What to do in Malaysia/Singapore?

[cdnsir]

So I originally wanted to go to Japan for a week, then off to HK for spent another. But due to the recent unfortunate events, I had to cancel my Japan trip on very short notice.

I'm planning on replacing my 7 days in Japan with a trip to SE Asia (probably Singapore/Malaysia) instead. I don't know much about these countries, and I only have a few days to decide as my flight to Hong Kong is scheduled for Mar 30th. Do you guys have any suggestions of what to do there? Or are there any other good destinations that's only a couple of hours away from HK?

[BananaFob]

Depends what part of Malaysia.

Lot's to do and eat in Kuala Lumpur, go see the Petronas Towers, Sepang.

If you're planning on going to East Malaysia (I'm from there) then check out Kota Kinabalu. Great resort area, tallest mountain in SE asia nearby as well and you do a guided tour and climb it. It's pretty grueling but worth it. Just to the south is Sipadan which is one of the world's top 5 diving locations.

Singapore is great for shopping, especially down Orchard Road. Sentosa Island is a pretty popular tourist spot, they just opened up the first casinos ever there too. It gets kinda boring past the shopping though.

[Skyline_Addict]

eat cheap and awesome food.

[cdnsir]

Sounds like I should spend most of my time in Malaysia and only a couple of days max in Singapore. Shopping is nice, but I do prefer to go sightseeing. Are most parts of Malay generally pretty safe (traveling with gf..), and hows the transportation there like there? Should I rent a car or is the transport system pretty good to go from city to city? And most importantly, can I get by with speaking English to locals?

I see there's an 8hr train ride from KL to Singapore, I suppose an overnite train to and from would be a good choice. Supposed to be a Universal Studios in Singapore, that seems interesting.

[KLCC]

Universal studio in singapore is small, it has roughly about 10 main themes...you can probably finish it within a day. You should try visit Marina bay hotel though (it looks like a cruise ship that's sitting ontop of 3 apt buildings)

[n1zm0]

Originally posted by BananaFob
Depends what part of Malaysia.

If you're planning on going to East Malaysia (I'm from there) then check out Kota Kinabalu. Great resort area, tallest mountain in SE asia nearby as well and you do a guided tour and climb it. It's pretty grueling but worth it. Just to the south is Sipadan which is one of the world's top 5 diving locations.

for both, my parents are both from East M'sia and it's almost a 'world away' from west m'sia, if you goto KK (kota kinabalu), other than the city center, the closest most tourist friendly island would be Pulau gaya, take a daytrip there, if you have time Pulau Tiga where they hosted the first Survivor TV series.

like Banana said if you are into hiking do Mt Kinabalu, i did it when i was 15, only made it to 11000ft cabin, just couldnt hack it anymore, but the views all the way up are amazing.

then again if you have time, Sipadan, my aunt used to have a resort there but the government closed it as a national park now - no overnight stays either, but if you get a chance to do snorkeling or scuba, there is a 2000ft drop with all the stuff you see in national geographic, insane. yes exactly like this, minus the resort on stilts now:

» Click image for larger version


West M'sia, KL specifically is straight up a modern asian metro for the most part - TONS of malls and massive ones too , i heard from my cousins that all the fake stuff @ Jalan Petaling was being shut down (fake LV, rolex,Tag heuer, coach, soccer jerseys etc) but if youre not into that then whatever., but the night market still stands, if theres one thing you should know about S'pore and M'sia is famous for is the Hawker stalls and food gain 10 pounds everytime i go back ffs.

also i got to see a track day @ Sepang with all the rich ass folks in their GTRs and Mclarens etc - just missed JGTC unfortunately, at the time as well the EVO 8 came out and they were doing public test drives on a closed part of the track, but they always have some small events if oyu check the website.

as said the petronas towers are cool, you can feel the middle bridge sway in the wind.

