Adding oil without changing filter - K20A3

[jhfreedom]

Hey guys,

Hope you guys are enjoying your weekends. I see some of you guys are up in Edmonton already for the 780 UC meet.

I am beating a dead horse here but I am going to post it anyways to see what you guys think. My mechanic told me to just check the oil when the engine is cold in the future.

To be perfectly honest, it's not even something I should agonize about but I got nothing to do right now so why not eh?

So I was filling up the other day and I noticed that my oil is low. I recheck it again to make sure my reading is accurate. I don't trust this reading due to the shape of my dipstick handle, you kind of have to twist it to get it out once you have dipped it back in.

I usually see oil all over the place when I check but I do it during fillups when my engine is at normal operating temperature.

So I just simply drove it for about couple weeks and when I checked it at my mechanic's place, he told me that it was below the "ADD" mark so I added some.

I let it run for a day (Correct me if I am wrong for doing it, but I just did it so that at least the new oil would filter some of the impurities from the previous oil that had been put into the car. And the car was running low on oil) and took it to Honda for an oil change.

I tell the guys at Honda about this and they say that all VTEC motors burn oil so they told me to change it frequently.

I told them that according to Amsoil (5-20 XL Synthetic + Amsoil filter is what I use), an oil change should last anywhere between 10000-15000 MILES. It's roughly been 9000 KM since the last change.

My questions:

1. Is that true that all VTEC motors burn oil? The car does have close to 200,000 KM but the vast majority have been on the highway. I let the car warm up without idling too long (Drive away when RPM gets to around 1100 because that's when the temperature gauge starts to move up a little bit) before I drive. I do hit VTEC or redline it every once in a while to release all the carbon.

2. If the VTEC motors don't burn oil, would running the car with a low amount of oil affect compression ratio on my engine?

3. Is it bad to put oil into a car without changing the filter even when Amsoil filters are supposed to last 15000 Miles)? I didn't have a choice at the time because I was already running low on oil. Was it a right thing to do for me to just add the oil and drive it for a day hoping that the new oil will collect some of the sludge and change it again? Or should I have just kept driving and keep adding oil when it's low?

4. One of the Honda Tech told me that the oil filter was leaking oil, but said it shouldn't have leaked that much. Would this be a main reason why my oil level was low? How does that affect engine performance/maintenance other than losing oil?

5. All the oil changes were done by a Honda Tech. Do you guys think this is worth going after Honda for some sort of in-store credit? I don't have any proof that Honda didn't install the filter properly on the previous oil change...

Sorry about the long post but hope you guys understand. Any constructive criticism is welcome. We had a little bit of rain here in Edmonton but hope tomorrow is perfectly clear for a nice cruise.

[Rat Fink]

.

[A2VR6]

1) It is normal for a VTEC motor to burn a small amount of oil. Its been well documented for example the F20C in the AP1 S2000`s consume a bit of oil and is normal.

In my personal experience my S2000 consumes close to a quart between oil changes (every 10000 kms). As a comparison my RSX-S didnt consume any oil at all. It all depends on the motor it seems, some consume a little bit of oil and others dont. As long as its not a huge amount of oil I would say it would be ok.

2. Running your motor low on oil could damage the rings and bearings and other internals of your motor. Hence why it`s important to check your oil level frequently and top it off ASAP if its low.

3. Change your filter when you do a complete oil change. If you have to top off the oil because of consumption, there is no need to change the filter.

4. A loose oil filter and oil consumption could add up to why your oil level was low. How much oil did you have to addÉ

[Sil80_D]

just follow your car manual in your glove box... it tell's you intervals for oil changes and everything...
and yeah, check your oil on a cold engine, not a hot one.

[Modelexis]

I had a winter car a while ago that burned oil so often, and I had to add oil so often, that i never did any oil changes, once a year I would just unscrew the oil filter from above and screw a fresh one on.

Done and done.

[962 kid]

Originally posted by Sil80_D
just follow your car manual in your glove box... it tell's you intervals for oil changes and everything...
and yeah, check your oil on a cold engine, not a hot one.

Don't follow the amsoil recommendations for intervals. I've literally seen engines destroyed because people decide that amsoil with their magical 15000 mile oil intervals know more than the manufacturers. The OE Honda oil (Idemitsu) is top notch stuff - running amsoil doesn't mean you can skip oil changes.

[RickDaTuner]

Originally posted by 962 kid




Don't follow the amsoil recommendations for intervals. I've literally seen engines destroyed because people decide that amsoil with their magical 15000 mile oil intervals know more than the manufacturers. The OE Honda oil (Idemitsu) is top notch stuff - running amsoil doesn't mean you can skip oil changes.

Double

Oil change intervals are not a matter of oil composition, instead its up to piston ring clearance, piston ring design and cylinder to piston metal composition.

