The Gun Thread

[killramos]

Originally posted by littledan
Hey all,

Few questions. I just picked up a Tula '50 SKS laminate. I want to buy some surplus ammo from canadaammo.com.

They have LCW non-corrosive steel cased lead core bullets in either FMJ or hollow point. Does anyone know if you can shoot these rounds at any AB ranges? I know you can't shoot steel core bullets but for these it should only be the cases that are steel. They have 1000 rds for 299 FMJ and 349 HP.

Also, anyone wanting a cheap norinco AR, canadaammo has their dominion arms AR15's 14.5" on sale with a quad forend for $599!

You can shoot those anywhere you want.

The distinction comes with STEEL CORE ammunition and the shooting edge doesn't let you use it. CSC lets you shoot anything but birdshot I think.

Obviously in crown or sibbald range anything goes as long as it's NR.

[n1zm0]

On a related note, anyone have extensive use with the 7.62x39mm ammo? I mean enough to make a proper comparison?

I found Chinese and CZ made seem to have better accuracy than the Russian type, maybe it's just me idk.

[Tomaz]

Originally posted by n1zm0
On a related note, anyone have extensive use with the 7.62x39mm ammo? I mean enough to make a proper comparison?

I found Chinese and CZ made seem to have better accuracy than the Russian type, maybe it's just me idk.

I find that all of it is garbage. And by that I mean it is super dirty, corrosive, inaccurate, or all of the above.

Hornady makes the "Zombie Max" rounds which I find the best. It's bloody expensive in comparison to the mil-surp or reload crap, but I was sick of stripping my gun every 200 rounds. Plus, then you can hunt with it.

slam-fire sucks. lol

[n1zm0]

Originally posted by Tomaz
I find that all of it is garbage. And by that I mean it is super dirty, corrosive, inaccurate, or all of the above.

Well that's why we buy 7.62 East Bloc stuff right? It's cheap to shoot and own, anyways I was just wondering with all the turds available, which one is the most polished lol

[Anomaly]

I Don't think there's a general consensus on what the best surplus 7.62x39 is... it varies so much. Although, I always hear people recommend the Czech 7.62

I'm the same as Tomaz, It gets annoying having to immediately clean after shooting...My used Mini 30 came with Winchester 7.62x39 and a box of Hornady Zombie Max. Accuracy isn't worlds better than surplus (It's a Mini 30 ) but it's nice that I can leave the gun a day or 2 without cleaning it

[euro_racer]

Sad sad news. Hope none of you guys have the CZ858. As of today it is now classified as a prohibited firearm. The RCMP also banned the Swiss arms firearms yesterday too...

It's all over CGN, just giving some of you guys a heads up in case you are not on there.

It is suspected there are up to 20 other firearms that are targeted next. Mostly semi-autos.

[Kloubek]

Heard about the Swiss Arms product - didn't realize about the CZ.

That's just retarded. How on earth can they deem a legally purchased weapon prohibited without at least compensating the owner for it? Pure bs. If I purchased one of these, I'd take my chances getting in trouble for keeping it, thank you very much.

Oh, hey - guess what everyone? Cars are now illegal. We don't really care if you just bought one for 100g or are making payments for another 4 years. Too bad.

[D'z Nutz]

Sounds like it's just models made in 2007 and later.

"CZ858 TACTICAL-2 P" is marked on the left side of the receiver/frame.
- "P" denotes a factory installed composition wood buttstock.
- "CZ858 Tactical-2 P" with a proof date of 2005 or 2006 is a semi-automatic version of the "VZ58".
- "CZ858 Tactical-2 P" semi-automatic version has the following characteristics:
1) a narrow, machined window on the left side of the sight block with a modern CZ proof mark and a proof date of 2005 or 2006 (see image # 3), OR
2) original CZ factory marks ("she") on the left side of the sight block along with a modern CZ proof mark and a proof date of 2005 or 2006 (see image # 7).
- NOTE: Any "CZ858 Tactical-2 P" firearm with a large machined window on the left side of the sight block and a proof date of 2007 or later is derived from the full automatic CZ VZ58 firearm which has been altered to discharge one projectile with one pressure of the trigger. The original markings have been altered or obliterated and the firearm has been remarked.
- "CZ858 Tactical-2" family of firearms externally resemble the Kalashnikov model AK47 assault rifle; however, these firearms are not a member of the Kalashnikov family of firearms nor a Kalashnikov variant.
- "VZ58" or "Puska VZ 58" (Rifle Model 1958) was developed in Czechoslovakia for use by the Czech army.
- features include: hooded front sight and tangent rear sight; round, rifled barrel; short stroke gas piston is mounted above the barrel; flat sided machine steel receiver/frame with a sheet metal dust cover; tilting block locking system; striker fired; cocking handle is mounted on the right side of the breech block; detachable box magazine release lever is mounted behind the magazine well; safety/selector lever is mounted on the right side of the receiver/frame; composition wood or synthetic forearm, hand guard, pistol grip, and fixed buttstock; blued metal finish.
- "CZ858 Tactical-2 P" has a barrel length of 483mm, and a fixed buttstock.

