SAIT - Accounting Oil and Gas Production

[jhfreedom]

Hey guys,

Just wondering what you guys think of the 8-month Accounting Oil and Gas Production program offered in SAIT.

Any of you guys know people in this program? From what I see, the compensation is quite good considering it is only an 8-month program (Supposed to be an intense program but think I can hack it if I put my mind into it)

http://sait.ca/pages/about/publicati...nergy.shtml#T1

*I'll post the link later tonight if the link can't be found*

I just finished talking to the assistant program coordinator and thought it would be a good opportunity to enter the O&G industry.

Because of oil prices rising and I heard that Calgary still is in high demand for these positions. I may be misinformed so please do clarify if that's the case.

I am seriously considering resigning from my job and moving to Calgary should I be accepted in the program but thought I'd ask you guys since I noticed a lot of Beyonders here work in the industry.

Any feedback in regards to the program would be much appreciated.

Thanks very much and have a great day !!!

[Cos]

My aunt is Manager of the Financial group over at PetroBakken and my uncle is the team lead at Cenovus.

I was asking them this exact question last week as my admin assistant has been looking for one of these jobs for almost a year. I hear it is very hard to break into the industry and ConocoPhillips just laid off 200 or so people in their production accountng group (well transferred them to the US or something) so there are lots of people looking.

The living my aunt and uncle have made is amazing, that being said everyone I know who is just starting is having a real pain in the behind.

[Amysicle]

If it's the same intense program that I applied for 5-7 years ago, it's basically the 5 CAPPA courses from 9 am - 5 pm, 5 days a week for 8 months.

http://cappa.basecorp.com/index.aspx?tabid=1

The program itself was really competitive. There were only 25 spots when I applied (with resume and other documents required).
Of the 260 applicants they had that year, they interviewed 50. I only found this out because I got the interview but didn't make the cut to get into the program.
Because of the intensity and limited spaces, they wanted people with accounting experience/education the most because those people did the best in that program since they already had the basic accounting concepts figured out.

I've talked to Production Accountants and people who had their CAPPA certification and it is super difficult to get a production accounting position even if you have years of oil and gas experience and your certification.

Good luck!

[jhfreedom]

Hey guys, thanks for your answers.

So yeah, I have been hearing two different sides of the story.

The coordinator of the program told me that "It is not always easy to determine exactly what it happening with the industry because even the media can misconstrue information. We are also told that there will become a demand for Jr. Production Accounts due to the massive layoffs that had happened over the past 2 years and with any upcoming increase in the Industry there will be cause for rejuvenation of staff".

It just seems weird how on SAIT's employment survey, all the graduating students got jobs.

And I am hearing you guys who know people that directly work in the industry stating that it is extremely difficult to find positions.

My mom has a friend, whose son had taken this course from my knowledge (I believe it had to be this course because this is the only SAIT program that is related to Accounting in the Oil industry if I am correct) and apparently he is making around ~$100,000 per year (Been working for about 4 years).

If anybody knows or has any more information, please pass them along.

I always wanted to live in Calgary. Such a beautiful city compared to our dumpy Edmonton. Vancouver would be nice, but I can't afford to live out there unfortunately...

[Cos]

Originally posted by jhfreedom

It just seems weird how on SAIT's employment survey, all the graduating students got jobs.

Problem with college/university surveys is that they poll people if they have a job AT ALL. WHen I was first looking into my program many moons ago (electrical engineering) if you look at the actual employment data someone got an EE job at Boston Pizza! In actuality it is that he hasnt found a career yet and is a surver. You can bet they use that as a person who has found a job though.

[Amysicle]

Originally posted by jhfreedom
It just seems weird how on SAIT's employment survey, all the graduating students got jobs.

And I am hearing you guys who know people that directly work in the industry stating that it is extremely difficult to find positions.

If you look at the SAIT stats, you'll notice where it breaks out the employment as being training related or non-training related which is kind of vague. The first level of the CAPPA course is a basic introduction to oil and gas. If you've never been in the industry, of course anything you learn in that first course is going to help you in your job working at any oil and gas company even if you aren't working in a Production Accountant position so it's misleading.

The Production Accountant I interviewed had been in the industry for 15 years at the time and indicated that turnover isn't very high in that position. They liked their job but warned me that it's stressful because it's very deadline oriented. My co-worker and his wife had their CAPPA certification for years and he was working as a instrumentation technologist and she was working as a land admin.

[sper17]

I'm a recent graduate of the program, and most of what is said above is true. Its an intense program with a test every second week, and you can't fall behind or you'll never pass the tests. If you get <70%, you aren't eligible for the practicum which is the main reason for taking the day program and paying $14,000. Its really only a 5 month course with a 3 month practicum. There's a huge difference between the 8 month day program, and taking night classes because the industry knows the requirements to get into the fast-track are so high and the students are already screened by SAIT. With the upcoming layoff at Conoco you are going to have a lot of competition to get into the industry.