the clubs downtown arent bad, nothing like north american clubs tho - whole different level (sharks in glass tanks and DDR music of course) but still regular house/trance/rap/R&B type stuff around, Ampang has some of the nicest ones imo - lots of foreigners (visually apparent caucasians from UK/AUS lol), youre always in a safe place if youre around foreigners lol, cabs are cheap ass too that i can remember so get as wasted on carlsberg and tiger as you can when youre at the clubs tho - be aware of the 'ladyboy', they are like fken everywhere near the club scene *shudder*

you dont really want to take the 'Bas Mini' (like privately owned calgary transit busses ranging from a toyota hiace to a huge bus and all of them play super obnoxious pop music) but the regular official city transit busses/KL monorail (like Vancouvers LRT) are safe and super cheap (compared to here), you DO NOT want to be caught in rushhour KL traffic, worse than anything youll experience in canada x 10, driving in m'sia is hectic ( i personally enjoy it, keeps you on your toes), lots of roundabouts and massive tokyo style 4 way intersections in KL some places where the scooters go in between cars, great experience if youve never done it. always remember in m'sia (or SE asia for that matter) that cars/trucks/mopeds will NOT stop if you jay walk like here, they always have right of way it seems.

highway city to city is pretty good tho, nice highway speed limits, very smooth and lots to see (jungle and hills etc) if youre renting tho, try and get up to Genting Highlands, casino, amusement park, amazing views and a bit cooler than lowlands. train to s'pore iirc wasnt too bad, older open air train btw... for 8-10 hrs... lol

you want to do the island beach thing in west m'sia, langkawi hands down as packed as it is, still beautiful

[revelations]

Originally posted by BananaFob
Depends what part of Malaysia.

If you're planning on going to East Malaysia (I'm from there) then check out Kota Kinabalu. Great resort area, tallest mountain in SE asia nearby as well and you do a guided tour and climb it. It's pretty grueling but worth it. Just to the south is Sipadan which is one of the world's top 5 diving locations.

I'm going to be spending a couple of days in KK (after work is done) .... any other recommendations as far as activities? I wont have access to my own vehiucle but im sure taxies go everywhere (and tour groups).

I'm big into outdoors, nature and SCUBA so it looks like a great area otherwise. I'm not so much on partying every night (although once would be cool).

[BananaFob]

Originally posted by revelations


I'm going to be spending a couple of days in KK (after work is done) .... any other recommendations as far as activities? I wont have access to my own vehiucle but im sure taxies go everywhere (and tour groups).

I'm big into outdoors, nature and SCUBA so it looks like a great area otherwise. I'm not so much on partying every night (although once would be cool).

Go out to some of the smaller islands that are just out of town. Lots of watersports. If you like taking jungle treks etc, might want to drive up towards Sandakan to the north.

[LLLimit]

Originally posted by revelations


I'm going to be spending a couple of days in KK (after work is done) .... any other recommendations as far as activities? I wont have access to my own vehiucle but im sure taxies go everywhere (and tour groups).

I'm big into outdoors, nature and SCUBA so it looks like a great area otherwise. I'm not so much on partying every night (although once would be cool).

Nice, a bunch of KK'ers here. I'll be headed home in July.

It might be a bit tough to find english speakers there, unless you're around the hotel/hostel areas. Theres plenty of tour companies around and in my experience, only half are of their tour guides have conversational english. The native Malaysians have better english than the Chinese folks here, who dominate economically.

I spend most of my time at Sutera Harbour & Luyang in the day, and Shenigans at night. Still live music in there? It was all Filipino bands the last time I went.

For an outdoors person, hit up Mt.Kinabalu and the national park. To put it in perspective, the mountain is taller than Mt.Fuji in Japan. Theres a hotsprings around the area too.
Of course the islands are there, Bring bread to feed the fish, and they'll swarm you.

[n1zm0]

Originally posted by BananaFob
If you like taking jungle treks etc, might want to drive up towards Sandakan to the north.

Sukau would be a good place if you end up going all the way up to Sandakan as well.

Originally posted by LLLimit
and Shenigans at night. Still live music in there? It was all Filipino bands the last time I went.

last time i was there, it was ALL filipino bands - even at that 'BED' club or w/e, the chicks sing really well tho.

[LLLimit]

It's funny, I roamed around Roxas Blvd in Manila for a few days and found the live filipino bands in KK to be better.

I remember I went white water rafting on the Padas River.
Got picked up early morning at Sutera Harbour and followed an agenda similar to this one:
http://www.mmadventure.com/kinabalu/wwr-padas.htm

My raft had a cocky/lazy/chubby HongKonger who wanted challenging rapids but didn't do any paddling at all. The other boats had middle aged Japanese folks who didn't want rapids. I don't know which is worse.

