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    Smile Alberta Public Car Insurance Petition

    Hey guys, I'm thinking of running a petition to institute public automobile insurance in alberta.... I'm sure most of you are aware that british columbia and saskatchewan both have public insurance and pay less then half what we are currently paying.

    I'll attach my MLA's response to my concerns as well as some other facts about public insurance.. please post comments and maybe look up some bad points to public insurance.

    How many will support me in this?

    here is the letter..

    Thank you for your recent e-mail regarding car insurance.

    Internal figures from the Insurance Bureau of Canada, an industry lobby group, indicate that accident claims increased by only 2.8% in 2002. This contradicts the IBC’s assertion that rising payouts to accident victims have increased premiums, which have risen a whopping 57% according to data from Statistics Canada. The government’s plan to cap awards will therefore not substantially reduce premiums for most drivers. Instead it will widen the benefit gap between Alberta and other western provinces. In addition, the freeze comes too late for drivers who have already seen their premiums skyrocket.

    As you may be aware, the Consumers’ Association of Canada has recently come out with a study that shows that public insurance is the most affordable option for Alberta. The CAC study indicates that Alberta auto insurance rates are almost double what they are in provinces with public insurance. Increases have been much lower in provinces with public insurance plans. Since New Democrat governments in BC, Saskatchewan, and Manitoba introduced public insurance, consumers in those provinces have been getting a better deal.

    As you may know, I recently outlined the New Democrat Opposition’s position on car insurance. I called for the adoption of a public insurance plan to reduce premiums, make rates fair and improve safety. For further information, please visit here.

    At this time, the ND Opposition does not have a petition. However, I would be happy to present one to the Legislature on your behalf. For information on how to correctly format a petition, visit here

    Thanks again for writing. Please keep in touch.

    Sincerely,

    Brian Mason, MLA
    Edmonton Highlands



    Again, here is some other interesting facts..

    Last year alone, auto insurance rates in Alberta increased by 57%.

    But accident claims only increased 3%.

    Young drivers and seniors pay more, even if they have a clean driving record.

    Edmonton drivers pay more than Calgarians.

    The Tories responded by locking in the highest rates in Western Canada.

    The Conservative government has a plan they say will reduce rates. But by their own numbers, if everything goes exactly as planned, rates will only be reduced by 8%, after a 57% increase last year.

    That’s not good enough.

    According to the Consumers’ Association of Canada, Alberta insurance rates are 40% higher than in BC, 51% higher than in Saskatchewan, and 57% higher than in Manitoba.

    The other western provinces have public auto insurance. They are the only places in Canada where rates have not increased beyond inflation.

    Public insurance systems don't discriminate based on age or marital status.

    Public insurance systems invest 30 times more on road safety than private systems.

    Public insurance systems are far more effective at keeping uninsured drivers off the road.

    Alberta needs a better deal on auto insurance.

    Alberta needs public auto insurance.

    A better deal for drivers:
    The ND Plan for public auto insurance

    1. A 35% reduction in rates
    Public insurance is non-profit. Where private insurance companies have to produce profits for shareholders, our plan would pool profits back into the company in the form of lower premiums.

    A public system reduces the costs of having multiple head offices (most of which are in other provinces), adjusters, estimators, and other staff. Public plans have proven able at bringing down costs through the establishment of province wide rates for body shops and other auto repair facilities.

    2. A fair system of setting rates
    A number of common factors affect what drivers pay for their insurance coverage. These factors include the driving record, claims history, the make, year and model of the vehicle, and purpose for which the vehicle is used.

    Private insurers use a number of other factors not used in the public auto provinces to determine rates. These include the age, gender and marital status of the driver.

    Our public insurance plan would end such discrimination. Rates would be based upon the driver's driving record, period. Under the ND public auto plan, good drivers would not cross-subsidize bad drivers.

