Rememberance Day: The Poppy

[Modelexis]

Originally posted by Kloubek
Modelexis comes in here and says they should not be remembered BECAUSE they didn't do anything heroic, that's when it pisses me off.

I never said they shouldn't be remembered, I said they shouldn't be praised and hailed as heros of the world anymore than any other soldier fighting for any side of any war should be hailed. If you hail them as heros, by your own logic you should be hailing all other sides of the war and their veterans for the same reasons.

If you want to say they are heros, then I think it would be logical for me to ask the question, how do you know? and what makes all the rest of the worlds veterans not worthy of praise? and if you condemn another country's veterans for their actions, what makes them wrong to do the same to you?

[cycosis]

Originally posted by Modelexis


19 Feb 2010 ... The last Canadian veteran of World War I has died at the age of 109

By my calculations, he would have been ~17 yrs old at the END of WWI.

a 17 yr old who has a gun put in his hand and is told we are the good guys and to kill those bad guys over there has nothing to do with heroism, it has to do with propaganda and peer pressure and threat and ignorance and irresponsibility.
Anything that appears to be heroic is merely following orders and doing what you're told without question, nothing heroic about it IMO.

WWII douche, and he was jsut honoured today at a huge ceremony in orangeville ontario.

[Kloubek]

Originally posted by Modelexis
If you want to say they are heros, then I think it would be logical for me to ask the question, how do you know? and what makes all the rest of the worlds veterans not worthy of praise? and if you condemn another country's veterans for their actions, what makes them wrong to do the same to you?

I'd say that ANY time that citizens volunteer to defend their country from invasion that it makes a pretty damn good case for heroism.

[Modelexis]

Why are you so angry cycosis, do you think that ad hominem attacks are valid in any sense?

[Modelexis]

Originally posted by Kloubek


I'd say that ANY time that citizens volunteer to defend their country from invasion that it makes a pretty damn good case for heroism.

This is at least a consistent position to hold on this topic, I'll give you that much.

Maybe I just don't understand how you can have heros fighting heros.

[speedog]

Originally posted by Modelexis
Maybe I just don't understand how you can have heros fighting heros.

Depends on one's perspective, eh. Do you honestly believe that the Japanese parents who sent theirs kids off to war in WWII didn't think of their kids of anything less than heroes no more than similar American parents?

[HiTempguy1]

Originally posted by speedog
Depends on one's perspective, eh. Do you honestly believe that the Japanese parents who sent theirs kids off to war in WWII didn't think of their kids of anything less than heroes no more than similar American parents?

The difference being right or wrong. Everybody knows that being an aggressor to conquer a nation who has no ill will towards you is WRONG. So whether they "believe" they are hero's or otherwise is irrelevant, they are not.

I find it hilarious modelexis can't seem to comprehend that people fought and died for us so we wouldn't be ruled by the nazis/japanese, and that IS honorable/praise worthy. Fighting for a cause of control and destruction is not honorable.

[Modelexis]

Originally posted by HiTempguy1
I find it hilarious modelexis can't seem to comprehend that people fought and died for us so we wouldn't be ruled by the nazis/japanese, and that IS honorable/praise worthy. Fighting for a cause of control and destruction is not honorable.

You must then know that Canada was never attacked by Germany or Japan?

You must also know that for the last 10 years Canada has been fighting in a war about control and destruction.

[derpderp]

Ok I get the point Modelexis has, depending on the side you're on you'll have obviously thought you were doing the right thing, for the wrong reasons, propaganda did control the desire to go to war for men on both sides but at least allied men and women had the right to disagree with the war.

I want to at least point out the young allied men who fought in the world war were not just haphazardly invading nations at the direction of a supreme dictator and hate. The allies protected the oppressed and misfortunate who were forced into war by an aggressive nation bent on dominating Europe and placing everyone who wasn't of German origin under the thumb of nationals.

People in Europe paraded in the streets and still to this day give awards to the men who died so dictorial oppression could be ended.

I know Afghanistan and all that is a diffrent story.

[derpderp]

Originally posted by Modelexis


You must then know that Canada was never attacked by Germany or Japan?

You must also know that for the last 10 years Canada has been fighting in a war about control and destruction.

Sorry Canada was pretty much Great Britian at the time, so they did attack us.

Pretty much like saying that current day Quebec isn't Canada, and if attacked we shouldn't do anything about it.

[kvg]

Originally posted by Modelexis


You must then know that Canada was never attacked by Germany or Japan?

You must also know that for the last 10 years Canada has been fighting in a war about control and destruction.

Just shut up please

[Scuderia]

Originally posted by HiTempguy1


The ignorance, oh the ignorance.

At first I was confused as to how someone could have this opinion. Then I realized he bases his ignorant viewpoint on wars like Iraq and Afghanistan. A LOT more people fought and died in WW1 and WW2 compared to these wars. They were faced with opression of the worst kind (complete destruction) and yet you, hipster piece of shit, feel the need to bash on a day where people who made a difference in this world are to be remembered.

Fuck you.