The drive down to Beaufort was on a narrow highway.
I got thrown into the water and struggled to climb back.
On the train ride back, a rock fell from the cliff above and landed on the the rails. The train hit it and knocked the engine off the rails, almost tipping it into the river below. Could have died a few times that day.

[cdnsir]

Originally posted by n1zm0

...

Sipadan, my aunt used to have a resort there but the government closed it as a national park now - no overnight stays either, but if you get a chance to do snorkeling or scuba, there is a 2000ft drop with all the stuff you see in national geographic, insane. yes exactly like this, minus the resort on stilts now:

» Click image for larger version

you want to do the island beach thing in west m'sia, langkawi hands down as packed as it is, still beautiful
...

Thanks for all the suggestions n1zm0! You should head back and open up a tour guide company for us foreigners!

I found a package for 3 days to stay dt KL. Which means I have one extra day to spend in west Malaysia, leaving 3 days leftover for Singapore. I'll googled what Hawker Stalls all, and looks like I'll definetly be hitting up those for all my meals.

For the 3 days, any good daytrip locations. I think I'll spend around the KL core, another day for visiting Melaka. And yo, those beachhouses looks freaking amazing. If I want to stay close to KL, is Langawai the only place where I can stay a night at one of those resorts?

[eblend]

Been to both places and would still would to Japan even with the current situation. In my opinion, Japan is actually a much better place further down from Tokyo, I have been to Tokyo 3 times in the last 4 years, and have no interest in going back, but further down there is no threat and alot more calm and relaxing Japan.

In Singapore the only things I enjoyed were Sentosa Island and the walk along the river, other than that didn't find too much interesting (I am not into shopping).

Malaysia, I haven't been in too many places, but where I have been was interesting, but nothing terribly exciting.

[revelations]

Originally posted by n1zm0
then again if you have time, Sipadan, my aunt used to have a resort there but the government closed it as a national park now - no overnight stays either, but if you get a chance to do snorkeling or scuba, there is a 2000ft drop with all the stuff you see in national geographic, insane. yes exactly like this, minus the resort on stilts now:

Just read on the Governments travel advisory website:

OFFICIAL WARNING: Foreign Affairs and International Trade Canada advises against non-essential travel to the islands off the east coast of Sabah, including Sipadan and Langkayan islands where the kidnapping of foreigners has occurred in the past. Malaysian authorities have increased security in the region in response to past incidents. Credible reports indicate that there continues to be a high risk of kidnappings and violence targeting foreigners.

Now they tend to be overly cautious, one kidnap 3 years ago might mean that you are at risk. Wonder if there is any more information about this.

[n1zm0]

edit: ^ YES! totally true, my aunt's resort when it still around was hit by those southern filipino pirates (abu sayyef assholes mostly) a couple times, once they took the whole island hostage with all the other resorts - malaysian navy came, small gun battle killed most of them, other times they will just come at night and take engines, they run around with literally 8-10 boat engines on their dingy's, insanely fast, i remember when i was there, you could stand on the jetty with binocs or telescope and watch the malaysian navy do patrols around the island, i mean huge corvette class stuff with missiles and guns (for extreme intimidation?), occasionally low flying airforce turbo props in the distance, the navy there supposedly has made it the safest place in the celebes sea, everything else is pirates lol

Originally posted by cdnsir
Thanks for all the suggestions n1zm0! You should head back and open up a tour guide company for us foreigners!

my mom's sister is heavy into the tourist industry/resorts etc specifically in east M'sia, not so much west m'sia but we have lots of relatives and family friends there, mom has a place in Penang she rents to those baller Japanese salarymen, so yeah i've been exposed to alot in the short times i visit. as much as id love to do that tho, i still like Calgary and 4 seasons alot lol, the heat - ugh, you know you're canadian when...

Originally posted by cdnsir
I'll googled what Hawker Stalls all, and looks like I'll definetly be hitting up those for all my meals.

the key thing about the stalls is to try everything in very small moderation imo - i make that mistake everytime i go back, you see the guy frying noodles and you are dead set on a plate of those because of the glorious smell - bad idea, you'll be bloated before you know it because down the way - there's this guy fanning the flames to a open fire bbq with satay on it - more glorious smell and it continues on and on and on down the street, even worse is that for a canadian or north american, a plate of fried noodles you get in chinatown here say ~$12 is only about ~$3-4 CDN, the RM is about 3:1 to CDN $ usually as a quick reference when youre buying stuff.