Modern ring technology allows newer cars to go further between changes, but this has more to do with the design and precision of the oil scraping ring, along with the piston ring tension and gap. Its actually pretty amazing how 3-8 metals rings interact in an engine to provide air tight sealing.

[jhfreedom]

Originally posted by Rat Fink


1. Compression ratio is the ratio of uncompressed air/fuel to compressed air/fuel volume in the cylinders. Lets say one of your cylinders has 500 cubic centimeters of volume uncompressed, and only 50 cubic centimeters volume when the piston is at the top of its travel (full compression), that is a compression ratio of 10:1. The amount of oil in the crankcase has NO effect on this.

2. You don't have proof of this, nor does it seem you have the automotive knowledge to have a leg to stand on in arguing this so I really don't think you have a chance at getting anything.

1. I meant to say the compression numbers on the cylinder (When you do the Engine Compression Testing) but that wouldn't affect it anyways. Kindly confirm.

2. I concur.

Originally posted by A2VR6
1. It is normal for a VTEC motor to burn a small amount of oil. Its been well documented for example the F20C in the AP1 S2000`s consume a bit of oil and is normal.

In my personal experience my S2000 consumes close to a quart between oil changes (every 10000 kms). As a comparison my RSX-S didnt consume any oil at all. It all depends on the motor it seems, some consume a little bit of oil and others dont. As long as its not a huge amount of oil I would say it would be ok.

2. A loose oil filter and oil consumption could add up to why your oil level was low. How much oil did you have to addÉ

1. Weird, how many KMs was your Type-S sitting at? Same K20 engine, I would assume the A1s and A2s consume more oil because it's more performance oriented than the A3. At the same time, I could be wrong.

2. I had to add about 2 litres as the level was sitting just below the "ADD" mark.

As far as changing the filters at the right interval goes, how often would you guys change it (Sorry I don't have the manual)? Amsoil "Saids" 15000 Miles...

[slinkie]

Originally posted by jhfreedom


As far as changing the filters at the right interval goes, how often would you guys change it (Sorry I don't have the manual)? Amsoil "Saids" 15000 Miles...

5k km interval

[revelations]

Originally posted by jhfreedom

I told them that according to Amsoil (5-20 XL Synthetic + Amsoil filter is what I use), an oil change should last anywhere between 10000-15000 MILES. It's roughly been 9000 KM since the last change.

My questions:

1. Is that true that all VTEC motors burn oil? The car does have close to 200,000 KM but the vast majority have been on the highway. I let the car warm up without idling too long (Drive away when RPM gets to around 1100 because that's when the temperature gauge starts to move up a little bit) before I drive. I do hit VTEC or redline it every once in a while to release all the carbon.

2. If the VTEC motors don't burn oil, would running the car with a low amount of oil affect compression ratio on my engine?

3. Is it bad to put oil into a car without changing the filter even when Amsoil filters are supposed to last 15000 Miles)? I didn't have a choice at the time because I was already running low on oil. Was it a right thing to do for me to just add the oil and drive it for a day hoping that the new oil will collect some of the sludge and change it again? Or should I have just kept driving and keep adding oil when it's low?

4. One of the Honda Tech told me that the oil filter was leaking oil, but said it shouldn't have leaked that much. Would this be a main reason why my oil level was low? How does that affect engine performance/maintenance other than losing oil?

5. All the oil changes were done by a Honda Tech. Do you guys think this is worth going after Honda for some sort of in-store credit? I don't have any proof that Honda didn't install the filter properly on the previous oil change...

Sorry about the long post but hope you guys understand. Any constructive criticism is welcome. We had a little bit of rain here in Edmonton but hope tomorrow is perfectly clear for a nice cruise.

1. My EP3 has 150,000 kms and burns almost zero oil. I do drive the piss out of it once in a while, but its generally not abused.

2. No

3. No, its not bad.

4. Yes, it could be why your oil was low. If youre adding oil, you are replenishing the detergents that are used up by the oil in keeping it self clean. This is a good thing.

5. I wouldnt bother with them.... unless the filter came off!


Also, with the K20A3 on the EP3, dont run 5w20 oil. Many owners have had problems will spalling on their cam lobes from the oil being too thin. Most run 5w30 now, and I believe Honda changed their specs for the oil to this as well.

I run 5w40 oil, fully synthetic (Rotella T6) and the car engine is much quieter now, as compared to 5w30.

[A2VR6]

Originally posted by jhfreedom


1. Weird, how many KMs was your Type-S sitting at? Same K20 engine, I would assume the A1s and A2s consume more oil because it's more performance oriented than the A3. At the same time, I could be wrong.

2. I had to add about 2 litres as the level was sitting just below the "ADD" mark.

As far as changing the filters at the right interval goes, how often would you guys change it (Sorry I don't have the manual)? Amsoil "Saids" 15000 Miles...

