canada's collecton agency?

[Team_Mclaren]

Originally posted by C_Dave45

hmmm ok so you took a risk and lost.... now you are looking for leniency? ok?

Sure the penalties are harsh, but the situation couldve easily been avoided imo...

[C_Dave45]

Originally posted by Team_Mclaren


Sure the penalties are harsh, but the situation couldve easily been avoided imo...

Isn't that what I said?

Sure, I could have handled it differently. I could have played it safe and not try to invest/make some money

So you think $43,000 is a just penalty for a $40,000 debt?

[mx73someday]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak
[B]
The both of you are on crack... without the CRA, nobody would pay tax... without tax there would be no government, without the government there would be no law enforcement or infrastructure (and at least a thousand other things you take for granted in day to day life).[/b

There are a lot of assumptions here. Government can persist without income tax, so you could say goodbye to a large part of the CRA right there. If government paid for what things were worth and relied on voluntary payments for services, then they would have no need to tax.

The largest assumption is that there would be complete disorder without government and that systems of justice could not be established without monopolistic central planning. I disagree, I think as long as there is a demand for a service like justice or defense, someone would provide it. Unless of course it is strictly prohibited by a group of parasitical control freaks.

[NuclearPizzaMan]

Keep all your paperwork safe and in order when dealing with the CRA. 9 months after I closed a business and filed the appropriate paperwork to kill the GST account, they came after me for 3 pay periods where I hadn't delivered their GST. Took a month of bouncing back and forth, a letter they sent demanding $0.00 from me, and threatening to take me to collections before I finally talked to someone with the authority to fix a problem that shouldn't have existed.

It's incredible to talk to someone who acknowledges that yes, your account is closed and it's impossible for you to owe more, but hey, you need to send us this cheque for $0.00 or we are going to ruin your credit, and then you.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[C_Dave45]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak


I don't think people would make voluntary payments to the government... maybe I don't have enough faith in humanity.

Also how exactly do you envision a privatized justice and defence system working?

I sure as he'll wouldn't. But I really don't have a problem paying income tax. Seems funny though, that the gov't seemed to fair alright before the first world war. Income tax was suppose to be temporary..."just to help out the boys fighting for us" I guess it worked too well.
I DO have a problem with GST though. it's turned small businesses into nothing more than "tax collectors" for the gov. In doing so it has ruined so many self employed "sub-contractors".

[Tomaz]

Jesus.

These horror stories make me a bit nervous for not filing this past year... Granted, I only owe $120, but still.


I am shocked by these penalties the CRA come up with. How is 200% even come close to seeming reasonable. It feels like trying to pay off debt to some Mobster.

[88CRX]

I was also recently (almost) screwed over by the CRA.

A couple years ago I did the whole RRSP contributions and withdrawals for a first time home buyer, went through my Royal Bank, reviewed everything multiple times and it was all good. I moved in over a year passes and I get a notice from the CRA that my withdrawal wasn't legit and I owe income tax (within 90 days) on the $25k that I took out to pay for my home. The payment had been taken out 3 years earlier!

They claimed that you only have 1 year from the time you withdrawal the money to when you have to take possession, well dumbass developer over here took over 2.5 years to build my home (long story) so it didn't qualify anymore. After multiple discussion with some lady on the phone who could barely grasp the english language, she couldn't understand that I have no control over down payment date vs possession date. She said I needed a possession date on my contract that I signed with the developer. Doesn't happen, builders give you 90 days notice, thats it. Well she didn't get it, she wanted a construction schedule. Sent them some paper work and it was denied again.

At this point I was royally pissed so I ended up faxing her everything I received from the developer (interior finish selections, upgrade selections, site plans, legal plans, contract, payment info, marketing crap, etc etc etc etc) haha. I must have faxed her at least 100+ pages of shit just to piss them off. Luckily she interpreted whatever I sent her as acceptable and approved my withdrawals.

On top of that they are impossible to get on the phone.... I was livid dealing with them.

[mx73someday]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak


I don't think people would make voluntary payments to the government... maybe I don't have enough faith in humanity.

Why not? Is it because the services are unwanted? Maybe they are overpriced?

Also how exactly do you envision a privatized justice and defence system working?

You can look up Dispute Resolution Organization (DRO) for a theoretical concept of how private justice could spontaneously organize.

Private defence is not a new concept, it just tends to be outlawed by people calling themselves government. Primarily because they don't like the competition proving that their own services are lacking quality and are overpriced.

[lilmira]

Originally posted by mx73someday


Why not? Is it because the services are unwanted? Maybe they are overpriced?

My guess is that majority will still use the service but skip the voluntary payment. Then the government goes broke, becomes powerless to do anything, then comes the zombie outbreak.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[Tomaz]

Originally posted by mx73someday


Why not? Is it because the services are unwanted? Maybe they are overpriced?



You can look up Dispute Resolution Organization (DRO) for a theoretical concept of how private justice could spontaneously organize.

Private defence is not a new concept, it just tends to be outlawed by people calling themselves government. Primarily because they don't like the competition proving that their own services are lacking quality and are overpriced.

Nice theories...

