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Thread: Calgary Public Transit Discussion Thread

  1. #21
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    Originally posted by nutella
    Sometimes cheaper isn't better...

    I see what you're saying and I truly don't expect them to place the LRT line right on Centre Street

    Maybe there are plans to have the North Central LRT line continue past the zoo, into downtown and/or beyond? If so then I can definitely see the potential for this line
    There was a story on it but it was something in the billions just to bury the road/line. Then you have to build the infrastructure. Another chance would be to go up 14th street off SAIT but you would have to do something to the winterclub and police station.

    Also I never said the cheaper way was better, however I am not into paying 1.4 billion dollars (if I remember the actual cost) for a line to my front door.
    Originally posted by adam c

    Line goes up, line goes down, line does squiggly things and fucks Alberta
    "The stone age didn't end because we ran out of stones"

  2. #22
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    looking at the final outcome they should have some kind of ring train system or else downtown will become even more of a cluster fuck with all the trains going through it
    Sig nuked by mod.

  3. #23
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    yeah...no to 1.4 billion or anything close to that >_>

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    Originally posted by Benny



    THIS!

    I don't really care about the bus not running that late, but holy fuck is it ever awful trying to get a cab late at night. Not to mention I've had to leave a bunch of concerts at the Dome early because the last train is about to come. What the hell kinda supposed "World Class City" doesn't have a 24 hour train line?
    Well for starters, Paris, London, Toronto and several others. There are some that do though. New York runs some of the main lines 24 hours, while many shut down. Amsterdam has some lines that are 24 hours, etc.

    In the cases of Paris, London, Toronto, etc. that don't, there are often all-night buses that take over and run the same routes as the subways. The main reasons for shutting down lines for a few hours at night is to perform track and vehicle maintenance (this happens in Calgary too), as well as to preserve the budgeted transit hours for when they are more needed during peak periods during the day.

    Keep in mind that these are cities that are several times the size of Calgary as well.

    Al that said, there has been musings about it. The route 3 (busiest in the system) might be used as a pilot project for 24 hour service in Calgary.

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    Originally posted by nutella
    Why did they choose to have the North Central LRT end at the zoo? At least that's what it looks like to me on the map. It makes absolutely no sense to me at all. You may as well call it the North Central East LRT since it kinda veers off to the east.

    People that take the 301, 3, and the express buses that go from the north to downtown and beyond will most likely still continue taking the buses.

    If your stop is downtown and/or you need to transfer downtown - why would you take the North Central? That's an extra transfer you would have to do. Get off at the zoo, try to board the packed City Centre train to get downtown, only to have to transfer again.

    But hey it's great for families going to the zoo.
    Where it appears to end at the zoo, it is actually designed to go all the way downtown, sharing track with the existing NE LRT line.

    For the record, there is significant opposition to the planned routing of the North Central line, including from Mayor Nenshi. He actually mentions this in the video I posted above (the post with the Herald article). I personally don't like the planned north central routing either.

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    Double post.

  7. #27
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    Fares are my biggest beef.

    I only take the train and I have to pay $90/month.

    CT needs to impliment train-only, bus-only, and all inclusive passes for those of us who only take the train.
    Tim

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    Originally posted by frinkprof
    Where it appears to end at the zoo, it is actually designed to go all the way downtown, sharing track with the existing NE LRT line.

    For the record, there is significant opposition to the planned routing of the North Central line, including from Mayor Nenshi. He actually mentions this in the video I posted above (the post with the Herald article). I personally don't like the planned north central routing either.
    Well that's a relief to hear but then the other issue is the congestion of trains downtown as adam c pointed out

    Are there any plans to scrap the "honor system" or at least try to reclaim the lost revenue generated by people who don't pay?

    I've gone to Chicago a few times and I'm always amazed at how clean their trains are. No one gets onto the platform without paying. Which means less bums riding the trains. And there's always a security guard at each station (at least during the day).

