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    Default Will America be the next Europe?

    The best opinion column I've seen awhile on Europe and the US in general. Excellent.

    Are We About to Become the New Europe?

    By Mike Baker

    I've just spent a few days in Europe on business. Business and eating. Possibly more eating of excellent foods than business, I can't be sure due to the quantities of tasty wine consumed. Regardless, as I sit here on the plane in my seat measuring approximately 14 inches wide, I can report the following with some certainty:Without honest governance, serious financial sacrifice and a willingness to focus on individual responsibility America will be Europe in another 15 or 20 years. It's really that simple.

    Remember the recent strikes that threatened to shut down France because the government plans to raise the retirement age from 60 to 62?

    Or the riots in the streets of Athens because the government is trying to rein in spending by restructuring pensions and trimming the size of the government workforce, which currently employs every Greek citizen except one guy named Costas in the town of Thessaloniki?

    How about in the U.K. where firefighters almost went on strike this past week to protest possible changes to their benefits? Ooh, wait...my favorite, BBC journalists went on strike the other day because the BBC, an organization that hasn't made a profit since the days of Queen Victoria, needs to cut costs in order to reduce the size of their annual losses. -- This of course gives us hope that perhaps NPR journalists will follow suit and go on strike.

    And let's not forget the kids... they should have the same right to strike as the grown ups.

    In many parts of Europe striking and joining in street protests is considered a right of passage, much like getting a tattoo or body piercing in order to show how unique and nonconforming you are compared to all the other tatted up protesting kidlets with various metal bits stuck in their gob.

    Why, even now there are thousands of British students (many of whom are paying nothing for their education) taking to the streets in London to protest the UK government's plan to raise tuition fees.
    Much to the chagrin of the young and their parents, it could soon cost anywhere between 6,000 and 9,000 British pounds per year for higher education. Many in the U.K. support the protests, believing that education should fall under the category marked "Paid for by Government."

    Anyway, the kids are out in force... throwing bricks through windows, chanting, smoking clove cigarettes and "flash mobbing"... a hip activity where at the spur of the moment lots of folks receive a text message instructing them to descend upon a particular location all at the same time. I know, I don't get it either, but I'm kind of old.

    So what conclusion are we to draw from the current events in Europe?

    How about this...in Europe folks got used to loads of free stuff over several decades. Hey, who doesn't like free stuff? Ladle on some free education with that excellent government job and maybe a heaping helping of no-cost health care and a splash of reduced work hours so you have more time to enjoy life with your free stuff. Huzzah!

    Here's the bit that, as simple as it sounds and as common sensical as we all know it to be, seems to have been left off the equation. There's no such thing as free stuff. Okay...I know many of you right now are saying "well yeah, no s**t, Sherlock." Right... We all get it -- if you spend more than you make you're eventually going to be in a fiscal goat rope.

    Europe is painfully dealing with this right now -- decades of free crap have created generations of folks who really, really like their free crap. When the various governments now try to steer their ships towards the magical land of fiscal responsibilty, the populations mutiny and someone has to walk the plank.

    Here in America, where we often like to wittily scoff at the Europeans and their vast quantities of free stuff and socialist leanings, we are once again at the point where there is talk about sailing to fiscal responsibility land. This happens every now and then, usually right after a midterm election.

    Why, just look at last week's elections...all the people crying for Democrats to walk the plank because of their reckless ways and efforts to turn us in to Europeans. "Cut spending" the people shouted... "Rein in the deficit" was the rallying call.

    So now we have a Congress that has made a pinky swear to reduce spending. And a population that has demanded fiscal responsibility. We stand on the cusp of not continuing our march towards becoming Europeans.

    But, uhh, we kind of like our entitlements. I mean, who wants to take on Social Security or Medicare? What's that? Raise the Social Security age to 70? Are you insane? Surely we can set those sacred cows aside and still get tough on spending. And then there's education. Cutting that can't be good. And defense...how we gonna do that when the world's a scary place?

    Now, with those items off the table, how much savings do you think can be gleaned from the budget? The answer is $27 dollars and 14 cents. Currently that's the equivalent of one Euro.

    No matter -- the people have spoken and the people demand deficit reduction and serious spending cuts. I'm sure all those newly elected Republicans and Democrats who profess to have heard the demands of the people can find some entitlements somewhere that the people won't mind losing. And just like all the other voters out there, I demand that they get busy.

    Just don't be touching my free stuff.

    And soon, maybe in a few years time, I won't have to wedge my bottom in a 14 inch wide seat to visit Europe. I can just walk out my door. Et voila.

    Mike Baker served for more than 15 years as a covert field operations officer for the Central Intelligence Agency, specializing in counterterrorism, counternarcotics and counterinsurgency operations around the globe.

    Since leaving government service, he has been a principal in building and running several companies in the private intelligence, security and risk management sector and has recently returned to Diligence LLC, a company he cofounded in 2000, as president.