    3. Real regulation of rates
    It may come as a surprise to many Albertans, but auto insurance rates are regulated. The Alberta Automobile Insurance Board (AIB) reports to the Minister of Finance. The AIB keeps a very low public profile. Applications to increase insurance rates are dealt with behind closed doors, and almost all of them are approved unchanged. The AIB acts as a rubber stamp for the insurance industry.

    The New Democrat plan would transform the Automobile Insurance Board from an industry lapdog to a consumer watchdog. Rate increases would be dealt with through an open, public process where consumers would have standing and be heard.

    4. Fairness for accident victims – Their day in court guaranteed
    The Conservative government recently suggested limiting pain and suffering awards to accident victims as a way to reduce insurance premiums.

    While there can be no doubt that this ‘no-fault’ system reduces costs, and therefore premiums, we believe that limiting the rights of victims is too high a price to pay. Accident victims should have the right to take their case to a judge if they feel their insurer, public or private, is being unfair.

    Furthermore, the Tory plan was tried in New Brunswick and has failed. Insurance companies in that province happily accepted caps on pain and suffering awards, and kept the same high insurance premiums.

    New Democrats would not take away the legal rights of accident victims or limiting their accident benefits as is being proposed by the Tory government’s industry-biased review committee.

    5. Tackle uninsured drivers seriously
    Uninsured drivers are a by-product of high insurance premiums. As premiums go up, the incentive to drive without insurance increases. These drivers (often drivers most likely to get into accidents) raise rates because those who obey the law end up covering the costs of those who drive uninsured.

    Most jurisdictions have at least 5% of drivers operating without insurance. Over 5,000 drivers were charged in Alberta last year for not having valid insurance, and this is likely to be only the tip of the iceberg. The $2,500 fine is often still cheaper than paying for insurance, especially if a driver has had at-fault accidents. Even the insurance industry is asking for better integration between registration and insurance.

    In BC, virtually no cars are on the road without insurance. This is because in that province, buying insurance and receiving a license plate are essentially the same thing. That’s because the public auto insurer also provides vehicle registrations.

    While in Alberta you can’t register a vehicle that is uninsured, monitoring whether people fail to renew their insurance once a vehicle is registered is difficult.

    New Democrats would integrate vehicle registration with the issuance of insurance policies to reduce numbers of uninsured drivers.

    6. Invest in safety and accident prevention
    In addition to government initiatives to improve traffic safety, public insurance plans invest directly in traffic and road safety programs to decrease accidents, fatalities and claims. ICBC in British Columbia is investing $40 million annually in road safety initiatives.

    Under the ND plan, the public insurer would make substantial investments in traffic and road safety and capture the savings in the form of safer roads by reducing claims in high accident areas.

    Private insurance companies have no similar incentive to invest in traffic safety. Because private insurers compete for the lowest risk drivers, investment in this area simply increases their costs relative to that of the competitors. Private insurers often just lobby for government spending in traffic safety.

    7. Self-financed through driver premiums
    The ND public auto insurance plan would is self-financed and involves no taxpayer subsidies. By the same token, it is also important that profits not be diverted out of the public insurance pool to support other government programs. Any dividends paid would by law have to be to policyholders, not taxpayers.

    The Alberta Liberal plan for auto insurance would use the Stability Fund as a reserve if necessary. We reject this approach because it would mix tax dollars with premium funds.

    Cost: $50 million paid back in one year, with interest
    The costs of setting up a driver-owned auto insurance plan are modest. Our plan would use the existing insurance broker network to sell policies and handle claims, thereby keeping upfront costs low.

    The Insurance Corporation of British Columbia (ICBC) delivers insurance through 900 private insurance brokers throughout the province (Source: ICBC 2002 Annual Report). Annual operating costs to administer the Autoplan are kept to a minimum.