See, I tried to be civil, but this guy comes in and elightens us with his half autistic opinions. Can you fucking read? We get it, all you poppy-wearing, war advocating, veteran remembering, good samaritans are right, and us "hipsters" are wrong. If you took the time to try to fight the overwhelming symptoms of your mental retardation, and read what I said, you would've noticed that I FULLY SUPPORT showing respect and appreciation for vets. I'm not budging, I FULLY understand where Modelexis is coming from, and just because you have the IQ of my ballsack doesn't mean were both anti-canadian pro nazi dirtbags. No matter what it comes down to, these people, wether they were 16 or 66, lost their lives to protect democracy and ultimately allow us to live the way we do. I fully respect that. I live in this country, comfortably, freely, and happily, so I better fuckin respect that. Now, just because you wear a bunch of poppies and prance around hailing the army and letting everyone know how much you respect the magnitude of today, doesn't mean I respect them any less than you. I just chose to keep it to myself, because I don't need to waltz around proving to everyone else that I'm grateful.

Didn't you refer to brown people as "Dirka Dirka's"?
Fuck you too.

[BigMass]

Originally posted by HiTempguy1


The difference being right or wrong. Everybody knows that being an aggressor to conquer a nation who has no ill will towards you is WRONG. So whether they "believe" they are hero's or otherwise is irrelevant, they are not.

I find it hilarious modelexis can't seem to comprehend that people fought and died for us so we wouldn't be ruled by the nazis/japanese, and that IS honorable/praise worthy. Fighting for a cause of control and destruction is not honorable.

No such thing as right vs wrong or good vs evil. It’s all bullshit. The world socio political structure is so complicated nobody will every have the entire picture of what went into the decision making process at the higher ends of government. The Germans were repelling a legitimate communist threat and the Japanese were staving off economic warfare from the west. Not to mention the historical imperialistic actions against what was basically an isolationist Japan by the west.

Heroes are the victors of a war that results in a shift or strengthening of imperialistic influence and power. History is written by the victors. Most history is false and tainted with propaganda, or at best misrepresented and biased. Every side has a cause they feel is virtuous and noble. Or at least that’s what they manage to convince their mindless populous regardless of their true objectives.

As for the whole wearing a poppy bit. Well do it, or feel the wrath when you don’t chose to participate in the mindless collectivist rituals of the masses. Wave the flag, sing the national anthem, support your government, wear a poppy, buy a tree for Christmas, buy an Ipod, wear a shirt and tie to a business meeting etc. Drones mimicking acts of self assurance representative of the lack of evolutionary progression humans have faced since the cro-magnon.

If Germany and Japan became the dominant imperial powers after WW2 and you grew up into that type of world, you’d be remembering the fallen Nazi heroes who died for your freedom, so you can be home right now enjoying your German car and Japanese electronics…. Oh wait that wouldn’t be much different than right now

[Kloubek]

You know.. I have just SO many things to say and SO many ways to rip you apart Modelexis. But I think it is pretty clear that no matter how obvious something is, or how absurd your arguments are that absolutely no facts or common sense is going to sway you from your position.

As such, I'm going to exit this conversation with a statement that war is stupid, no matter how you look at it. At least THAT is something I think we can both agree on.

[speedog]

I'd dare say that the OP wasn't intending on this much confrontation coming out of this thread.

Just edited out a whole bunch of stuff I was going to say - not worth it.

Just am so glad that I don't have the pent up rage inside of me that is being vented so freely in this thread. Really, this thread demonstrates just how pathetic human beings can be - nasty, vile beings who are unable to acknowledge that others may have differing viewpoints and beliefs from their own and that that is okay. Sad, just fucking sad.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[LollerBrader]

Originally posted by Modelexis
To me the poppy gives war a false aire of benevolence or virtue.

Increasingly, the poppy is becoming a symbol of one's support for war.

Won't catch me dead wearing one.

At the likker store tonight, I wished the hindoos a "happy rememberance day".

They told me they didn't know it was rememberance day.

I laughed, and suggested they not share that with others.


Happy rememberance day everyone.

[HiTempguy1]

Originally posted by Modelexis


You must then know that Canada was never attacked by Germany or Japan?

Was never attacked due to its intervention in the war along with the United States. Good job on trying to leave out those important bits of information.

You must also know that for the last 10 years Canada has been fighting in a war about control and destruction.

Wrong and wrong. YOU think its about control and destruction. Good for you, shiny asshat. Not everyone thinks that.

Edit-
As for Scuderia, I can't even begin to respond to him. You think I can't read? Hell, you don't even know where this thread has gone since the 3rd post

[Scuderia]

Originally posted by HiTempguy1


Was never attacked due to its intervention in the war along with the United States. Good job on trying to leave out those important bits of information.



Wrong and wrong. YOU think its about control and destruction. Good for you, shiny asshat. Not everyone thinks that.

Edit-
As for Scuderia, I can't even begin to respond to him. You think I can't read? Hell, you don't even know where this thread has gone since the 3rd post

...Good one? Other than me lol'ing at your fail attempts at quoting, what was the point of your post? Please, begin to respond to me. I'd love to hear what you have to say, big bad veteran man.

[projekz]

Originally posted by BigMass




Heroes are the victors of a war that results in a shift or strengthening of imperialistic influence and power. History is written by the victors. Most history is false and tainted with propaganda, or at best misrepresented and biased. Every side has a cause they feel is virtuous and noble. Or at least that’s what they manage to convince their mindless populous regardless of their true objectives.

Good point, I wonder if the Japanese and the Germans have remembrance day