Originally posted by cdnsir
For the 3 days, any good daytrip locations. I think I'll spend around the KL core, another day for visiting Melaka. And yo, those beachhouses looks freaking amazing. If I want to stay close to KL, is Langawai the only place where I can stay a night at one of those resorts?

Like i said KLCC has a few megamalls, if you're feeling rich Suria, Sunway Pyramid and a bunch in Bukit Bintang pretty close to e/o.

Twin towers obviously

Bunch of mosques (national mosque), hindu and chinese temples around the city that are worth looking at.

Sepang F1 circuit is near the intl airport so kind of far once you're already in downtown KL

Chinatown and Petaling Street, ask the cab to take you to one of the beginning parts of Petaling street (north or south) first, peruse and walk down it then walk around chinatown, but if youre a blantantly obvious tourist, they will just drop you off at one end anyways.

Merdeka square (freedom/independance square) has a really old extravagantly sculptured building i forgot what its called, sultan something, but its in Supercop with jackie chan, lights up at night, really cool.

Lake gardens, kind of like a really nice elaborate pond with fountains, idk i was 14 when i went to that place.

Central market has all your souveniers and stuff, according to the website they run a free tour @ 10:30am every morning too http://centralmarket.com.my/?p=2603

A place i remember going everytime we're in west m'sia is Batu caves, a crazy ass hindu temple in a cave on the side of a mountain, theres hundreds of stairs and you want to just say fk it on a hot day @ 12 pm when the sun is burning a hole in your back, but once you get up there - mind blown - crazy Hindu sculptures of all their gods and the cave itself is massive, also last time i was there, they were building a huge statue in front but it was only half done, i think its finished now about 42 meters tall. the hindu's see various animals as holy so there are TONS of monkeys everywhere like on top of the buildings on the steps to the cave *side note - not the cute natn'l geo kind and not as friendly as you think, they've become so used to humans, they will try to steal your stuff if you get too close, sad too because some tourists give them cigs, so naturally they are addicted and will raid you if they see youre smoking lol, not unlike humans at all...) it was a really short drive iirc from KLCC

I was going to say, malacca is close and especially worth visiting, didnt know your itinerary tho, im sure youve read up on the city, but its amazing, its overflowing with history, something about the chinese used to use it for a military port in the 1400s, then the most visual thing you will see is the dutch and portuguese influences on almost everything, some places the food is mish-mashed with malaysian = epic extra exotic mealtime, you keep forgetting youre in S.E asia cause the buildings are waaaaay different, european 16-17th century cobblestone streets, architechture of some of the forts,houses and castles are crazy - bring lots of batteries and memory for your digicam! there are lots of catholic churches in the city because of the euro occupations, i specifically remember being in some fort/castle thing and there is supposedly the body or body part of some important Saint or king buried in this tomb there. Also when you walk certain areas in Malacca, you'll smell extreme whiffs of belacan (shrimp paste) being made, might be a bit much if youre not used to it, they make some of the best in the whole of m'sia tho.

KLCC itself is landlocked and i thought the closest part to the water - Klang (if you goto Klang, ask the cabbie to bring you to the best bak kut teh shop ), isn't a very nice beach - really rocky or industrial port stuff. Closest white sand type stuff to KL is Port Dickson i think which is a couple hrs away, my aunt compared it to what we use Banff as when she was here, getaway for Calgary folk, idk if they have those stilts houses, but in East M'sia, they are ALL over the coastline.

I haven't been back to M'sia in about 3-4 years so hopefully most info is still current. and keep in mind all these sound great and close but KL rush hour, again i warn you! lol

i've only been to S'pore twice and only remember that there were Mercedes E-classes everywhere and everything was wayyyy cleaner overall than anyplace i've been to in north america... thats about it lol

[BananaFob]