    I know there will be opposition from people who will be adamant that the free fare zone be kept but couldn't a compromise be in order? Swipe the smart card to get in and swipe the smart card to get out? If the system sees that you're still within the free fare zone, then it doesn't deduct the $ from the card.

  9. #29
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    Originally posted by nutella


    Well that's a relief to hear but then the other issue is the congestion of trains downtown as adam c pointed out
    Yeah. This is but one of the reasons I don't like the proposed routing for the north central line. Basically the north central line sharing track with the northeast line will re-create the same problem that the 8th Avenue Subway will solve. With the subway, the northwest and south lines will no longer use 7th Avenue, leaving that corridor to be used exclusively by the northeast and west lines. Then once the north-central line (as proposed) is added, the same problem occurs.

    Right now 7th Avenue is at capacity due to the 2 lines sharing that track.



    Originally posted by nutella
    Are there any plans to scrap the "honor system" or at least try to reclaim the lost revenue generated by people who don't pay?

    I've gone to Chicago a few times and I'm always amazed at how clean their trains are. No one gets onto the platform without paying. Which means less bums riding the trains. And there's always a security guard at each station (at least during the day).

    I know there will be opposition from people who will be adamant that the free fare zone be kept but couldn't a compromise be in order? Swipe the smart card to get in and swipe the smart card to get out? If the system sees that you're still within the free fare zone, then it doesn't deduct the $ from the card.
    No plans as far as I'm aware. The thing is that it is a numbers game and any increase of fare enforcement past a certain point (in the name of reclaiming evaded fares) will cost more than the fares being reclaimed. There's been studies on this (not specific to Calgary, but the same principles would be involved, with similar conclusions). Labour (officers or attendants) is expensive and the philosophy on station design in Calgary dictates that turnstiles aren't in the offing without significant retrofitting or overhauls to their layout and design. Fare evasion still occurs in systems with turnstiles anyway.

    I can't speak for Chicago, but my guess would be that the volumes they carry makes the numbers more favorable for having station attendants. The other element to consider is the likely higher occurrence of violent crime there, meaning that recouping otherwise lost fares isn't the complete endgame there.

    Regarding the fare-free zone, I can see both sides to the issue, and I don't have a strong opinion either way. I really don't think it will be scrapped anytime soon though.
    Last edited by frinkprof; 01-15-2011 at 08:12 PM.

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    Originally posted by frinkprof
    NORTH CENTRAL LRT

    Stations: 8

    click for larger version
    » Click image for larger version
    According to this, they're either going straight under, over, or through my house between 64 and 96. Knowing CT it's going through because they don't build under/overground unless absolutely necessary

    Also, wtf is aurora?
    Last edited by jwslam; 01-16-2011 at 06:14 PM.

  11. #31
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    Originally posted by jwslam


    According to this, they're either going straight under, over, or through my house between 64 and 96.

    Also, wtf is aurora?
    While I don't know for sure, I highly doubt it. It's just a matter of the scale of the line represented on the map. It is slated to go up the Nose Creek corridor on the west side of Deerfoot Trail, which I assume is just to the east of your house.

    Aurora is the name of an industrial/business park.

  12. #32
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    Im also happy that I dont take the Ctrain to much.

    I do have to say there are some things that bother me a lot.

    First the city seems against the environment because everything they do goes against people taking transit.

    Second is fact there really is no times for the trains. They come and go when they want. They say 5 min but start their 15 min runs well before the switch over time.

    Third I hate the way they dont have a announcement at the end of the lines. I live in Somerset and only once in a blue moon the operator will say "all aboard". Usually its once you get close they just take off.

  13. #33
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    Another good and thorough article in today's Herald about the future of the C-Train. I guess they must be doing some sort of series on it.

    Six-legged LRT with 45 new stations slated for Calgary

    70-km addition in next 30 years to offer airport, southeast links

    By Jason Markusoff, Calgary Herald January 16, 2011 7:34 AM

    In its first three decades, the C-Train has spread out its light-rail tendrils 46 kilometres.