1) My RSX was sitting at 84500 when I sold it. I almost found it weird that it didnt consume any oil as I`ve read countless amount of times where it would be normal for the car to consume a little bit.

2) I`d say keep monitoring the situation closely now that you know the filter is tight. If you have to keep adding 2 litres of oil over a short interval then you may have bigger issues.

Honda reccomends oil and filter changes on the K20 every 8000 km`s. I would follow that.

[jhfreedom]

Originally posted by revelations



1. My EP3 has 150,000 kms and burns almost zero oil. I do drive the piss out of it once in a while, but its generally not abused.

2. Yes, it could be why your oil was low. If youre adding oil, you are replenishing the detergents that are used up by the oil in keeping it self clean. This is a good thing.

3. Also, with the K20A3 on the EP3, dont run 5w20 oil. Many owners have had problems will spalling on their cam lobes from the oil being too thin. Most run 5w30 now, and I believe Honda changed their specs for the oil to this as well.

I run 5w40 oil, fully synthetic (Rotella T6) and the car engine is much quieter now, as compared to 5w30.

1. What would be your definition of driving the piss out of it? I mean, I always keep my revs up to 4000 ish and shift up at around 4500. Just every once in a blue moon, I would rev the snot out of it and hit redline just to entertain myself and release the carbon buildup. Funny how all my friends think I am an aggressive driver because I rev my car so higher compared to them. But it's a Honda... Correct me if I am wrong...

2. So when I added oil, I let it run for another day and a half before I changed it. Is this acceptable or should I have taken it to a dealership right after I finished adding oil into it?

3. You are correct. Honda changed their specs to 5W-30 although it says 5W-20 on the cap. The Honda tech guy suggested that I start using High Mileage oil but I disagreed with him because it's 50% blend synthetic.

4. For daily driving purposes, would Mobil 1 5W-30 do? Or would you guys recommend Castrol Edge Syntec over the Mobil 1? I think Motul/Amsoil oils are a little too much (My Amsoil I picked it up for $25 a jug that's why I have been using them) but let me know what you guys think...

[bmeier]

Originally posted by jhfreedom


1. What would be your definition of driving the piss out of it? I mean, I always keep my revs up to 4000 ish and shift up at around 4500. Just every once in a blue moon, I would rev the snot out of it and hit redline just to entertain myself and release the carbon buildup. Funny how all my friends think I am an aggressive driver because I rev my car so higher compared to them. But it's a Honda... Correct me if I am wrong...

2. So when I added oil, I let it run for another day and a half before I changed it. Is this acceptable or should I have taken it to a dealership right after I finished adding oil into it?

3. You are correct. Honda changed their specs to 5W-30 although it says 5W-20 on the cap. The Honda tech guy suggested that I start using High Mileage oil but I disagreed with him because it's 50% blend synthetic.

4. For daily driving purposes, would Mobil 1 5W-30 do? Or would you guys recommend Castrol Edge Syntec over the Mobil 1? I think Motul/Amsoil oils are a little too much (My Amsoil I picked it up for $25 a jug that's why I have been using them) but let me know what you guys think...

i think you are over thinking this...

all you need to do is keep the oil level topped up.

check oil in the morning before you start your car, if its low add some oil.
change your filter and oil when the manual says too. IMO dont waste your money on special filters or worry about what synthetic oil to run. For daily driving its not going to make a lick of difference besides your wallet being empty...

if you want synthetic runs the cheapest you can find, i like rotella t6 its cheap and very good.

sorry for bad spelling, grammar typing on my phone.

[revelations]

1. Driving the piss out of it means WOT and redline. I do this once every few days, if that. Normally I shift around 3000 rpms - before VTEC kicks in. I'm in no mad rush and I average 30mpg in mixed driving conditions.

2. Thats fine, no need to see a dealership.

3. Dont use high mileage oil, good IV level synthetic is fine.

4. Mobil 1 is sub par as far as synthetics go now as its a Class III I believe. I've used Castrol Syntec before, no complaints.

[manny18]

With a vehicle that high kms you should be changing the oil every 5k or every 3 months if you want it to last...

[crapstixs]

Originally posted by bmeier


i think you are over thinking this...

all you need to do is keep the oil level topped up.

check oil in the morning before you start your car, if its low add some oil.
change your filter and oil when the manual says too. IMO dont waste your money on special filters or worry about what synthetic oil to run. For daily driving its not going to make a lick of difference besides your wallet being empty...

if you want synthetic runs the cheapest you can find, i like rotella t6 its cheap and very good.

sorry for bad spelling, grammar typing on my phone.

cheap filters and oil will crater engines. you would be suprised how many fram filters kill engines. amsoil filters are some of the best you can buy.
any engine that has variable valve timing has to have the oil changed regularly. like 5000km regularly. if too much sludge and varnish build up it will stick cam actuaters and pressure solenoids. thats when it get expensive.