    He appears frequently in the media as an expert on counterterrorism, intelligence and homeland security.
    Destroying anti-US trolls and idiots like broken_legs since 2009.
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    Good article, this is exactly why I've always had skepticism over to much socialist policy. Europe is a perfect example of "don't tax me bro" attitude coupled with a constant childish demand for all their entitlements.

    Greece especially, it has one of the highest rates of tax fraud in the EU, yet it doesn't stop half the nation from going on a hault and decending into riots everytime the government even thinks about spending cuts. Nothing is free, either you're taxed or you're paying from your own pocket.

    I bet you a bunch of those UK young adults will go on to get decent paying jobs from their education, then bitch about all the tax they pay.

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    I don't know, the Nordic countries are pretty socialist and aren't doing too bad.

    http://www.thomaswhite.com/explore-t...utperform.aspx

    http://www.goodnewsfinland.com/archi...dic-economies/

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    I'll admit Nordic nations are doing pretty good, Sweden is probably one of the best run nations on Earth.

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    Originally posted by Hakkola
    I don't know, the Nordic countries are pretty socialist and aren't doing too bad.

    http://www.thomaswhite.com/explore-t...utperform.aspx

    http://www.goodnewsfinland.com/archi...dic-economies/
    partially because they are cutting a lot of social programs as well, to cut down their deficit
    http://www.vancouversun.com/business...900/story.html

    ""Fiscal deficits still exceed what would be necessary to stabilize the public debt ratio," the IMF said. It noted that fiscal tightening plans in Canada, Iceland, Israel, South Korea, Sweden and Switzerland was enough to achieve a decline in debt by 2011."
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    The nordic nations also have one of the highest income tax rates in the world. They continually pay for their free stuff. It's the countries that try to do hand outs and keep taxes low that get it in the proverbial ass.
    Originally posted by FraserB
    I think their main complaint is that they did not receive the stolen property they paid for.

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    Originally posted by 911fever


    partially because they are cutting a lot of social programs as well, to cut down their deficit
    http://www.vancouversun.com/business...900/story.html

    ""Fiscal deficits still exceed what would be necessary to stabilize the public debt ratio," the IMF said. It noted that fiscal tightening plans in Canada, Iceland, Israel, South Korea, Sweden and Switzerland was enough to achieve a decline in debt by 2011."
    Stupid article. I honestly don't get what he was trying to get at. European citizens have been getting free shit from their governments for years, and they protest and cry whenever the government tries to change that... okay... and? Most parts of Europe are as equally democratic as the US, have the same if not better quality of life, and are in an OVERWHELMINGLY less amount of debt than the US. Add to that some great little things about America, like obesity, gang violence, unemployment, inflation, and half the middle east trying to demolish them, and those crazy Europeans who cry about everything sure don't seem so bad now. If the author is trying to say that US citizens are starting to cry like Europeans, good, that's what they NEED to do to get back on track. Cry about the billions spent on the military and useless wars. When the Europeans cry about every little thing and question ever dollar spent by the government, the government feels the pressure and truly does as little as possible to affect them financially, but keep the essential social programs alive.

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    Originally posted by Scuderia


    Stupid article. I honestly don't get what he was trying to get at. European citizens have been getting free shit from their governments for years, and they protest and cry whenever the government tries to change that... okay... and? Most parts of Europe are as equally democratic as the US, have the same if not better quality of life, and are in an OVERWHELMINGLY less amount of debt than the US. Add to that some great little things about America, like obesity, gang violence, unemployment, inflation, and half the middle east trying to demolish them, and those crazy Europeans who cry about everything sure don't seem so bad now. If the author is trying to say that US citizens are starting to cry like Europeans, good, that's what they NEED to do to get back on track. Cry about the billions spent on the military and useless wars. When the Europeans cry about every little thing and question ever dollar spent by the government, the government feels the pressure and truly does as little as possible to affect them financially, but keep the essential social programs alive.
    really? Go to spain and enjoy the 23% unemployment! or Greece where every job is owned by the government! Europe is collectively failing, other than Germany! How's Ireland? haha Europe has more issues and more debt problems than everything, when the US has its rating go from AAA change, then we can worry about the US. I just think Europe is very backwards by taxing the crap out people, stifling entrepeneurs, and only hiring people to work for big government. Only in Europe do people have stupid easy benefits and social security, paid vacations when retired... who pays for all this?
    exactly. The world needs a superpower, and 'pointless wars' reveals your lack of knowledge of the current world situation with terrorism. Saying we need to follow the European model to get on track is facepalm-able hahaha
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    Spain's unemployment rate is not 23%.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Spain

    Also, they sure seem to be living pretty good with all that unemployment.
    http://www.uswitch.com/news/money/uk...-index-890419/

    Europe has more "issues" and debt problems than anyone else? Please, enlighten me with sources on these issues. Maybe this graph is just wrong and I can't read.


    The world needs a superpower, and 'pointless wars' reveals your lack of knowledge of the current world situation with terrorism. Saying we need to follow the European model to get on track is facepalm-able hahaha
    Why do I even bother? If you really think all the wars the U.S has created were necessary because of the big bad terrorists, then you're way past debate.