    In Manitoba and British Columbia, the government loaned the money needed for start-up costs. The loan in Manitoba was $320,000 in 1971, and the B.C. loan was $14 million in 1974. Both of these loans were repaid with interest within a year because premium revenue was sufficient to pay claims, overhead and start-up costs.
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    Based on the experience of other provinces, the New Democrat Opposition is confident that a driver-owned plan could be financed with a start-up government loan of $50 million or less, to be repaid within the first year with interest.

    1.Tell us your story.
    Have your insurance premiums increased? Having trouble dealing with private insurance? Email Us and tell us your story. Read other people's stories.

    2. Download our plan.
    "A better deal for drivers" outlines our detailed plan for cheaper, better, public auto insurance. Download it now to email to friends or to print and distribute.

    3. Stay informed


    Auto Insurance News Releases
    Doom 3 - www.doomcast.com
    Alberta Integras - www.abtegs.com

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    I'll definitely support this.

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    Only one side of the story has been told here unfortunately - and remember Mr. Mason needs your vote to get re-elected - so take that for what its worth.

    I've seen both systems, and have even worked for a P&C Insurer (deals with car insurance) at one point. I do agree that the rates have really skyrocketed lately, but a lot of that has to do with the fact that most P&C insurers re-insure risks through "wholesale" insurers. Ever since Sept 11th, most of those re-insurers have been trying to finance their losses through increased premiums, which means they charge higher premiums to your P&C Insurer which in turn means your rates go up. If a P&C company was really agressive, it could tie up its investments in it's own bookof business, and undercut everyone else in the industry, but that won't happen since ROI's for insurance are typically 5% whereas if they keep their money elsewhere in real estate or equities they can usually make 10%.

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    i say we just kill anyone associated with insurance companies and cause it to go public by default

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    Sorry but a new driver (be it a 16 year old, or a 30 year old immigrant) are a higher risk than experienced drivers. They need to pay more. But at the same time there has to be reasonable access to insurance instead of gouging...

    Khyron
    That's not sweat. It's your fat, crying.


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    Originally posted by Khyron
    Sorry but a new driver (be it a 16 year old, or a 30 year old immigrant) are a higher risk than experienced drivers. They need to pay more. But at the same time there has to be reasonable access to insurance instead of gouging...

    Khyron

    Those people may be higher risk, but don't you think that they should be given the benefit of the doubt? You shouldn't have to pay those ridiculous premiums just because you are a 16 year old male! if you are a 16 year old male that has already gotten into an accident, then the premiums should cost more. Remember that saying 'innocent until proven guilty'? That should apply in regards to insurance as well. Kids take drivers training to learn how to drive.. if you ask me, that's probably the best a person will ever drive in their life. Everything is fresh in a person's mind. I can tell you right now that I'm not as half a good driver as I was when I first got my license. I'm pretty sure that if I took a drivers test right now I'd fail.

    Just an fyi, I'm a 24 y/o chick, not a 16y/o male who thinks insurance is unfair. Not unfair for me, but for those people who pay more in insurance in a year, than what their car is even worth.

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    Originally posted by I_miss_my_MX3



    Those people may be higher risk, but don't you think that they should be given the benefit of the doubt? You shouldn't have to pay those ridiculous premiums just because you are a 16 year old male! if you are a 16 year old male that has already gotten into an accident, then the premiums should cost more.
    The problem with this is the fact that once a 16 y/o male gets into an accident, the probability is extremely high that he:
    1) is dead
    2) killed all or some of the occupants in the victim's car
    3) won't buy insurance after the accident cuz he can't afford it.

    What it means is, you have a horrible tragedy that the insurance company has to pay for, and the money for that comes from everyone else who has a policy with that insurance company - in essence you have a whole bunch of people who weren't involved in the accident, PAYING for the accident, then complaining that their rates have gone up. No one gets the benefit of the doubt with insurance - you prove your insurability. Its not a courtroom - you are indeed considered guilty until you can prove otherwise.
    Last edited by 1badPT; 01-02-2004 at 04:52 PM.

