1992 Mercury Sable w/15x7 American Racing Avenger wheels

[archcommus]

I recently got 15x7 American Racing Avenger wheels put on my 1992 Mercury Sable. Although the stock wheel for that car is 15x6, these were listed to fit, and AR told me they've been successful with many 92 Sables in the past. I bought them at Pep Boys, and they did not specify a specific tire size for them. Despite all this, they are a bit too wide. I had them put on at Midas, who put spacers in the springs just as a temporary fix. I'm bringing it back to Pep Boys, where I bought the wheels, this Friday or Saturday to get hub centric rings put on, since they didn't give them to me with the wheels for some reason. But we still have to figure out why these rims are too wide when they shouldn't be, and how to fix it. The only causes I can think of is an aftermarket OEM rear strut that is longer than stock, incorrect tire size, or improper backspacing on the wheel. What other causes are there? Do you think all we'll need to do to fix it is bend the fender lip up? Or might that not be enough? Thanks.

Pic of car: http://rgm700.home.comcast.net/car.jpg

Pic of wheel (currently with spacers in): http://rgm700.home.comcast.net/closeup.JPG

[CRX-R]

Original Post Removed. (Please read the Forum Rules and Terms of Use before posting again, or risk getting banned).

[archcommus]

Huh? I imagine that's some kind of joke about the cheapness of the wheels and/or car.

[CRX-R]

Original Post Removed. (Please read the Forum Rules and Terms of Use before posting again, or risk getting banned).

[archcommus]

Well, the wheels cost over a grand. Now, I'd never spend that much of my own money for that, but it was Christmas, a new car was out of our budget, so my dad wanted to get something that would look good on the car I have now. So, the fact that it was a Christmas gift sort of justifies the cost. I wouldn't have spent that on those any other time, but now that they're on it, I really don't think it looks bad. In fact I think it looks good. Sure looks better than stock wheels. You don't agree?

Well anyway, could you help answer my question instead of just dissing the car?

[illeagle]

what's your question?

Bottoming out?
tires to wide?
Car sits too low?

[CRX-R]

Originally posted by archcommus
AR told me they've been successful with many 92 Sables in the past.

So alot of people are doing this???
Anyway, you could bend out your fender, but that's a pretty 'backyard' fix. I would have to say that it's either the wrong tire size.. Or maybe there was just an error, the rims just might not work with your car. Get the 6's

[archcommus]

Check my first post. They're a tad too wide. See the rear of the car? How the body is flat there and not rounded over the wheels like the front? Well, the part of the tire that's hidden is the part that's too close (the sidewall of the tire). Right now the body is above the tires, because of the spacers, but that's just a temporary fix. If the spacers were removed, and the car dropped a couple inches like normal, the inside of the body there would be rubbing, or at least very close to rubbing, the sidewall of the tire. The question here is WHY this is happening, when the wheels are listed to fit. OEM strut? Incorrect tire size? Incorrect wheel backspacing? I have no idea. I still need to get the hub centric rings put on, but that wouldn't help this problem, that's just something else I need to get done. And the other issue is, of course, how to fix it. We'll probably end up bending the fender up, I just hope that's enough.

[archcommus]

Well, I would just exchange them for 15x6 wheels, but the problem is, if these 15x7s are listed to fit, then Pep Boys won't take them back for free. The only way they would do that would be if they actually made a mistake. A different tire size wouldn't change the width at all, it'd only change the height. Maybe AR intended for these wheels to be put on with tires with thinner side walls (same 7" width, though), so that it's underneath the body in the first place? If Pep Boys tells me that I need a thinner tire when I take it back, I'll simply complain that we weren't instructed of that when we bought them.

We weren't really planning on bending OUT the fender, just bending UP the lip you can see in that second pic.

[cocoabrova]

It sounds like the 7" rim width isn't the major problem, it's the offset of THOSE 15 x 7 rims.....Bolt patterns can be the same for different car makes, but it's the offset that can give problems when going aftermarket. Tell PB to check what they have listed for your stock offset, then check what the AR wheels offset is.....

[archcommus]

Alright, I'll be sure to do that. Thanks. And that'd be okay, since it'd be their problem and not mine. I really hope it's not something that's my own problem, like an OEM strut, that's causing the problem, because I can't afford to dish out more cash.

If they have to order new wheels, but if they pay for installation, etc., the only bad part would be that I can't drive my car in the meantime.

[Ducati]

You say that your front end is making scary noises - clicks that sound like a CV joint going away, or wheel bearings making grinding, crunching sounds? If a wheel brearing goes, the next thing to take the strain will be the axle, and it' s destruction will soon follow. Thats probably $400 to repair. More money out the window.

Grab the tire at the top and shake it. Does it clunk even a tiny little bit? Grab it at the sides of the tire, and shake it real hard. Is it solid? Does it go Clunk Clunk, even barely perceptably? Wheel Bearings are actually not difficult to remove, repack and replace yourself. Buy a manual (Chiltons or Haynes) and borrow Dad's tools. Now read the manual then follow the instructions to the letter. Who cares how long it takes to do. Get a comfortable stool and plug in your music. Working on cars is Zen.

