Here comes the Rhetoric: Time to Strike Iran

[broken_legs]

Time for War. Iran recently announced that it converted 15% of its currency holdings into gold bullion. They also sell their oil in Euros. (Thats what Saddam did before Desert Storm V2.0)

Now that the republicans are back, maybe we'll see some action.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/1..._n_779997.html

HALIFAX, Nova Scotia -- A leading U.S. senator on defense issues says any military strike on Iran to stop its nuclear program must also strive to take out Iran's military capability.

Sen. Lindsey Graham, a South Carolina Republican who sits on the Armed Services Committee and the Homeland Security Committee, said Saturday the U.S. should consider sinking the Iranian navy, destroying its air force and delivering a decisive blow to the Revolutionary Guard.

He says they should neuter the regime, destroy its ability to fight back and hope Iranians will take a chance to take back their government.

His remarks stunned many in the audience at the Halifax International Security forum.

Graham told the audience that newly elected conservatives would back "bold" action against Iran, reports Agence France Presse:

If President Barack Obama "decides to be tough with Iran beyond sanctions, I think he is going to feel a lot of Republican support for the idea that we cannot let Iran develop a nuclear weapon," he told the Halifax International Security Forum.

"The last thing America wants is another military conflict, but the last thing the world needs is a nuclear-armed Iran... Containment is off the table."

The Obama administration, through top military officials, has made it clear that all options are on the table.

[FraserB]

Wonderful, time for WW3.

a) Yes Iran does have nuke power, however all the spent fuel is going back to Russia

b) The US is currently spread across two fronts with dwindling support for war

c) The US really does not have the right to dictate another nations foreign policy or their R&D, plain and simple

d) If they attacked Iran, there is a good chance the US would get hammered

[broken_legs]

Originally posted by FraserB


d) If they attacked Iran, there is a good chance the US would get hammered

Can you expand on D?

[ChappedLips]

If military action were to occur, the US should just sink the Iranian navy like the article states and bomb the country from afar. Don't send any troops in, just disable all nuclear and military facilities. Well maybe take a couple oil fields to recover some of the money wasted.

[broken_legs]

Originally posted by ChappedLips
If military action were to occur, the US should just sink the Iranian navy like the article states and bomb the country from afar. Don't send any troops in, just disable all nuclear and military facilities. Well maybe take a couple oil fields to recover some of the money wasted.

The US doesnt 'waste' money.

They print all the money they need out of thin air. There is no cost of war (unless you count dead people, but why be a negative nancy???)

[ZenOps]

The day that Canada prints up $600 Billion Canadian dollars to buy a fleet of F-35 fighter jets (As opposed to F-22's) and a few aircraft carriers to actually make them useful:

Is the the day that Canada pulls the trigger in doubt and throws sanity right out the window.

If we devalue our currency just to gain a military - it will probably make an enemy of the US more than Iran.

Just like the US closing its borders, the US printing up $600 Billion US greatly hurts all trading partners with the US - Including Canada.

Don't think for a second we are somehow in the same boat as the US. The US under Bush was and is two hairs away from militarizing the Canadian border worse than the Berlin Wall. They nearly did it when we dared to suggest decriminalizing marijuana.

For each $600 or $700 Billion US bailout, I'd move another 5% into gold (precious metals) if you are a realist, common metals or an idealist rare earth metals (at a national level) for any nation trading with the US just as a natural reaction to a devalued currency. Its not like the US is giving the rest of the world much chance.

I say we militarize our borders to protect ourselves from those now decriminalized nearly legalized Californians - They are going to raid our country for loaves of soft Alberta wheat bread when they get the munchies!

[broken_legs]

Originally posted by ZenOps
The day that Canada prints up $600 Billion Canadian dollars to buy a fleet of F-35 fighter jets (As opposed to F-22's) and a few aircraft carriers to actually make them useful:

]

No opportunity for export currently exists because the export sale of the F-22 is barred by American federal law.[30] Most current customers for U.S. fighters are either acquiring earlier designs like the F-15, F-16, and F/A-18E/F Super Hornet, or else are waiting to acquire the F-35 Lightning II (Joint Strike Fighter), which contains technology from the F-22 but is designed to be cheaper, more flexible, and available for export from the start.

[ZenOps]

Yup, once again... The US is keeping the best strawberries for themselves and selling us the for export only mass produced stuff. They get to keep bicycles, we get to buy tricycles.

I can imagine the US used to say the same thing about Canada, we kept all the best Marc Emery Marijuana for ourselves and exported all the low grade pot.

"How can we get Canada to think that marijuana is evil, I know, lets threaten to close the border and throw Hollywood propoganda at them!"

Rob Anders!

[CUG]

Originally posted by broken_legs
]

It's funny how you're cleaning up in this thread hahah

Hey, it's like that 4chan post: The US has wasted their time at the top. If they want to be as significant as the British and Roman Empires, they'll have to conquer like those empires. Fair is fair right?

[Guillermo]

Originally posted by CUG
It's funny how you're cleaning up in this thread hahah

Hey, it's like that 4chan post: The US has wasted their time at the top. If they want to be as significant as the British and Roman Empires, they'll have to conquer like those empires. Fair is fair right?

» Click image for larger version

[broken_legs]

Originally posted by CUG
It's funny how you're cleaning up in this thread hahah

Hey, it's like that 4chan post: The US has wasted their time at the top. If they want to be as significant as the British and Roman Empires, they'll have to conquer like those empires. Fair is fair right?