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    Originally posted by 1badPT



    What it means is, you have a horrible tragedy that the insurance company has to pay for, and the money for that comes from everyone else who has a policy with that insurance company - in essence you have a whole bunch of people who weren't involved in the accident, PAYING for the accident, then complaining that their rates have gone up.
    Ahh.. no.. the reason rates go up isn't because of accidents.. it's because what the insurance companies do with your money is invest it.. And because the markets have been doing horrible, they have lost a s***load of $$.. They are using consumers to make the $$ back.

    I haven't heard lately of a single 16y/o male getting into an accident and killing anyone or themselves.. If you ask me, it's mostly people in their 20's or old farts that are the problems.

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    When I lived in Ontario, I was a RIBO licensed P&C broker, so I know a little about this stuff

    Every time the insurance company writes a cheque to pay a claim, it comes out of the company's reserve which is funded by nothing other than premiums. Premiums are collected from all policyholders whether they are good or bad risks so you can easily argue that any increase is because of a shortfall of premium dollars vs claims. Insurance companies may try to offset increases in premiums by investing part of the premiums in investments, but they are regulated to only invest in low risk investments, and a certain percentage must always be in reserve to pay claims.

    In general young men are clearly higher risks than young women, and under the current set up they pay more. The new legislation which eliminates premium calculations with age simply means that low risk drivers are going to be paying higher premiums to cover for the higher risk drivers, who will very shortly be paying lower premiums.
    Last edited by 1badPT; 01-02-2004 at 05:05 PM.

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    Originally posted by 1badPT

    In general young men are clearly higher risks than young women, and under the current set up they pay more. The new legislation which eliminates premium calculations with age simply means that low risk drivers are going to be paying higher premiums to cover for the higher risk drivers, who will very shortly be paying lower premiums.
    Yup, that means my insurance will go up.. Yay, I'm excited...

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    So you think that people living beside the mississippi river should pay the same rates as people in vegas for flood insurance? It's the same thing - statistics dictate that living by a river means you are more likely to flood than in a desert. Same with young drivers.

    And let's take your brilliant idea a step further - let's pretend everyone pays 1 dollar a month UNTIL they get an accident. Then they get shoved up the wazoo. Now someone paralyses a pedestrian and loses a million dollars in compensation. Where does that million dollars come from - the guy who was in the accident? No - insurance means you pay up front for the risk - the more risk you are, the more you pay. The only problem with Alberta is the rates are now becoming unreachable which is equally bad (because people will drive uninsured). But making everyone even unless they have an accident is kinda like fixing the wagon wheel after it's fallen off.

    BTW - Unless you have alzheimers you better not be driving worse than you did at 16.

    Khyron
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    Originally posted by Khyron
    So you think that people living beside the mississippi river should pay the same rates as people in vegas for flood insurance? It's the same thing - statistics dictate that living by a river means you are more likely to flood than in a desert. Same with young drivers.

    And let's take your brilliant idea a step further - let's pretend everyone pays 1 dollar a month UNTIL they get an accident. Then they get shoved up the wazoo. Now someone paralyses a pedestrian and loses a million dollars in compensation. Where does that million dollars come from - the guy who was in the accident? No - insurance means you pay up front for the risk - the more risk you are, the more you pay. The only problem with Alberta is the rates are now becoming unreachable which is equally bad (because people will drive uninsured). But making everyone even unless they have an accident is kinda like fixing the wagon wheel after it's fallen off.

    BTW - Unless you have alzheimers you better not be driving worse than you did at 16.

    Khyron
    Easy man! I'm just trying to give people the benefit of the doubt. And everyone is entitled to their opinion, so don't be so ticked that everyone doesn't see it your way. It's called free speech, so don't be so mean!

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    Originally posted by Khyron
    So you think that people living beside the mississippi river should pay the same rates as people in vegas for flood insurance? It's the same thing - statistics dictate that living by a river means you are more likely to flood than in a desert. Same with young drivers.

