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Thread: Tuner shop wrecks a Ford GT, says owner is responsible...

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    Default Tuner shop wrecks a Ford GT, says owner is responsible...



    via Autoblog:
    Anyone who's ever been hesitant to hand over their keys to another driver, or conversely to get behind the wheel of someone else's car – exotic or otherwise – will want to take note of the following story currently being played out on the internet's extensive web of car enthusiast forums.

    The story revolves around a Ford GT – one of the finest exotics ever produced by an American automaker – its customization, and its unfortunate demise. The car – in classic Gulf baby blue and orange heritage livery and outfitted with twin turbochargers – belongs to one Ray Hofman, who wanted to have some modifications carried out to make it more drivable in advance of a Ford GT rally event. Having struck out with other tuners, Ray turned to Bill Knobloch of Discovery Automotive, better known to forum members as Shadowman. Bill agreed to carry out the tuning Ray was looking for, handed over the keys, and from there things went downhill in more ways than one. Follow the jump to read on.

    [Sources: Bimmerboost, Ford GT Forum]


    The driver's account of the situation unfolds on Ford GT Forum as follows: After examining the car in his garage and asking for (and receiving) Ray's insurance and registration papers, Bill (a.k.a. Shadowman) says he took the GT out onto the open road to examine the behavior of the turbo boost. He claims he was driving slowly along the highway when he inexplicably lost control of the car, spun off the road, and the next thing he knew, he was climbing out of a ravine, the car laying damaged below. Bill was briefly hospitalized, but released within hours, after which he contacted Ray (the owner) to let him know that he'd been in an accident. He said he couldn't get close enough to the car after the crash to determine the extent of the damage, but that he assessed that more damage would likely be caused by the tow truck extracting the car from the ravine than had been incurred in the crash itself. He couldn't explain how the car spun out of control, but he apparently noted that this sort of outcome was precisely why he had made sure to arrange the insurance papers ahead of time.

    The car owner paints quite a different picture on Bimmerboost's forums. According to Ray, he received an email from Bill informing him that he was taking the car out on the road, but didn't hear back from him until the next day when he was informed of the supposedly "minor" crash. With little information to go by, Ray flew out to Los Angeles where Bill's garage is located and where the crash occurred. Arriving at the tow company, Ray immediately saw that his car suffered significantly more damage than he expected. Proceeding out to the scene of the crash with the tow truck driver (who allegedly described that stretch of highway as the local drag strip and the apparent driver as a "pilot"), Ray could see skid marks on the road (contrary to Bill's account) and the broken trees as high as 30 feet in the air. He and the tow truck driver surmised that Bill must have hit a tree on the side of the road, spun around 180 degrees, flown off the highway backwards, and struck another tree, which shattered the transaxle and pushed the engine through the bulkhead.

    Both driver and owner – as well as the highway patrolman on the scene – agreed that it was a miracle that Bill walked away essentially unscathed from the crash. Unfortunately that's where their thoughts splits. Bill claims that the liability for the damage to the car is entirely the responsibility of the car's owner, and that as a small business, he doesn't carry a policy for such cases. Ray says he gave Bill ample opportunity to make it right, but that Bill deflected any responsibility for having totaled his exotic while adding a personal injury claim onto the Ray's insurance. One way or another, it's quite the mess. For our part we're just glad we're not the ones who have to sort it out.

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    that hurts just to look at. what a beautiful car....

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    i thought this was the one in Calgary when i first saw the picture, theres one running around here with the Gulf paint scheme too

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    Wow, Shadowman did that? He's a well known name in the M5 community.
    -James
    Current beast: E550 Coupe (M278)
    Previous beasts: AM Vantage, E90 335i (modded + JB4 Map2), E39 M5

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    i think it should totally fall on that shadowman guy to repair or replace the car

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    Holy shit! Bill needs to die a very painful and slow death. One can only hope that his business goes bankrupt from lack of customers after this. How can he not have an insurance policy to cover his business. I am sure the owner can just sue him for everything.

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    Im not sure how this would hold up in a claims court. Those Insurance documents are kind of key..

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    Man, such a nice car too

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    He claims he was driving slowly along the highway when he inexplicably lost control of the car, spun off the road
    LOL that is the biggest load of BS I've ever heard.

    Clearly, he was testing out the turbos on this "local dragstrip" as the tow truck driver put it. You don't just inexplicably lose control of a car and plummet into a ravine.

    The shop/driver should be fully responsible, IMO.

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    What an idiot driver. and to add insult to injury the driver puts his hospital bills on the owners insurance. what a scum bag

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    Originally posted by TorqueDog
    Wow, Shadowman did that? He's a well known name in the M5 community.
    He's now well known in more communities than that. What an asshole. The owner should get the blackbox data out of there and take him to court.

