Want to see the quality of todays "finishing carpenters"?

[C_Dave45]

This is what you new-home buyers DON'T see....whats underneath all the shiny new tile, paint and floor coverings. This tub-deck construction was after THREE ATTEMPTS by the so-called "finishing carpenter" to get it right at my request. I mean really...is a tub deck THAT hard to construct?!?? My kid sister could do a better job.
The pictures also don't show that the tub was glued into place at over 3/4" out-of-square. They had to completely remove the tub. This is their "final product".

And now I'm supposed to make it look all straight and level?!!

[SJW]

Brutal. No pride in todays work.

Someone for sure owns a walmart skilsaw though.

[89s1]

This is the reason I installed my own kitchen cabinets/cupboards recently.

[kevie88]

OMG what the hell! That's ridiculous.

[That.Guy.S30]

interested in what builder this is...

[Heff]

Many 'builder trades' are wanna-be apprentices doing the same stuff day after day - without enough supervision.

Good on you for checking if it's your build. Make the builder fix it and deal with the trade.

[89coupe]

Originally posted by C_Dave45
This is what you new-home buyers DON'T see....whats underneath all the shiny new tile, paint and floor coverings. This tub-deck construction was after THREE ATTEMPTS by the so-called "finishing carpenter" to get it right at my request. I mean really...is a tub deck THAT hard to construct?!?? My kid sister could do a better job.
The pictures also don't show that the tub was glued into place at over 3/4" out-of-square. They had to completely remove the tub. This is their "final product".

And now I'm supposed to make it look all straight and level?!!

What builder?

[C_Dave45]

Originally posted by That.Guy.S30
interested in what builder this is...

Take your pick...I see this in all the major builders' homes. I work in about half a dozen of the larger builders. Entry to mid-level homes are built by the lowest bidders in every trade. So you're pretty much getting a home built by the cheapest of the cheap labour rates. Want to know how much I get paid for that jacuzzi? (because I'm "subbing" for this job, I don't control the rate..) A grand total of $105. Less the cost of glue. So maybe a net profit of about $75..and thats AFTER I've picked up and delivered the material, set, and grouted it, and returned to silicone. How much time do you think I'm gonna spend on that? Sad but true.

Originally posted by Heff
Many 'builder trades' are wanna-be apprentices doing the same stuff day after day - without enough supervision.

Good on you for checking if it's your build. Make the builder fix it and deal with the trade.

Not my build. I'm just one of the trades.
That IS fixed. It's as good as it's going to get. The truth of the matter is that within a year or two that tile will start to crack and fail. Builder will be long gone, or at the very least, extremely hard to get back to fix.

*edit*: Coupe....snip your quote. We don't need multiples of the same images.

[Chandler_Racing]

I'm curious on the builder too.

[spikerS]

you could always forward that to the home owner.

I know if I was building a house, I would LOVE to get this kind of info.

[big A]

Wouldn't that have been the framer?

Most Finish carpenters think they are too almighty to do rough carpentry. When they are really no better than a framer except they can't handle the cold or lift heavy things.
Am I the only one that understands Dave doesn't want to say who the builder is? They really are all the same unless you have huge money and pay for a custom built home.

It is just impressive that he has enough pride in himself to do the best he can(which I believe is quite good from pics i've seen) while not making much money during these slow months.

[Muji]

My father is not a "finishing carpenter", but it really looks like his handyman skills at work there. Now my mother looks after this side of the family work, she can do a better job than that crap from a "pro".

This is exactly why C_Dave45's house will always get a premium price on the market, he has a well trained eye and knows there is only one result acceptable. I have a friend who works in commercial construction/plumbing, he is always wondering if his standards are too high as his work is always done to a greater standard than that of his coworkers. It drives him nuts at work the fact there are clowns working and earning under the title of "professional". Some really need to seek out a new career, which career has a "who gives a shit" attitude?

[C_Dave45]

Originally posted by big A
Wouldn't that have been the framer?

