Consumer Reports problems per 100 vehicles

[googe]

Numbers are waaaay off base compared to JD Power's study.

MY2000

Acura 21
Toyota 25
Lexus 25
Honda 32
Mazda 34
Subaru 36
Saab 37
Nissan 40
Mitsubishi 42
Lincoln 47
Buick 49
Hyundai 53
BMW 54
AVERAGE MODEL 55

Chrysler 56
Ford 56
Mercury 57
Plymouth 57
Dodge 59
Audi 64
Oldsmobile 67
Pontiac 68
Jeep 68
Chevrolet 69
Volvo 70
Saturn 70
GMC 72
Mercedes-Benz 73
Volkswagen 74
Cadillac 82





The table above shows the average number of problems reported for 29 nameplates, or makes, of cars. (We include only those makes for which we have sufficient data on at least two models.) Most of the 10 best were Japanese, led by Acura. Some luxury-auto makers, such as Cadillac and Mercedes-Benz, were among the worst.

Within those 29 makes, the best of 2000 were the Acura RL, Honda CR-V, Mazda MX-5 Miata, Lexus ES300, Honda Civic, and Toyota Camry--all with fewer than 18 problems per 100. Worst: the Chevrolet Corvette; Ford Focus; Mercedes-Benz M-Class; Volkswagen Golf, Jetta, and New Beetle; and Chevrolet Astro/GMC Safari--all with more than 90 problems per 100 vehicles.

[DSM Power]

Consumer reports also once stated that most people would rather drive a minivan than a sports car.

[rage2]

Originally posted by DSM Power
Consumer reports also once stated that most people would rather drive a minivan than a sports car.

Most people do. Almost everyone at work doesn't understand how I can drive a 2 seater everyday.

That report looks about right.

[max_boost]

Driving a minivan is very comfortable I drove a 95 Windstar for many winters when my cars were being stored during the cold months.

[C4S]

That is about right that
Mercedes-Benz,Volkswagen,Cadillac,Volvo at the bottom, that is what we expect, however, Hyundai, mazda,Saab, They are about average ? they are the brands that we heard most complains at all !


And .. where is Jag ? too low to be listed ?

Anyway, Congraduation to Honda/Toyota !

[Hakkola]

Stupid ML class... I'm surprised to see Volvo at the bottom, I'll blame that one on Ford.

[Wildcat]

yeah chevy! lol

[T5_X]

Originally posted by Hakkola
Stupid ML class... I'm surprised to see Volvo at the bottom, I'll blame that one on Ford.

I'm not.

These reports do not discern the type of thing that goes wrong with vehicles. We all know that lots of euro cars have little annoying problems. In that report, a broken door handle carries as much weight as a blown head gasket. Hell, VW rates second lowest, though I don't think anyone in thier right mind would classify a TDi as unreliable.

As far as I'm concerned, reliability reports are useless until the cars start to show some age, then you start to see which vehicles stand up to real mechanical failiures.

[googe]

Originally posted by T5_X


I'm not.

These reports do not discern the type of thing that goes wrong with vehicles. We all know that lots of euro cars have little annoying problems. In that report, a broken door handle carries as much weight as a blown head gasket. Hell, VW rates second lowest, though I don't think anyone in thier right mind would classify a TDi as unreliable.

As far as I'm concerned, reliability reports are useless until the cars start to show some age, then you start to see which vehicles stand up to real mechanical failiures.

3.5ish years is some age isnt it? These are problems with model year 2000 vehicles

[syeve]

Originally posted by T5_X


Hell, VW rates second lowest, though I don't think anyone in thier right mind would classify a TDi as unreliable.

As far as I'm concerned, reliability reports are useless until the cars start to show some age, then you start to see which vehicles stand up to real mechanical failiures.

They are not calling the TDi unreliable, they are just stating how many problems per 100 vehicles VW had, not just the one model.

And to argue that the "European" car had jsut little annoying things wrong with them is a stretch if you ask me.

[T5_X]

Originally posted by googe


3.5ish years is some age isnt it? These are problems with model year 2000 vehicles

Do you expect suspension components, trannies, engines etc to go within 3.5 years? Which car is more unreliable? One that needs all new new brake calipers after 4 years, or one that needs new glovebox lightbulbs? According to consumer reports, they have the same reliability because one thing went wrong on both cars.

They are not calling the TDi unreliable, they are just stating how many problems per 100 vehicles VW had, not just the one model.