Originally posted by n1zm0
edit: ^ YES! totally true, my aunt's resort when it still around was hit by those southern filipino pirates (abu sayyef assholes mostly) a couple times, once they took the whole island hostage with all the other resorts - malaysian navy came, small gun battle killed most of them, other times they will just come at night and take engines, they run around with literally 8-10 boat engines on their dingy's, insanely fast, i remember when i was there, you could stand on the jetty with binocs or telescope and watch the malaysian navy do patrols around the island, i mean huge corvette class stuff with missiles and guns (for extreme intimidation?), occasionally low flying airforce turbo props in the distance, the navy there supposedly has made it the safest place in the celebes sea, everything else is pirates lol



my mom's sister is heavy into the tourist industry/resorts etc specifically in east M'sia, not so much west m'sia but we have lots of relatives and family friends there, mom has a place in Penang she rents to those baller Japanese salarymen, so yeah i've been exposed to alot in the short times i visit. as much as id love to do that tho, i still like Calgary and 4 seasons alot lol, the heat - ugh, you know you're canadian when...



the key thing about the stalls is to try everything in very small moderation imo - i make that mistake everytime i go back, you see the guy frying noodles and you are dead set on a plate of those because of the glorious smell - bad idea, you'll be bloated before you know it because down the way - there's this guy fanning the flames to a open fire bbq with satay on it - more glorious smell and it continues on and on and on down the street, even worse is that for a canadian or north american, a plate of fried noodles you get in chinatown here say ~$12 is only about ~$3-4 CDN, the RM is about 3:1 to CDN $ usually as a quick reference when youre buying stuff.



Like i said KLCC has a few megamalls, if you're feeling rich Suria, Sunway Pyramid and a bunch in Bukit Bintang pretty close to e/o.

Twin towers obviously

Bunch of mosques (national mosque), hindu and chinese temples around the city that are worth looking at.

Sepang F1 circuit is near the intl airport so kind of far once you're already in downtown KL

Chinatown and Petaling Street, ask the cab to take you to one of the beginning parts of Petaling street (north or south) first, peruse and walk down it then walk around chinatown, but if youre a blantantly obvious tourist, they will just drop you off at one end anyways.

Merdeka square (freedom/independance square) has a really old extravagantly sculptured building i forgot what its called, sultan something, but its in Supercop with jackie chan, lights up at night, really cool.

Lake gardens, kind of like a really nice elaborate pond with fountains, idk i was 14 when i went to that place.

Central market has all your souveniers and stuff, according to the website they run a free tour @ 10:30am every morning too http://centralmarket.com.my/?p=2603

A place i remember going everytime we're in west m'sia is Batu caves, a crazy ass hindu temple in a cave on the side of a mountain, theres hundreds of stairs and you want to just say fk it on a hot day @ 12 pm when the sun is burning a hole in your back, but once you get up there - mind blown - crazy Hindu sculptures of all their gods and the cave itself is massive, also last time i was there, they were building a huge statue in front but it was only half done, i think its finished now about 42 meters tall. the hindu's see various animals as holy so there are TONS of monkeys everywhere like on top of the buildings on the steps to the cave *side note - not the cute natn'l geo kind and not as friendly as you think, they've become so used to humans, they will try to steal your stuff if you get too close, sad too because some tourists give them cigs, so naturally they are addicted and will raid you if they see youre smoking lol, not unlike humans at all...) it was a really short drive iirc from KLCC

I was going to say, malacca is close and especially worth visiting, didnt know your itinerary tho, im sure youve read up on the city, but its amazing, its overflowing with history, something about the chinese used to use it for a military port in the 1400s, then the most visual thing you will see is the dutch and portuguese influences on almost everything, some places the food is mish-mashed with malaysian = epic extra exotic mealtime, you keep forgetting youre in S.E asia cause the buildings are waaaaay different, european 16-17th century cobblestone streets, architechture of some of the forts,houses and castles are crazy - bring lots of batteries and memory for your digicam! there are lots of catholic churches in the city because of the euro occupations, i specifically remember being in some fort/castle thing and there is supposedly the body or body part of some important Saint or king buried in this tomb there. Also when you walk certain areas in Malacca, you'll smell extreme whiffs of belacan (shrimp paste) being made, might be a bit much if youre not used to it, they make some of the best in the whole of m'sia tho.

KLCC itself is landlocked and i thought the closest part to the water - Klang (if you goto Klang, ask the cabbie to bring you to the best bak kut teh shop ), isn't a very nice beach - really rocky or industrial port stuff. Closest white sand type stuff to KL is Port Dickson i think which is a couple hrs away, my aunt compared it to what we use Banff as when she was here, getaway for Calgary folk, idk if they have those stilts houses, but in East M'sia, they are ALL over the coastline.