[euro_racer]

2007 and later... Which is all but some 500 of them. There are around 9000 firearms affected by this.

Looks like the AR family of rifles are next in line as well as variants (rifles that look like the AR... Ruger sr22, remington .22 semi auto etc)

[D'z Nutz]

Originally posted by euro_racer
2007 and later... Which is all but some 500 of them. There are around 9000 firearms affected by this.

Looks like the AR family of rifles are next in line as well as variants (rifles that look like the AR... Ruger sr22, remington .22 semi auto etc)

Oops, yeah I meant later.

I'm just reading up on this now and it sounds like all this was started because JR of TSE was trying to be a dick and get CSC in trouble (as usual).

http://www.theshootingcentre.com/sans-overview

[Cos]

.

[D'z Nutz]

You gotta surrender it and there's no compensation. Although at least one firearms dealer on CGN has offered to hold onto the rifles until this gets sorted out. They're still holding on that the decision may be reversed, but I wouldn't count on it.

[GQBalla]

You have to surrender the cz858? I thought with prohibited you can get a prohibited license ?

[euro_racer]

Surrender without compensation only. Essentially extorting thousands of legal owners out of millions of dollars worth of their legally purchased property. Businesses are being hurt also as a lot of them carry these firearms and accessories for them exclusively, some will have to shut down (Thanks Canada!). And from and I heard they won't be crushing them but the firearm will be redistributed to "authorized personel", the Swiss Arms at least.

With the Conservative party dropping in popularity as of late one would think that this move was made by the RCMP to hit the strongest supporters the Conservatives have, gun owners. And unfortunately it seems to be working as people are furious that this happened under the Conservative watch.

What the RCMP (Queen's Cowboys) and Liberals are essentially after is to follow suit of what Australia did with their weapons ban... Ironically that didn't work out all that well with lowering gun crime because surprisingly criminals do not follow laws... Who knew?

[Gman.45]

You only get a "prohibited" license if you own a class of firearms that gets a grandfather status. For example, because I owned an AK and a short barrel handgun prior to the law changing, I get both 12-5 and 12-6 on my license card, allowing me to keep them, and trade/buy/sell within the finite supply of these types within the country. If I ever get rid of that class, I lose it forever, and can't get it back.

I find it very unlikely that they will create a class for the Swiss Arms rifles, or the CZ's. BTW, it isn't ALL of the CZ rifles being prohibited, it is specific to just a few models in the line up, albeit the majority of those sold, and just the ones that were built on converted auto receivers, something the importer in this country is 100% responsible for doing, and thereby screwed over the people who purchased them, as eventually the RCMP would check them out, and find that they in fact were NOT newly constructed semi auto only firearms.

You have to understand, that the RCMP do NOT have to actually examine a firearm in order to issue an FRT number and add it to their database. In fact, they often don't, or can't, due to a lot of different reasons. They have been taking some of the applicants for these rifles, specifically the Swiss Arms line and certain CZ/VZ models, at their word, and going from engineering specs and documents.

If you go to the Calgary Shooting Center site, you can read all about how JR Cox initially told the RCMP about how the rifles we have in Canada now were in fact "different" and "based on another model".

http://www.theshootingcentre.com/sans-overview

They are in fact PE90/Sig 550 with semi auto parts. They are identical. I've seen them right beside each other, one of mine, and an actual 550 from the Swiss rifle club in Canada (they are allowed to have Swiss issued rifles and ammo for their Army while living here in Canada due to a treaty between both countries). Trust me, they are identical. The Swiss Arms rifles in Canada will accept the full auto parts of the Sig550 and go full auto as well. This by definition makes them not only a converted auto, but also not a "different rifle" made from "another model" as initially was told to RCMP forensics by JR Cox from TSE.