A word of advice if you do take the program is make sure you're at the top of the class as not all graduates will get practicums (despite what they tell you), and many companies will ask for only the top students to take interviews. There is a big difference in pay in getting hired doing A/R for a few years, or getting an operated PA position. It turned out great for me, but I know of a few students who are still looking for work a year after graduation.

[panojob]

I finished the "fast track" 8 month day program ($14,000 tuition) in April 2010. I got an A average but still did not get a practicum position, without which it is just about impossible to get a job. (I still do not not have a P.A. job.) And because I did not complete the practicum portion of the program, I did not get not get my SAIT certificate and was not included in the Graduate Employment Statistics on the SAIT web site. Actually 5 of 21 who successfully completed all the course work did not get practicums.

If you include us and the non-training related employed person, 6 of 21 did not get what we paid for, a job as a P.A. I also suspect that of the 6 people that the survey was not able to contact, a few were not employed as P.A.'s. So, best case, 15 of 21 (71%), have training related employment, a far cry from the 100% employment rated touted on the web site.

I think production accounting can be a good career, but just do not believe what SAIT tells you about the chances of getting a job in the field, especially after forking over $14,000.

[FraserB]

^ SAIT is terrible for this. They overhype their programs, especially O&G related ones it seems, and then can't deliver.

[cookiemunster]

not sure if this will be of any help to anyone but our company is hiring for an immediate production accountant... we're looking for 3-5 years of experience in the industry working on AB and SK property... feel free to pm me if you want more details

[silvercivicsir]

It's a total scam.. and seriously it's not that competitive. The class will be like 10-15 Russian Women, who memorize all the facts in those stupid Cappa Books.

Also Those Cappa Modules are nothing like the "real Job". Ask any graudate of Cappa if they can tell you how to Calc Alberta Crown royalties, what the royality triggers are, or explain the Inventory formula. ie (solve for production, if given opening Inv, closing Inv, and sales).. They woudln't have a clue.

There is a hudge difference between a PA with a Financial background and one that doesn't. All those people who take the 8 month course at Sait are ones that don't have any accounting knowledge.

I had a manager who worked as a PA for 15 years.. She thought with her vast amount of experience it was time for her to become a Manager/Team lead.. She had no idea what she was doing, and she would Color code her spreadsheets so she knew where to put all the numbers.. You would thinking if a well is doing 10m³ a day, and suddenly it does 1000 the next, the data might be flawed.. Nope just plugged in the total.

Save your 14,000 and to the guy who makes 100K+ after 4 years.. I highly doubt that.. i would guess 70 tops.. maybe 100 after benefits, stock options, but no way 100k gross. That is more then what a CA would make after finishing their audit hours,

[chkolny541]

^^you should always take the "I heard *someone* made 120K after 1 year!" type remarks with a rather large grain of salt. Its usually a gross over-exaggeration.










Unless they are in haskayne, then they will make 300K on their first job easy ...

[sumguy777]

thanks a lot to everyone that actually had a lot of input regarding this course. i was seriously looking into it but i guess it just completely went out the door for me. i dont want to hi jack this thread but are there actually courses where they wont hype up interms of salary, actually able to find a job etc?? i want to attend sait too but if i cant find a job after its like i could have spent that time working full time and not have lost all that money. ya know what i mean?

[GQNammer]

Originally posted by sumguy777
thanks a lot to everyone that actually had a lot of input regarding this course. i was seriously looking into it but i guess it just completely went out the door for me. i dont want to hi jack this thread but are there actually courses where they wont hype up interms of salary, actually able to find a job etc?? i want to attend sait too but if i cant find a job after its like i could have spent that time working full time and not have lost all that money. ya know what i mean?

Don't make your decision based what the institution claims of job availability and starting salary. These numbers are typically skewed so it entices people, like yourself, to register for the courses at that particular school.

[KappaSigma]

You want to get into acct/fin...get a designation.

[panojob]

Originally posted by KappaSigma
You want to get into acct/fin...get a designation.

My point is that I thought that I was getting a PA designation and could work in the field, especially considering the extremely high graduate employment statistical success rate. I am just warning people to not believe the Graduate Employment Statistics on the SAIT web site.

[silvercivicsir]

Haha PA designation ?? sorry that doesn't exist..

Originally posted by panojob



My point is that I thought that I was getting a PA designation and could work in the field, especially considering the extremely high graduate employment statistical success rate. I am just warning people to not believe the Graduate Employment Statistics on the SAIT web site.