Calgary Public Transit Discussion Thread

[Xtrema]

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So we basically got these to replace a few buses and run may be 20 block underground to downtown?

Are these going to be running in the middle of centre street with barriers from normal traffic?

[Cos]

.

[realazy]

From comments on the link, it looks like it'll be low floor LRTs. From google, it looks like it wouldn't need separate lanes, much like Toronto.


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If it's like that, it's just basically a really long bus...

[yellowsnow]

Estimated start date for construction is 2017... hopefully they can follow through!

[Maxx Mazda]

Street level transit systems are so fucking stupid.... Had they put the infrastructure in place back in the Duerr era, we wouldn't have had these problems to begin with.

[rage2]

So do we get our tax increase back, or will they find other creative ways to spend $520m of our tax dollars?

For those that don't remember...

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...hike-1.2442840

[kertejud2]

Originally posted by rage2
So do we get our tax increase back, or will they find other creative ways to spend $520m of our tax dollars?

For those that don't remember...

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...hike-1.2442840

Well with this federal government money being added to this $520M originally pledged to the SETWAY, the project still needs $2.5B to reach completion. So, no, you don't get the tax increase back.

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by realazy
From comments on the link, it looks like it'll be low floor LRTs. From google, it looks like it wouldn't need separate lanes, much like Toronto.


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If it's like that, it's just basically a really long bus...

Well I was wondering why the stations are so close, then I see they are streetcars. That means its going to be 50km at best and crashes like every other day at intersections by idiotic drivers.

[kertejud2]

High floor trains aren't really a thing anymore for light rail systems unless you are forced to tie into current high-floor networks (i.e. the West LRT). The technology on low-floors has gotten much better and their advantages are significant when you might need to tie into current streets. 36th St NE would be significantly better if low-floor was a viable option when it was built. Not good mind you, just better.


The SE portion will be separated, a most of the north portion will be separated, part of it will need to be integrated, part of it will be underground. The speeds are entirely dependent on the limitations of the line because these 'streetcars' can go as fast as any LRT nowadays (some a little faster, others a little slower). For example the Bombardier Flexity and Alstom Citadis trams can go up to 100km/h depending on the model, faster than the current LRT trains top speeds. DIstance between stops and what part of the line they are on will determine the speed.


To twist the dagger a bit, there will be a bike path incorporated into the SE portion ROW.

[killramos]

So the question I have is if these low floor trains are in the middle of the street how does that work when people want to get on an off them? Do you just dump people in the middle of the road (where the other cars sharing the road with the train are)?

I completely agree that if these things use a traffic lane then what's the difference between this and a bus? Cheaper op costs maybe but I highly doubt that justifies billions in capital spending. Also trains are worse for traffic than a bus because they accelerate and decelerate slower. The way people cut in and out of traffic in calgary one of these trains will rear end someone daily. Also in the event of a break down or a collision it's a million times easier to get a bus out of the way than a train.

At least if this was 100% underground there would be some tangible benefits to doing this over buses. I just don't see them the way this is.

[kertejud2]

Originally posted by killramos
So the question I have is if these low floor trains are in the middle of the street how does that work when people want to get on an off them? Do you just dump people in the middle of the road (where the other cars sharing the road with the train are)?

I completely agree that if these things use a traffic lane then what's the difference between this and a bus? Cheaper op costs maybe but I highly doubt that justifies billions in capital spending. Also trains are worse for traffic than a bus because they accelerate and decelerate slower. The way people cut in and out of traffic in calgary one of these trains will rear end someone daily. Also in the event of a break down or a collision it's a million times easier to get a bus out of the way than a train.

You build stations for them. Just like any other train.

An example from Paris


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And a couple from Melbourne


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It's important to note that they aren't sharing a lane with any cars. The part that is integrated with Centre Street will be a dedicated train line (as opposed to a separated, dedicated train line for the SE leg of the Green Line). This is what makes it better than a bus: the train doesn't wait in traffic and has the right-of-way.


These move faster, carry more people more efficiently, have a perceived greater value than buses which people respond to, free up resources to be used elsewhere (creation of a new BRT route) etc.

For a decent visual of the SE leg as the North leg has been on the backburner of this project:

At least if this was 100% underground there would be some tangible benefits to doing this over buses. I just don't see them the way this is.

Underground also adds a cost of $200M-$1B per kilometre.

[Xtrema]

So I guess Center St will turn into a mini version of 36st N.E.?

[J-D]

Originally posted by Xtrema
So I guess Center St will turn into a mini version of 36st N.E.?

I don't think any final designs are out but there's no way they could pull off anything half as bad as 36ST NE without trying.

[Xtrema]

Originally posted by J-D


I don't think any final designs are out but there's no way they could pull off anything half as bad as 36ST NE without trying.

I just can't see them pull it off unless they remove all left turns except major roadways like 16th/McKnight/64th etc.

[max_boost]

I'm a hater. They will fuck it up somehow lol

[Black Gts]

How does 52nd over stoney not end up exactly like 36th St? It's already 98%the same intersection now we get a train also.

[speedog]

Originally posted by Xtrema
So I guess Center St will turn into a mini version of 36st N.E.?

And you link to a picture of the south LRT at 58th Avenue down by Chinoook?

[88jbody]

IMO edmonton route would be the better. if your going to remove lanes center street is so direct a route to downtown you would be better loosing the lanes on edmonton trail. maybe even part of the route over along the train tracks in the deerfoot coridor for part of it and that would give room for park and rides that actually have a reasonable amount of parking.

[kertejud2]

More info on the Green Line options:

http://www.lrtonthegreen.ca/about-the-green-line/

The early part past the river to 16th is the real thorn right now because the best option is more than a little more expensive than the other options. Beyond that it is less contentious and problematic because Centre Street is able to handle the LRVs better beyond 16th and even moreso beyond McKnight.

[speedog]

Originally posted by 88jbody
IMO edmonton route would be the better. if your going to remove lanes center street is so direct a route to downtown you would be better loosing the lanes on edmonton trail. maybe even part of the route over along the train tracks in the deerfoot coridor for part of it and that would give room for park and rides that actually have a reasonable amount of parking.

The Edmonton Trail and/or Deerfoot Trail options have been off the books for a while now. Centre Street is where it will go with the only question of how it get out of downtown - personally, I'd like to see it underground to somewhere just south of McKnight but that won't happen. Centre Street is the most central to most of the users south of 64th and park'n'rides aren't probably part of the equation south of Beddington.