I haven't been back to M'sia in about 3-4 years so hopefully most info is still current. and keep in mind all these sound great and close but KL rush hour, again i warn you! lol

i've only been to S'pore twice and only remember that there were Mercedes E-classes everywhere and everything was wayyyy cleaner overall than anyplace i've been to in north america... thats about it lol

Yeah, pretty accurate.

If you haven't been to East Malaysia, specifically KK in the past few years, you'll be shocked at some of the changes. I was there last year and somehow it's now the most expensive city in Malaysia due to the tourism boom there. Lots of development there.

Negatively speaking, there a lot more boat jumpers there nowadays as the Malaysian government seems to be willing to hand out citizenship to the Muslim Filipino "refugees."

[n1zm0]

^ yeah i havent been back to m'sia period in 3-4 years, i remember the last time i went compared couple years before that, lots more tourists, like these german tourists at the fish head soup shop in Damai plaza going all out with the slurping and everything, my cousin kept saying 'yeah they rent cars now and go out exploring to find all the good places, totally normal'

i remember going back when i was about 14, i had just gotten my I.C, my closest cousin didnt have a car so we took the bus to centerpoint, the bus got stopped by government officials, boarded the bus and was checking ICs, 2 guys in the front got taken off and never came back lol, my cousin whispers to me " illegal filipino or indonesians, kind of like your mexican problem right?" laughed soooo hard.

i heard from one cousin that this is on the rise in KK, very nice to hear, make use of those dilapidated kampung junker toyotas lol:


» Click image for larger version



edit:
for anyone who misses malaysian food :

http://kkfood.blog.com/

[KLCC]

Originally posted by n1zm0
^ yeah i havent been back to m'sia period in 3-4 years, i remember the last time i went compared couple years before that, lots more tourists, like these german tourists at the fish head soup shop in Damai plaza going all out with the slurping and everything, my cousin kept saying 'yeah they rent cars now and go out exploring to find all the good places, totally normal'

i remember going back when i was about 14, i had just gotten my I.C, my closest cousin didnt have a car so we took the bus to centerpoint, the bus got stopped by government officials, boarded the bus and was checking ICs, 2 guys in the front got taken off and never came back lol, my cousin whispers to me " illegal filipino or indonesians, kind of like your mexican problem right?" laughed soooo hard.

i heard from one cousin that this is on the rise in KK, very nice to hear, make use of those dilapidated kampung junker toyotas lol:


» Click image for larger version



edit:
for anyone who misses malaysian food :

http://kkfood.blog.com/

Awesome...some I haven't tried yet, bookmarked for next return trip.

[BananaFob]

Goddamn. You just made me so hungry

[AudiPWR]

I lived in Singapore for a half a year to complete my degree at NSU.
Singapore is an amazing place with lots to do.
If you have the money MAKE SURE TO STAY IN MARINA BAY SANDS!!! I can't emphasize that enough.
It is a casino resort with a big boat across 3 towers with an infinity pool you can swim on at the roof. Expect to spend about $300 for a room and another $200 for drinks and food there.
Go on the Singapore flyer and see the city if you cant get to the Sky park at marina bay sands.
The Singapore Zoo, Singapore Night Safari, and Singapore Bird park are all great placed to spend time in singapore their facilites are extremely nice.
Go have a Singapore Sling at Raffles hotel (Where it was invented)

30 Sing dollars per drink though.
Go down to Clarke Quay and visit some night clubs. Zoosk is pretty cool and there are a bunch of others down there.
Go to Little India, little chinatown, and remember to buy an MRT card!

The MRT Is the transit system they have and it is AMAZING.. You can get anywhere in the city simply with this card. Their are some great places to eat at the mall where you gain access to sentosa Island, my favorite was a Japanese BBQ house that grilled everything on skewers..

A trip to Sentosa Island is fun, Universal Studios is there along with some nice man made beaches and other various activites.

I had alot of fun sin Singapore, and don't see why people are recommending you only stay a few days. The people are great, the food is great(if you find it), and everything is really clean. I just found it to be pricey for SE Asia ( Some bars usually asking $10SNGD for a beer)

Enjoy your time.. feel free to ask anymore questions as I'm sure I have a better idea then most people on this forum on what it is like.