Legality of removing bumper rebar

[FraserB]

Just wondering if I would be in the clear if I removed the rear bumper rebar but replaced it with a length of 4x2 steel that tied in at the original rebar mounting points. The current rebar is not strong enough to support parts that need to be installed in the rear. The bumper cover would be re-installed so nothing would be protruding or visible. Mainly concerned if I get rear ended and they poke around.

[VetteRacin]

id imagine illegal unless your replacing it with something better and stronger but i cant say that for sure

[maxtrbo93]

The law that this would fall under would be the same as doing a front end conversion on a car (like I have) and removing the bumper rebar.

I was rolling around in my car with no bumper cover and no bumper (rebar) in the front after the Kouki conversion. I then got a ticket for $121 dollers with the description "Passenger vehicle with no bumper"... I looked up the law, and nowhere did it say that the "bumper" (rebar) installed on the vehicle had to meet any OEM specifications at all.

It sounds like you've got a green light, but as with all things to do with car-modifying......do so at your own risk

[gretz]

Go for it... if you are only making it stronger, there won't be an issue.

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by maxtrbo93
I looked up the law, and nowhere did it say that the "bumper" (rebar) installed on the vehicle had to meet any OEM specifications at all.

Didn't try very hard did you?

Bumpers
62(1) A passenger car shall be equipped with a front and rear bumper.
(2) No person shall install or alter a bumper on a passenger car unless the design of the bumper is equivalent to, and the bumper is mounted in substantially the same manner as, the bumper installed by the manufacturer of the passenger car.

Originally posted by gretz
Go for it... if you are only making it stronger, there won't be an issue.

Stronger isn't more legal because the bumper safety tests are conducted for how a low speed impact will affect pedestrians when struck, not the car. So stronger = more dangerous to a pedestrian.

OP, it's pretty much just like modifying anything. It's your choice, but it's also your liability.

[maxtrbo93]

Originally posted by Tik-Tok


Didn't try very hard did you?

Bumpers
62(1) A passenger car shall be equipped with a front and rear bumper.
(2) No person shall install or alter a bumper on a passenger car unless the design of the bumper is equivalent to, and the bumper is mounted in substantially the same manner as, the bumper installed by the manufacturer of the passenger car.

I noted that in my research, but none of those terms state anything specific about weight, material, size... all it says is "equivalent" ... so realistically you could have a rebar of the same size... but totally different material and core and such.

and "is mounted in substantially the same manner"... aka..put 2 bolts in wherever u mount it with the same strength as the stock ones or better and your golden.

[gretz]

Originally posted by Tik-Tok



Stronger isn't more legal because the bumper safety tests are conducted for how a low speed impact will affect pedestrians when struck, not the car. So stronger = more dangerous to a pedestrian.

OP, it's pretty much just like modifying anything. It's your choice, but it's also your liability.

I didn't say stronger is more legal... If he made a paper mache bumper mounted 2 feet higher than stock that resembled a member of KISS, I can understand he might get hassled even though it is more safe for pedestrians than rebar... But an OEM mounted location, under the bumper cover, stronger for his safety - You won't get hassled...

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by maxtrbo93

all it says is "equivalent" ... so realistically you could have a rebar of the same size... but totally different material and core and such.

"Equivalent" means size AND material, otherwise it would say "equivalent size"

[maxtrbo93]

Originally posted by Tik-Tok


"Equivalent" means size AND material, otherwise it would say "equivalent size"

beyond.ca c*nt hair splitters.

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by maxtrbo93


beyond.ca c*nt hair splitters.

Not understanding the laws.

Basically you're interpretation is that you could use wet cardboard, so long as it's the same size.

[maxtrbo93]

Originally posted by Tik-Tok


Not understanding the laws.

Basically you're interpretation is that you could use wet cardboard, so long as it's the same size.

went to court and won my case, i must be an idiot.

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by maxtrbo93


went to court and won my case, i must be an idiot.

Originally posted by maxtrbo93


I was rolling around in my car with no bumper cover and no bumper (rebar) in the front

You were driving with NO bumper whatsoever, and you PERSONALLY argued in court that the law doesn't say the same material has to be used, and you won your "no bumper ticket" on that basis... ok, sure thing.

[maxtrbo93]

I won my ticket based on the fact that the officer gave my buddy the same ticket when he actually HAD the rebar on his Soarer, just no "bumper cover". The officer assumed the bumper cover was the "bumper"... thus I proved he gave us the tickets on false grounds.

thanks for comin out bud.

[M.alex]

Does it really matter if its legal or illegal? You can't see it on the car so how's the cop going to know if you even have one in the first place.

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by maxtrbo93
I won my ticket based on the fact that the officer gave my buddy the same ticket when he actually HAD the rebar on his Soarer, just no "bumper cover". The officer assumed the bumper cover was the "bumper"... thus I proved he gave us the tickets on false grounds.

thanks for comin out bud.

Yeap, that totally proves that you can legally install a non-OEM equivalent bumper rebar. Totally.

[bjstare]

Originally posted by maxtrbo93


beyond.ca c*nt hair splitters.

His initial statement wasn't splitting hairs at all. The material an object is made of is just as significant (or more) in the design process as size of a particular object is.

Somehow this statement evolved into a discussion about how you won your case... which had nothing to do with what material the bumper/rebar was constructed with. How the hell does that happen? Oh yeah... its Beyond.

[sexualbanana]

Originally posted by maxtrbo93
I won my ticket based on the fact that the officer gave my buddy the same ticket when he actually HAD the rebar on his Soarer, just no "bumper cover". The officer assumed the bumper cover was the "bumper"... thus I proved he gave us the tickets on false grounds.

thanks for comin out bud.

So you proved that "no bumper" does not equal "no bumper cover". Still does not prove that a modified bumper is an illegal bumper, with "bumper" being defined as the rebar.

I'm not the first to say it in this thread, but like all things in modifying cars, do it at your own risk. Remember that if you do get into any kind of collision that you could be up shit creek if anyone notices that your rebar is modified in any way.

[bignerd]

As per pp, I was going to say if you were in an accident, I would think your insurance company could deny part of your repairs if they saw you modified your bumper. Although you say it would be stronger, it may crush, bend or distribute energy differently in an impact and thus cause more damage. Or your welds could fail etc...

[hampstor]

Originally posted by bignerd
As per pp, I was going to say if you were in an accident, I would think your insurance company could deny part of your repairs if they saw you modified your bumper. Although you say it would be stronger, it may crush, bend or distribute energy differently in an impact and thus cause more damage. Or your welds could fail etc...

IMO this is the biggest risk. A ticket is the last thing i'd worry about. I'd be most worried about the insurance company using this as a reason to deny repairs/coverage in the event of collision.

[92s13SR20]

another dallas owen thread...
he still doesn't have a proper rebar for the car....its a mangled one off an r32 gts-t....
Bumper rebar is required by law! It makes rocks harder to do more damage(Dallas Owen DK specialty).
Your ticket got tossed out because the judicial system is lazy....lets see you get in an accident and see what your insurance does when they find out you had no rebar.

OP...i can't see there being too much of an issue...people put huge steel front bumpers on their 3/4 and 1 ton trucks...how is this any different?