    And let's take your brilliant idea a step further - let's pretend everyone pays 1 dollar a month UNTIL they get an accident. Then they get shoved up the wazoo. Now someone paralyses a pedestrian and loses a million dollars in compensation. Where does that million dollars come from - the guy who was in the accident? No - insurance means you pay up front for the risk - the more risk you are, the more you pay. The only problem with Alberta is the rates are now becoming unreachable which is equally bad (because people will drive uninsured). But making everyone even unless they have an accident is kinda like fixing the wagon wheel after it's fallen off.

    BTW - Unless you have alzheimers you better not be driving worse than you did at 16.

    Khyron

    Your right in the fact that higher risk people should pay more than lower risk people but the real problem right now is that insurance rates are going through the roof for people who haven't done anything and paying $2,400 a year for my 1998 4 door sunfire with no accidents or tickets seems a little outragouse. (The car is probably only worth $7,000). Yea, I'm 19 and a male so that is taken into account but what we need to know is what these statistics are, like are insurance companies really being driven into the groun with record profits every new year ??? Come on it has to be reasonable though I do agree it should be statistic based, statistics can be bent and warped the same as anything else. We just need a fair third party to determine what is really true and what kinda profit those insurance companies are going to make. In a perfect world a public system would just pay for itself with no mass profits but with the goverments waste it might not even be ass effiecient as a private system. I don't know the answere but our elected officials need to do some in-depth research, present US with the results and take it from there. More info is needed, and FAST !!!

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    Originally posted by I_miss_my_MX3


    Easy man! I'm just trying to give people the benefit of the doubt. And everyone is entitled to their opinion, so don't be so ticked that everyone doesn't see it your way. It's called free speech, so don't be so mean!
    Pointing out flawed reasoning and logic is not mean - it's how you debate and convince others. I used to be knee-jerk anti-SUV until I read enough posts pointing out the flaws in my thinking, which in the end changed my mind. I am perfectly willing to agree with you providing it makes sense. How fast does a bullet shot in the air hit the ground when it comes down? (Don't answer).

    Originally posted by Weasel
    insurance rates are going through the roof for people who haven't done anything and paying $2,400 a year for my 1998 4 door sunfire with no accidents or tickets seems a little outragouse. (The car is probably only worth $7,000).


    The cost of the car isn't the issue. Even with just PLPD (no theft, collision, etc) your rates would be huge.

    People should be able to afford basic PLPD (means if you crash it and it's your fault, you're screwed). I am totally willing to pay a bit more to bring their rates down. However, if a 16 year old is driving around in a brand new car, he or his parents can afford the insurance - otherwise, get a cheaper car.

    I've only run down 2 pedestrians (technically not my fault but it's still bad news), and been in 2 minor crashes. All before I turned 19.

    Khyron
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    The point is people in Sask, BC, and Man pay less than Albertans. And as an Albertan I would like to pay less as well. If that means government owned and operated insurance, so be it. Saves me money. And what's there to complain about when it means you save money?

    (Just my humble opinion)

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    The difference in rates between the provinces has more to do with the fact that there are fewer accidents in other provinces - whether thats because they maintain the roads better, or have drunk drivers off the road, lower speed limits or a combination, the other provinces have lower risk which means lower premiums. It would be similar prices if it were a private company managing the risk.

    If you want lower rates you have to be ready to give up some of the freedoms we have here in Alberta, ie lower speed limits, more stricter transportation laws, tougher control on alchohol and so on. In Alberta you're free to be doing what you want. But that freedom certainly isn't free.

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    I totally support this for sure....they shuld really lower the insurance rates for good drivers..
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    ok guys, I've put up a site..

    Alberta Public Auto Insurance Petition
    Doom 3 - www.doomcast.com
    Alberta Integras - www.abtegs.com

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    How do you sign the petition?

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