So, while a lot of people or vilifying the RCMP, they were essentially only a part of this current problem, and not the worst offender really. I'm not saying they aren't anti gun, I know they are, I have family instructing at Depot, and 3 family members that are currently serving with the RCMP - I know as well as anyone how they are taught to think about firearms from the top down. But in this situation, people seeking to make huge profits from importing previously impossible to own and very high end types of rifles deceived the RCMP forensics and firearms unit intentionally, and now the chickens have come home to roost.

Had JR not been in a catfight with his former partner over at CSC, and poked the bear with a stick by sending in a Swiss Arms rifle CSC had imported without going through JR and TSE, trying to somehow get them in trouble, none of this would have happened. The truly insane part is JR KNEW that at any point if the RCMP truly dug into the Swiss Arms rifles, they would find out what he did back in 2001 or so to get them into the country, yet he still tried to go after the CSC despite knowing this. Insane.

[DEATH2000]

Originally posted by GQBalla
You have to surrender the cz858? I thought with prohibited you can get a prohibited license ?

Even if they deem a firearm prohibited now, the time for Grandfathering anything is over. They wont ever be issuing any Prohibited licenses again. At this point if the decision stands it will be a forced confiscation without compensation.

Originally posted by Gman.45
They are in fact PE90/Sig 550 with semi auto parts. They are identical. I've seen them right beside each other, one of mine, and an actual 550 from the Swiss rifle club in Canada (they are allowed to have Swiss issued rifles and ammo for their Army while living here in Canada due to a treaty between both countries). Trust me, they are identical. The Swiss Arms rifles in Canada will accept the full auto parts of the Sig550 and go full auto as well. This by definition makes them not only a converted auto, but also not a "different rifle" made from "another model" as initially was told to RCMP forensics by JR Cox from TSE.

Had JR not been in a catfight with his former partner over at CSC, and poked the bear with a stick by sending in a Swiss Arms rifle CSC had imported without going through JR and TSE, trying to somehow get them in trouble, none of this would have happened. The truly insane part is JR KNEW that at any point if the RCMP truly dug into the Swiss Arms rifles, they would find out what he did back in 2001 or so to get them into the country, yet he still tried to go after the CSC despite knowing this. Insane.

I have honestly never met JR or the guy from CSC (Matthew?), so what I have heard is not direct from either of them, and I have zero affiliation with either of them. However I have been informed that CSC went to Swiss Arms and had them modify full-auto variants into semi auto to be imported into Canada. JR was the original distributer of these in 2001. Apparently a customer that had purchased one of the Classic Greens from CSC brought it into TSE to try to sell it. Upon examination the staff found it was a converted full auto variant, which based on the way it was converted could have been returned back to full auto. The ones imported originally had been modified in a way so that it could not be altered for full auto (or so I am told).

As far as I know JR had no choice but to legally report this or his business licence would have been at risk. Anyone knowingly allowing a potentially fully automatic firearm to remain on the street is liable for a whole host of issues. From what I have read the RCMP made the decision to reclassify the Classic Green rifles to Prohibited becuase of this one firearm originally from CSC. The serial number is available online. Apparently this one firearm brought the entire lineage of the Classic Green rifle into disrupte.

From what I have heard as well, the RCMP made this re-classification on their own, without the consulting of Parliment. The RCMP on their own do not (or are not supposed to) have the power to re-classify any firearm without approval. As far as I know Minister Steven Blaney is the only one who can approve a re-classification and he has stated that he did not approve this, and was actually never made aware that this was taking place. I honestly hope he rectifies this situation in a positive manner for gun owners and all Canadians.

[GQBalla]

Good thing I sold my cz858. Yes I actually did but I bought it after the LGR. Was supposedly demolished.

[EscapeSam]

I own a glock lol, bought it off a friend, keep it unloaded and buried. Wonder what would happen if they cops found it.

[Cos]

.

[Go4Long]

And that assumes that it was a legally owned glock in the first place...if not, it would be significantly worse.

personally I would delete your post and hope it hasn't already been read by law enforcement...asking that question on a public forum is an incredibly bad idea.