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    The above graph is useless. You need to look at debt per capita to see a valid comparison. What you've posted is useless without context.

    Originally posted by FraserB
    I think their main complaint is that they did not receive the stolen property they paid for.

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    I don't see how that graph is anymore helpful? Just because the US is such an over populated country doesn't make up for how fucked they are...

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    Originally posted by 5.0
    I don't see how that graph is anymore helpful? Just because the US is such an over populated country doesn't make up for how fucked they are...
    Exactly, your graph just minimizes the number because of the huge difference in population.

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    It reflects government spending per capita. The countries that are at the top of that pile also have a lower GDP and are forced to supply services to the population and maintain high trade deficits. These are the nations that are in trouble. Keep in mind that this chart is a year out of date so some of those have shifted a bit (most notably, Greece hadn't experienced their big collapse at this point).

    Higher debt per capita is a better indication of economical instability than total debt.
    Originally posted by FraserB
    I think their main complaint is that they did not receive the stolen property they paid for.

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    Originally posted by 97'Scort
    It reflects government spending per capita. The countries that are at the top of that pile also have a lower GDP and are forced to supply services to the population and maintain high trade deficits. These are the nations that are in trouble. Keep in mind that this chart is a year out of date so some of those have shifted a bit (most notably, Greece hadn't experienced their big collapse at this point).

    Higher debt per capita is a better indication of economical instability than total debt.
    absolutely. Plus the US population is 300 plus million, Spain population is 45 million and they owe more debt per capita than a person in the US. These are simple concepts that he cannot understand.
    Do not argue whatsoever that Europe is in a better position than the US
    and LOL @ this:
    Spain has the most sunshine, the lowest prices for alcohol and the highest number of days holiday in Europe at 43 days a year. 43 DAYS A YEAR!!! However, the Spanish government spends the least on education.
    Last edited by 911fever; 11-11-2010 at 03:15 PM.
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    Ireland! I didn't realize that they tipped half a million per person.

    I wonder what interest rate they are paying at? If its 10% or so (from the boom times of the 80s') then they are bleeding money at $50,000 per head per year?

    No wonder a pint of Guinness is so expensive - it has to be.

    Might as well go for a soda, nobody hurts and nobody cries.
    Cocoa $11,000 per ton.

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    Jesus, how could you not realize the importance of debt per capita? The USA has 300 million tax payers, that is why when calculated they are not in as serious debt as some point out.

    Lets not forget the US GDP is $14 trillion a year, that is almost triple the second place nation for GDP, which is Japan at about $5 trillion a year.

    America still needs to work on its spending problem, but it isn't as bad as the media wants you to think it is.

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    If the US isn't doing that bad, then they should stop printing money.

    Cheeters! Boo! Hiss!

    Its bad - because they have less than what the markets consider 0.0% growth. 350 million people with less than 0.0% growth is a very very bad thing. Greenland with 6,800 people with less than 0.0% growth is manageable.

    Its like trying to save 1 person from drowning, or 100. And trust me - the US have many people whos noses are just above the waterline right now.

    The US has the potential to get out of debt fairly quickly because of their GDP, but they also have the ability to dig themselves into a hole just as fast.

    Its like in Canada, we raise all holy hell when someone suggests spending $16 Billion on planes to last us for the next decade. Thats the same amount of funny money the US prints up in two weeks, which they didn't work for - but just decided to print. Cheeters!
    Last edited by ZenOps; 11-11-2010 at 09:11 PM.
    Cocoa $11,000 per ton.

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    Ok, I have ZenOps ignored, but I'll explain what the US is really doing:

    Nobody is "printing" more money. There is no physical currency being produced. It's the equivalent of writing IOUs for international trade. No physical form of currency, save the products exhanged, exists.

    If the US wants to write an IOU for a BILLION FUCKING DOLLARS, when they owe NEARLY FOURTEEN TRILLION DOLLARS, that is a debt increase of 7.14x10^-5 %. That means that it has VIRTUTALLY ZERO EFFECT ON INFLATION.

    This is how the US can make a trillion dollars appear out of thin air and not devalue their currency by more than 5 percent. There is so much of it out there in the world that it makes absolutely a fly's-shit of a difference.
    Originally posted by FraserB
    I think their main complaint is that they did not receive the stolen property they paid for.

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    Originally posted by 911fever


    absolutely. Plus the US population is 300 plus million, Spain population is 45 million and they owe more debt per capita than a person in the US. These are simple concepts that he cannot understand.
    Do not argue whatsoever that Europe is in a better position than the US
    and LOL @ this:
    Spain has the most sunshine, the lowest prices for alcohol and the highest number of days holiday in Europe at 43 days a year. 43 DAYS A YEAR!!! However, the Spanish government spends the least on education.
    BOOOOOya!!!


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    Even though I love XKCD, we're having a little macro economics lesson here. Shush
    Originally posted by FraserB
    I think their main complaint is that they did not receive the stolen property they paid for.

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