I like nice wheels on a car, and think that almost anything looks better than the stock radial-fin design plastic hubcaps that came on the base Sable, or the aluminun rims that Ford provided with the Sable GS. Those rims actually don't look too bad - however they are too big for the car and are exacerbating the front end wear. If you still want to run fat ter tires like that then prepare to replace wheel bearings soon, and for them to have short lives. Also get the CV joint looked at, as the strain of the larger tires will speed its demise, at the least convenient time for you. The tires will rub the sidewalls on the fender lip and start looking ragged in no time.

Fat tires, low pro's etc. are all good if the suspension is set up for them. Wheels and tires should be chosen carefully.

[James]

those tires are huge ( side wall ), i had the same problem on my passat, i had accidentally ordered the wrong size (10mm too big)...exchanged them for a 50 series and they were perfect.

[archcommus]

How do we know wheel bearings are involved? All I hear is the clicking sounds (CV joints), and mechanics have told me about the tie rod, too.

I'll try grabbing the tire today. Can you explain exactly how those fatter tires hurt the front of the car? What size tires do you think I should buy (or try to buy, heh)?

Do you think the car is worth spending money for repairs on now? And just use it until it completely dies?

Thanks for all the help.

[archcommus]

Well, I got new tires today. Pep Boys called and say my hub centric rings were in, so I brought it up there. The guy took one look and said they were 265-70-15 tires, or something like that. The important number is the 70. He said those were bigger than stock, and that's what was causing the problem. So I paid $279 to have 265-60-15 tires put on (don't hold me to that first or last number, only positive about the middle one). He left the spacers in, because he said the springs might be a little weak, and it might ride a tad low without them. Despite what others have told me, he said it's perfectly safe to leave those spacers in the springs. Is it?

I'll take a picture when I can.

[Ducati]

Re: Spacers...

Many many years ago I had a Pontiac GTO with coil springs and spacers in the springs to give me clearance for my rear tires, some huge Mickey Thompson L50 series meats that were oh-so- cool at the time. I was told the spacers were safe. Well, give an 18 year old some beers, a few hoots of cheap mexican, and a carload of guys going "giv'er" and soon the GTO is flying.
We hit railroad tracks, became airborne, and when we landed the rear springs disgorged the spacers with a loud "Poiinggg...BANG" and the ass end lurches, digs in, and over we go. Flattened an old lady's lilac bushes and spilled my beer....onto the headliner.

Hey, it was the seventies - Things were different then.

Don't get me talking about shock absorbers now, as I have a tale of drag racing a Hemi Plymouth under the influence of LSD.

[archcommus]

Well, yes, that was a long time ago. And I don't plan on being airborne in my Sable. :tongue: So hopefully I can trust the Pep Boys mechanics.

So will my wheel bearings and CV joints thank me for the smaller tires? Was this a good move?

[archcommus]

Now, I have a few questions. Right now I have 60-size tires on my car, which are STOCK size for this car. My wheels are 15x7, stock is 15x6. Right now, none of the rear tires are hidden, even though I have stock wheels and tires. I thought that the top portion of the tire was SUPPOSED to be hidden, but maybe not. You might say, well maybe the car should be lower, you should take out those spacers. Well, no, I can't really do that. The reason is because, if I took the spacers out, the back of the car would be a bit lower, and even with the new tires, it would still rub SLIGHTLY against their sides. Then, you may ask, why are these wheels listed to fit the vehicle then? Well, the mechanic told me because the car is SUPPOSED to be as high as it is now. The reason it would be lower if I took out the spacers is because my rear springs are weaker than they should be, and if I got new ones, and took out the spacers, the rear of the car would be the same height as it is now. Does all this make sense?

Also, I'm wondering why my old 70 tires looked fine with my old wheels, but for some reason looked "fat" with my new ones, even though the wheels are the same size. Now, the "fat" issue is resolved with the smaller tires, I'm just not sure if I like all the clearance around the front wheels. Do you think seeing a lot of clearance is okay looking? Why do you think the tires look different on two different wheels of the same size? Maybe it would've been better to get 17x7 wheels with this new size tire, I don't know.

[Ducati]

How many spacers have you stuffed into those springs, anyways? If there are more than one, try taking one out.

Unless you have a good suspension setup, stick with stock size tires. You will get better gas milesge with narrower tires due to less rolling resistance.

If you can see the top of the tire on a Sable, with its flat wheel arch, then the ass-end is sitting high, hence back to the spacer question. How many spacers are you using?

If your dad starved the engine of oil, he almost certainly did some damage. Maybe thats why it is burning a bit of oil.
I am absolutely amazed that people do that. How the hell is a person so absent minded that they allow that to happen? Did he clue into the fact that it was out of oil when it was clattering with dry rockers and ticking valves, and starting to smell like a steel foundry? Your dad mustn't be the most mechanically astute guy.

[GTS Jeff]

hey guy, heres how the tire #s work.

265-60-15

the first number is tire width. iirc (and i never do) it means 265mm.

the second # is for the sidewall height, listed as a percentage of the tire width (the first #). so 70% of 265.

the third number is just inner diameter measured in inches. so u have 15, meaning the tires mount onto 15" wheels.