they had intended to stand on principle, either one would have ignored the team order, and suffered Ferrari's wrath. Since they decided to go along, they could have made an attempt to disguise it to protect the team, who would have backed them against the FIA. But by complying yet making it obvious, they do look like clowns, because now both Ferrari and the FIA have reason to punish them. And not very many others will feel any respect for disloyal cheaters.Originally posted by Inzane
Wow.. that's pretty harsh.
Originally posted by Inzane
Wow.. that's pretty harsh. Don't you realize that Massa is the one who loses out the most? And what choice did he have really? You don't go defy your team when your paycheque is coming from Ferrari. And his teammate is a total dick that has no respect for anyone but himself.
They put Massa in a no-win scenario. He obeys and he gets the flak from the media and FIA. He ignores and Alonso probably passes him anyway, and then he's in shit with his team.Exactly. Massa and Smedley picked the worst of three options. Inzane, you're ignoring the fact that he could have obeyed without making it obvious and then brought it up later. If we didn't have all the evidence we did, it would be suspicious at best and he would have an entire team of professional liars backing him up to make sure it stayed that way. He might also have a contract renewal when the time came. Instead he was a drama queen and now he's going to reap what he sowed. He chose to take a half-step towards nobility, and that's just not good enough.Originally posted by Chris Elyea
Harsh but true. If they had intended to stand on principle, either one would have ignored the team order, and suffered Ferrari's wrath. Since they decided to go along, they could have made an attempt to disguise it to protect the team, who would have backed them against the FIA. But by complying yet making it obvious, they do look like clowns, because now both Ferrari and the FIA have reason to punish them. And not very many others will feel any respect for disloyal cheaters.
I do agree that he was the only one who actually lost anything from his decision, and he's already been punished.
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To be quite honest, the whole situation was handled poorly by Ferarri. Plus Alonso would have passed Massa easily a few laps earlier when they were lapping the backmarkers if he didn't drive like a douche. This whole situation would have been totally avoided if he stayed cool & done his job. At that point he was the faster car.Originally posted by Mibz
Exactly. Massa and Smedley picked the worst of three options. Inzane, you're ignoring the fact that he could have obeyed without making it obvious and then brought it up later. If we didn't have all the evidence we did, it would be suspicious at best and he would have an entire team of professional liars backing him up to make sure it stayed that way. He might also have a contract renewal when the time came. Instead he was a drama queen and now he's going to reap what he sowed. He chose to take a half-step towards nobility, and that's just not good enough.
I do agree that he was the only one who actually lost anything from his decision, and he's already been punished.
Smedley was put in a very bad position. When the team orders were finally delivered, Alonso had fallen back & was marginally faster than Massa. I can see why he would be reluctant to deliver the team orders.
In the end Stefano Domenicali should have been the one to deliver the message to Massa. He is the team principle and ultimately in charge. If the team really wanted Massa to let Alonso by, he should be the one giving the instructions. How is Massa suppose to trust his race engineer if he is telling him to let the other car by when they are relatively performing at the same pace?
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