Most Finish carpenters think they are too almighty to do rough carpentry. When they are really no better than a framer except they can't handle the cold or lift heavy things.
Am I the only one that understands Dave doesn't want to say who the builder is? They really are all the same unless you have huge money and pay for a custom built home.

It is just impressive that he has enough pride in himself to do the best he can(which I believe is quite good from pics i've seen) while not making much money during these slow months.

Thank you. Sadly, no this was a finishing guy. But I would never take a framer to do something like this. That is half the problem, builders and "carpenters" whether framers or finishers, think it can be just "rough framed".
Ideally it should be built with studs and 3/4" ply. A good finishing carpenter can build something like this within a half a day and it would be good enough to just apply paint. Mitred corners, glued and screwed, finished edges along outside edges, etc.
I've been in this trade for 28 years...I've never seen a framer who can do proper "finish carpentry". A certified, journeyman, old-schooled finishing carpenter is quite a different trade than a framer. Not too many framers would know how to "grain match, biscuit jointed, dove-tailed" raw lumber construction.
Sadly, today's tradesmen are nowhere near what their brothers were in the "olden days".

[project240]

Dave, why are you posting up my work?? LOL.

That's embarrassing.

Truthfully though, like you said, we see it constantly. I don't work at all in new builds, but I'm constantly in homes a couple years old fixing shit work like this, that is somehow passed off as complete.

I find myself constantly shaking my head, wondering how the hell someone who is supposed to be qualified can do a job like this and call it done.

Sad part is, I'm sure you see it constantly and I doubt this is even anywhere near the worst you've seen. I think I've got to start bringing a camera with to work... I've seen some pretty horrible work as well.

[Kona9]

Honestly Dave, I can see this puts you between a rock and a hard place. For the effort put forth to the payout at the end, I would just walk and let the builder know that the quality of work you provide will never be laid on sub standard, jerry rigged craftsmanship put together by a blind kid with tourettes.

Shit, that's like a Ferrari mechanic being forced to work on an old POS Rusted out Ford that got towed out of a Mclean Creek Park mud pit.

Buuuut, if you walk from one of these jobs, doesn't it kill your whole contract with said builder?

[project240]

Originally posted by C_Dave45

A certified, journeyman, old-schooled finishing carpenter is quite a different trade than a framer. Not too many framers would know how to "grain match, biscuit jointed, dove-tailed" raw lumber construction.
Sadly, today's tradesmen are nowhere near what their brothers were in the "olden days".

I got my start working with an older Romanian Cabinetmaker. He constantly laughed about today's construction methods... butt joints, brads, and glue instead of rabbits, dadoes, and half laps.

They just don't build things like they used to......

[Cos]

This is why I am buying a 1950's house and putting paint down.

[Heff]

Originally posted by project240

rabbits, dadoes, and half laps.

Take time, teaching and skill.
Some of the apprentice wannabe's working for builders in calgary only do circ-saw framing with whatever fastener they happen to have in their apron.

Not all - but builder's are not necessarily a good source of high-quality trades education. and they don't usually want to hire journeymen - too expensive...

It's kinda sad.

[Tik-Tok]

Originally posted by Cos
This is why I am building a 1950's house and putting paint down.

Whoah, you time travel now?

50's houses aren't without their problems as well. I own a '59, and although the framing construction is awesome, there seemed to be no standard sizing for back then, lol. When we replaced the interior doors (incl. jambs), I had to have special orders for all 4 because of the weird jamb height/width dimensions. Then when I ripped out the old ones, the depth was way off as well, lol. I made it work, but it wasn't easy.

Don't even get me started on the 5 decades of morons fucking with the wiring too, and thinking they know how to build a basement (Duuurrrrrr, lets build a bathroom around the main electrical panel!!! We'll just install the shower right next to it!)

[Cos]

Whoops.... buying.... that is why I am buying.

Haha



Yeah I know what you mean. I am going to buy something and it will have its problems. I dunno I just find the area I am going to buy much nicer with better built houses but not without their problems I will admit.