You forgot one thing: PEOPLE ARE IDIOTS

Nobody would want to pay tax. The richer would get richer, the poor will become more poor. Nobody would volunteer for anything. People would fight each other for what they would consider "lawful arrest".

If you don't believe that, history tells us everything. England, Russia, China, France, Monarchy, Nazi Germany, Conquest of Africa, Slavery, World War, etc.

Countless times the world has given power to the people, and it becomes abused. People want 2 things in life, money and power. If you don't control it, it will be taken and abused. It's human nature.

[spikerS]

Originally posted by Tomaz


Countless times the world has given power to the people, and it becomes abused. People want 2 things in life, money and power. If you don't control it, it will be taken and abused. It's human nature.

absolute power, corrupts.

Humans are a despicable race. The pope or ghandi or whoever you all want to hold in high esteem would shoot someone in the street for $1 billion and for a guarantee they would not face any kind of punishment and they would remain anonymous from the public. Humans are self centered greedy fucks. myself included.

the only thing that holds us in check is pretty much peer review.

[Tomaz]

Originally posted by spikers


absolute power, corrupts.

Humans are a despicable race. The pope or ghandi or whoever you all want to hold in high esteem would shoot someone in the street for $1 billion and for a guarantee they would not face any kind of punishment and they would remain anonymous from the public. Humans are self centered greedy fucks. myself included.

the only thing that holds us in check is pretty much peer review.

Choose option "A" or "B"... Either way, we are all fucked. lol

[broken_legs]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak



The both of you are on crack... without the CRA, nobody would pay tax... without tax there would be no government, without the government there would be no law enforcement or infrastructure (and at least a thousand other things you take for granted in day to day life).

FYI - Before WWI there was no income tax in Canada. HOW DID WE MANAGE FOR ALL OF THOSE YEARS??? ZOMG!

For the early part of Canadian history most federal government revenue came from tariffs on trade with excise taxes making up the rest of the government's funding. The largest source of provincial funding was licenses, permits, and transfers of funds from the federal government. The first corporate taxes were introduced at the end of the nineteenth century.

A crisis developed during the Great Depression because the provinces were responsible for skyrocketing welfare costs, but could not raise enough revenue since the taxes permitted to the provinces were so dependent on the health of the economy. The federal government still had considerable revenues however, which resulted in a system of transfer payments between the two levels of government. The transfer payments are still in place today.

The First World War had mostly been financed by traditional means, but in 1917, a tax on income was introduced as a temporary measure to fund the war

[broken_legs]

Originally posted by mx73someday


Why not? Is it because the services are unwanted? Maybe they are overpriced?



You can look up Dispute Resolution Organization (DRO) for a theoretical concept of how private justice could spontaneously organize.

Private defence is not a new concept, it just tends to be outlawed by people calling themselves government. Primarily because they don't like the competition proving that their own services are lacking quality and are overpriced.

DROs are bunk dude.

What would stop the DROs from colluding and conspiring?

OH yes - Dont want a bad reputation. My Ass. If they have money they can hire lawyers, influence media, the same way that big corporations do now. Big corporations will control the DROs.

You need an impartial body - thats supposed to be government and the law or framework that it enforces.

Giving control to corporations and expecting it to get better is completely bonkers.

[C_Dave45]

Originally posted by broken_legs

FYI - Before WWI there was no income tax in Canada. HOW DID WE MANAGE FOR ALL OF THOSE YEARS??? ZOMG!

not reading all the posts, I see

Originally posted by C_Dave45
.... Seems funny though, that the gov't seemed to fair alright before the first world war. Income tax was suppose to be temporary..."just to help out the boys fighting for us" I guess it worked too well. ...

[mx73someday]

Originally posted by broken_legs

DROs are bunk dude.

What would stop the DROs from colluding and conspiring?

OH yes - Dont want a bad reputation. My Ass. If they have money they can hire lawyers, influence media, the same way that big corporations do now. Big corporations will control the DROs.

You need an impartial body - thats supposed to be government and the law or framework that it enforces.

Giving control to corporations and expecting it to get better is completely bonkers.

Corporations are a product of statism, they wouldn't exist in the absence of states.

I'm not suggesting that you end statism tomorrow and expect adequate systems to appear overnight. This is like expecting "democracy" to work at the beginning of civilization. All I'm suggesting is the relaxation of state intervention and monopolies on common services in order to bring an end to statism and transition to a more voluntary system.

[broken_legs]

Originally posted by mx73someday


Corporations are a product of statism, they wouldn't exist in the absence of states.

I'm not suggesting that you end statism tomorrow and expect adequate systems to appear overnight. This is like expecting "democracy" to work at the beginning of civilization. All I'm suggesting is the relaxation of state intervention and monopolies on common services in order to bring an end to statism and transition to a more voluntary system.

ok

replace corporation with person or company or organization of like minded people or any group or association you can think of.

People with money and power will use that to gain advantages.

DROs are for-profit and self interested, thus they are easily controlled.

Government should provide the not-for-profit not-self-interested resolution. The problem is that we let government get away with stuff because we are complacent. If we actually held government accountable (not sure how to do this), i doubt there would be so many self serving crooks in charge and government could actually do what its supposed to.