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    Obviously that Bill guy was driving the shit out of a customer's car...so he's a dumbass. Apart from that I'd say that since the car was insured, the owner of the car should just be glad that nobody got injured or killed by this stupid Bill and move on with life. That's what insurance is for. I would ask Bill to pay my deductible and somehow try to sue him to recuperate some of my losses (if that's even possible). I would also try to get the police to lay some reckless driving charges on him if at all possible.
    “I don’t understand bus lanes. Why do poor people have to get to places quicker than I do?” -Jeremy Clarkson

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    yet one more reason to ALWAYS take the owner with you

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    Poor GT

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    Yup, owner is responsible....

    Part of modding cars for power, and tuning them for RACING is dyno testing, tuning, test drives etc. And shit DOES go wrong. Ever see a slick blow on a dyno at 160mph? Let me tell ya, not much left of the rear of the car in some cases.

    If you wanna play, you gotta pay.

    Ford GT's are famous for the front lower control arms breaking as well.

    He may have been going "too" fast.... who knows. That's upto the cops to lay charges if that is how they feel.

    Anyway, that's what the owners insurance is for.

    I dunno why the owner is being such a cry baby.

    Mod it yourself, or leave it as Ford designed.

    What's next... you gonna build a motor, throw it on the dyno for a tune, it blows up, you gonna sue the dyno guy?? Fuck right off.
    Last edited by Toma; 10-20-2010 at 05:53 PM.

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    Originally posted by Toma
    Yup, owner is responsible....

    Part of modding cars for power, and tuning them for RACING is dyno testing, tuning, test drives etc. And shit DOES go wrong. Ever see a slick blow on a dyno at 160mph? Let me tell ya, not much left of the rear of the car in some cases.

    If you wanna play, you gotta pay.

    Ford GT's are famous for the front lower control arms breaking as well.

    He may have been going "too" fast.... who knows. That's upto the cops to lay charges if that is how they feel.

    Anyway, that's what the owners insurance is for.

    I dunno why the owner is being such a cry baby.

    Mod it yourself, or leave it as Ford designed.

    What's next... you gonna build a motor, throw it on the dyno for a tune, it blows up, you gonna sue the dyno guy?? Fuck right off.

    Just because you are give permission to work on someones car does not mean you have permission to drive the piss out of it on public roadways, possibly causing harm to other drivers. Unless he had permission to road tune the car.

    The Shop owner drove the car to the local "drag strip"... do you think he was going for a nice leisurely Sunday drive?? HELL NO!! Just because you own a shop does not absolve you from all responsibility you have to your customer that you will be taking care of his car. The Shop owner should be completely liable for all damages.

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    Originally posted by vengie



    Just because you are give permission to work on someones car does not mean you have permission to drive the piss out of it on public roadways, possibly causing harm to other drivers. Unless he had permission to road tune the car.

    The Shop owner drove the car to the local "drag strip"... do you think he was going for a nice leisurely Sunday drive?? HELL NO!! Just because you own a shop does not absolve you from all responsibility you have to your customer that you will be taking care of his car. The Shop owner should be completely liable for all damages.
    According to the tuner, he did have permission.... and I believe that, since that is the most common understanding when someone drops off a 'problem' car as described by both parties.

    Most OBD2 cars, you pretty well have to road test after the tune, or before the tune to assess the problems and issues.

    It's part of the job, its implied, it's understood, and its usually agreed upon. It is in fact on my waivers as well, as it is most tuner shops.

    And unless he had the equivalent of the dealer plate, and swapped it out for the customers palte, most "shop" insurance compnies that would not cover a road test.

    We always use the customers plate when it is available as the deductable is 1/5th (here anyway).

    As for the drag racing etc.... pure speculation. By its very nature,a road good for racing is probably ideal for a road test as it would be long, flat, not much traffic etc.

    And sure, you have a responsibility to do your best to take care of the customers car... but accidents DO and WILL happen.

    The guy complained of transitins changes into boost etc during racing conditions... what, you think you are gonna be able to do that driving 50k.h?

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    You know this seems to happen all the time, you would think people just wouldn't take the risk, if I was a mechanic I'd never do this because I'd be way to worried I'd wreck someone's car and I'd probably get the owner to show me the problem personally on a test drive.
    Last edited by derpderp; 10-20-2010 at 06:54 PM.

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    total bs from shadowman...
    Originally posted by beyond_ban
    Yo Kanye, ima let you finish, but 50 Cent had the best concert cancellation of all time.

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    LOL owner being a cry baby? Toma is really seeing things from his side of the pond.

    Not sure how this will unfold, I feel terrible for the owner of the GT.

    I would hope he is not trying to completely absolve himself from liability.
    Originally posted by know1edge
    Trollception. MGCM used CapnCrunch's troll and inverted that troll attempt into another troll attempt getting ya'll to believe that he's serious... However, maybe ya'll are trollceptioning me into believing that you believe him. What you don't know is that I was trollceptioning ya'll into believing that I believed you believed the OP that believed CapnCrunch.

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