    With three more decades' worth of expansions essentially mapped out, it stands to stretch out more than 70 additional kilometres, becoming a six-legged monster with more than 45 new stations.

    And yes, that includes an airport LRT stop.

    Most plans are still many years, engineering studies and billions of dollars away.

    "As much as we love the C-Train -- and we do -- there are two drawbacks with C-Train: it's very expensive and it's very inflexible, so we have to be really darn sure when we lay those tracks that's exactly the right thing to do," Mayor Naheed Nenshi says.

    "And we have to weigh that against other public transit priorities."

    [...]

    But with the fullest year of West LRT construction ahead, as well as an imminent council decision on how fast the southeast line gets built and a major consultation on where another train route should go, the C-Train's 30th-anniversary year will be a pivotal one in its history. Here's a look at the C-Train now and into the future:

    [...]

    Until recently, the city deemed the subway line a necessity this decade, a priority before even the southeast LRT.

    McKendrick now says the shift to four-car trains will greatly forestall the plan, although a north-central alignment along Nose Creek would also use the 7th Avenue corridor and hasten the subway dig's timeline.

    [...]

    LRT Advances

    Mid-2011 -¦ Digital displays will be erected at C-Train stations alerting riders when the next three trains will arrive;

    -¦ Fare machines at stations that allow credit-card use.

    2012 - -Smart-card fare payment begins;

    -¦ West LRT opens to 69th Street.

    2014 -¦ Four-car trains on Tuscany-Somerset line.
    Link to rest of the article
    Last edited by frinkprof; 01-16-2011 at 12:28 PM.

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    North LRT - will be a long time coming. Underground on Centre Street would make the most sense as it would serve the communities best up to Beddington Trail. Anything run on Nose Creek seems almost pointless as those stations would kind of be in a no man's land making them far enough away from most commuters who might otherwise walk to a Centre Street based system.
    Will fuck off, again.

  15. #35
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    Since the north central route has been brought up by a few people, here's a relevant excerpt from the article I posted above.

    This spring, Calgary Transit will ask residents for their opinion in a public consultation that will propose three optional alignments: along Nose Creek, down Edmonton Trail, or along Centre Street, which is already dominated by buses.

  16. #36
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    Waste of money to expand rail right now.

    The money is being spent on expanding the stations so that a 4th car can be used. This will potentially alleviate congestion maybe 15% (no not 25%, as logical as that might sound)

    For the future: The south leg is much cheaper to expand than the other legs because it parallels the railway tracks laid over a hundred years ago. The ground has already been compacted, surveyed, and working for traincars that are easily 20x the weight of the LRT (meaning little extra cost other than the actual laying of the track)

    $1.4 billion is a high number for one station and section of track, $600 million is a better number for the South. A north section might be more like $750 million.
    Cocoa $11,000 per ton.

  17. #37
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    Originally posted by ZenOps
    For the future: The south leg is much cheaper to expand than the other legs because it parallels the railway tracks laid over a hundred years ago. The ground has already been compacted, surveyed, and working for traincars that are easily 20x the weight of the LRT (meaning little extra cost other than the actual laying of the track)
    Since when? 100 years ago they didn't compact anything - they just created a railroad bed by scraping up a bit of soil from the surrounding area to elevate the rail bed just a bit before putting down some aggregate, ties and rails. Certainly, the CPR did not waste their time compacting anything adjacent to the working rails because it was a waste of their time and money and if one looks hard enough, the south LRT follows along side of the CPR right of way, but certainly is not on top of any previously compacted rail bed as most of the original line going south out of Calgary was single track.
    Will fuck off, again.

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    frinkprof have you heard anything about the start up dates of the new bus routes to/from the airport?

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    Is it still costly to use the undergound city tunnels?

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    For anyone that cares, what do you guys think of the Westwinds LRT station?

    I think thats got to be the worst station in the world. Design/construction everything about it. I'm guessing Martindale and Saddleridge will be even worse.

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