^^^ ZenOps doesn't count

I think the biggest thing is that the US IS an empire. Just now that most of the world has a TV set and a computer they can't hide all of the empire building stuff they do anymore or pass it of as "Spreading Democracy"

[CUG]

Lack of thinking benefits the liberal movements even more than the right wing movements. I find a lot of liberals to be completely off their rockers, see: Affirmative Action.

[97'Scort]

Going after Iran for developing a nuclear weapon is, in my mind, stupid. They can make all the warheads in the world but they lack any delivery methods. They're also not stupid: they know that any aggressive nuclear strike against a western nation or Israel would result in the same coming back their way. They just want the deterrant.

Also, striking the Iranian military is more than likely going to solidify the power base for the current regime rather than undermine it. The notion that removing the military would give the population the opportunity to revolt just shows that the good senator clearly doesn't understand how things work.

[ZenOps]

You would figure the US would just give up by now.

Their invasion and war winning average is pathetic. Now the British Empire - theres an empire that really did some bloody carving out of nations, 50 at a time (and still holds them today)

If you look at history, the French have had more victories than the US in raw numbers and raw square footage =P

Its like that other poster mentioned, can you really call the US an empire? I don't think the US won enough wars to be called a sucessful empire. On the scale of empires, its a pretty sad one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6L8b1zPE0-Y

[Feruk]

Originally posted by 97'Scort
Going after Iran for developing a nuclear weapon is, in my mind, stupid. They can make all the warheads in the world but they lack any delivery methods. They're also not stupid: they know that any aggressive nuclear strike against a western nation or Israel would result in the same coming back their way. They just want the deterrant.

Also, striking the Iranian military is more than likely going to solidify the power base for the current regime rather than undermine it. The notion that removing the military would give the population the opportunity to revolt just shows that the good senator clearly doesn't understand how things work.

Absolutely right on both parts.

[broken_legs]

Originally posted by ZenOps
You would figure the US would just give up by now.

Their invasion and war winning average is pathetic. Now the British Empire - theres an empire that really did some bloody carving out of nations, 50 at a time (and still holds them today)

If you look at history, the French have had more victories than the US in raw numbers and raw square footage =P

Its like that other poster mentioned, can you really call the US an empire? I don't think the US won enough wars to be called a sucessful empire. On the scale of empires, its a pretty sad one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6L8b1zPE0-Y

ZenOps,

Pretend for a moment that the US is not actually interested in 'winning' any wars, but actually only in gaining strategic access and influence to oil supplies.

Seems they are doing a magnificent job if you look at things through that lens.

Cheers,

B

[NuclearPizzaMan]

Let Israel deal with Iran.


What do you suppose will happen when Israel decides diplomacy will never work and Iran is close to a bomb?


It will be exciting, but I want no part of it.

[Scuderia]

Originally posted by ZenOps
You would figure the US would just give up by now.

Their invasion and war winning average is pathetic. Now the British Empire - theres an empire that really did some bloody carving out of nations, 50 at a time (and still holds them today)

If you look at history, the French have had more victories than the US in raw numbers and raw square footage =P

Its like that other poster mentioned, can you really call the US an empire? I don't think the US won enough wars to be called a sucessful empire. On the scale of empires, its a pretty sad one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6L8b1zPE0-Y

The perspective you see it from isn't the same as the one they see it from. All the British empire shit is in the past, where invading a different country was like having a flavour of the week. Obviously the US knows their limits, and if they can't totally destroy and conquer countries without the world intervening, why not do the next best thing: Arm and protect an ally with identical motives in one of your region of interests (Israel), control VALUABLE strategic military ground and bases in the heartland of arguably your only real enemies (middle east), take vast amounts of oil to fund your conquests and aid your failing economy, all the while convincing your dumbass taxpayers and citizens that you're the hero of the world, you're fighting the honourable fight against the terrorists, and all of this is to justify living in the greatest and most democratic country in the world... even though the unemployment rate, murder rate, value of your dollar, obesity, quality of life, and gang/cartel influence on home soil is sky rocketing or plummeting respectively. They sure seem like a modern day empire to me

[ZenOps]

Originally posted by broken_legs


ZenOps,

Pretend for a moment that the US is not actually interested in 'winning' any wars, but actually only in gaining strategic access and influence to oil supplies.

Seems they are doing a magnificent job if you look at things through that lens.

Cheers,

B

Ok, well then their subjugation of oil bearing states has not helped them get out of crushing debt.

If the war for oil, was to get cheaper oil, which was ultimately to bring the nation back into a position where it can afford to pay the interest (not even start paying back the prinicipal) it owes

Then that ultimately has failed as well.

Its sort of like, if you believe man has landed on the moon or not 40 years ago... It can only make dissolving Nasa in 2010 look really really bad.

I give the US a D on military empire and a C- on economic empire.

[broken_legs]

Originally posted by ZenOps


Ok, well then their subjugation of oil bearing states has not helped them get out of crushing debt.

But thats the point my friend. They have a war machine for 2 reasons:

1.) Ensure access to oil
2.) Ensure the reserve status of the USD stays in tact


As long as countries need to hold USD to purchase oil, other comodities, pay back debt to the IMF etc... There will always be demand to hold USD. Even if it worthless.

The US wants the value of the dollar to go down, thus inflating their way out of debt.

The military keeps the people in line and keeps foreign banks in line to buy treasury bonds.

If you believe in peak oil, the idea is not to get 'cheap' oil. It's to get oil period.