Well the end caption listed the golf and jetta both as having over 90 problems/100 vehicles, both TDi models fit into these. The graph even says "reliability" which is a stretch of a statement. Obviously, the average person is going to see this as a bold statement to stay away from VWs because they will break down if you buy one, which is completely ridiculous.

And to argue that the "European" car had jsut little annoying things wrong with them is a stretch if you ask me.

I did not say they "just" had little annoying problems. You take a risk of a big problem no matter what brand you buy. Saying that euros tend to have more little problems is a big generalization, but the trend seems to be there, especially in new Volvos and VWs

[syeve]

Originally posted by T5_X


Well the end caption listed the golf and jetta both as having over 90 problems/100 vehicles, both TDi models fit into these.

oh, didnt read that part.

[YCB]

does anyone have the other picture? is was like a side bar graph? about reliability?

[Ducati]

Congrats to SAAB - does anybody remember the "Saab Stories" from the seventies and eighties? I would rather have a Saab than a Volvo at this juncture.

Congrats to HYUNDAI. Does anyone here remember the Pony? I would recommend the Accent GSi to someone who wanted a new car for cheap, and wasnt into tuning; just needed a ride. Leasing is a problem with them due to low residual values...but leasing is a whole other 100 miles. Another thread, perhaps.

VW dissapoints me, Having had VW Bugs all throughout University, I loved them. My Brother in law has a VR6 Passat. Its a Peice of Shit. A Very NICE peice of shit, though. I an pleased to see that VW is going to put the TDI into them. I know there are a lot of VW afficionados on this forum...but...Sorry...fast as it is, the VR6 just is not a motor for the "long run".

Mercedes...The last good Mercedes was built in 1991. Oh no, I have pissed other people here off again. Damn, sorry. Ookay, I would not turn my nose up at one, however if I was buying new I would still go for a Saab as a viable EuroCar. What am I thinking? I will never have either.

BMW - still the Ultimate Drivers Car, no doubt about it. However BMW really stands for Bring My Wallet. They get hellishly expensive to maintain past their warranty. A Beemer with 160K on it is a money pit. You'd better really love it, because it will keep you in the poorhouse.

Jaguar...the most beautiful lemon on Earth. Jeez I hope they improve the quality, They sure are beautiful. Nothing like English leather and burlwood.

Infiniti - Thats a nice car. All Infiniti's.

Of the Americans, the guys at GM seem to have things starting to improve with their new little Eurotec 4banger.
Chryslers styling is great. I was a Mopar fanatic in the seventies, so have a soft spot for them.
Ford? So sad. Please make the GT40 affordable to people other than Saudi Sheikhs and rock superstars. And Bring Back The Cobra.

The Japs still build the best. Too bad they have no soul, though.

[?????]

Well European cars are good and all but arn't they known for being unreliable?

[fast95pony]

I would like to a report on 2003 vehicles. I think there would be some changes...

[Ducati]

Generally. ?????? you are justified in that concern.

With a few exceptions:

VW TDI's have a better track record of reliability than the gassers.
Same goes for pretty well any diesel. My Turbodiesel Benz ranks right up there with the best (in terms of low operating cost) and is easily more reliable than other reliable cars I have owned. like my erstwhile Slant 6 Valiant & VW Beetles of decades gone by. THe MBz is more cost efficient & reliable than my former Datsun 240Z, Volvo 240 and Toyota Corolla Wagon that I have owned, and loved for their durability.

I would buy an older Volvo 240 if you can find one with less than 200,000 km on it. Or the new Saab. Peugeots were reliable, but they are a nightmare for parts availability in North America. Older Jetta's can be a good buy if you find one that has been looked after. If neglected, they deteriorated rapidly - but so did older Datsuns, Toyota's, Mazda's and Subaru's.

My bitch about European cars is that they make exceptionally entertaining cars to drive, but they demand superhuman maintenance efforts and parts/service costs are exorbitant. Dealership experiences can be frustrating - and I don't know why. It's not like they were built by gnomes in the Black Forest, and need wizards to mumble incantations over them.

[Toms-Celica]

"Mercedes-Benz 73"

[CalgaryB5]

Originally posted by Ducati
My Brother in law has a VR6 Passat. Its a Peice of Shit. A Very NICE peice of shit, though.

Cannot agree more Yo! Own one before back in 93. Now got a 00 Jetta Auto TDI with some rocket mods.

[Ducati]

The next Big Thing will be high performance Diesels and fast gas or diesel electric hybrids. And they will be reliable.

However, I will miss the music of pistons at 7000 RPM.