Here we go again.... C63 vs M3

[redline]

Originally posted by Sorath
so i drove the m3 today, and i can definately say that i am not impressed. Not sure why but my 335 felt faster than the m3. It definately felt stiffer than my 335 however i dont know if there was a big difference in handling.

Looks like C63 is the way to go, havent driven it yet though, stood in the showroom of lonestar for half an hour and wasnt helped so i left. The seats in the c63 sure are comfy though.

the M3 is best higher in the RPM band, it really comes alive, on the stiffness, i use comfort mode on the EDC 90% of the time so mine is better then a 335. There is huge difference in handling hard to compare the two.

But there is really no wrong choice out of the two.

I still say that you should look at a ISF also. The 2012 is really improved

[benyl]

The M3 always felt weak to me (E9X). It is simply a powerband problem. Unless you are at the track, torque at 1800 rpm "feels" faster. The M3 is an awesome car for the track.

I always felt my chipped 335 felt as fast off the line as my C63.

If I was in the market for a new car right now, I would be looking at getting the 335is or a 1M. The 2012 C63 P31 is also pretty compelling.

[heavyD]

Originally posted by benyl
The M3 always felt weak to me (E9X). It is simply a powerband problem. Unless you are at the track, torque at 1800 rpm "feels" faster. The M3 is an awesome car for the track.

I always felt my chipped 335 felt as fast off the line as my C63.

If I was in the market for a new car right now, I would be looking at getting the 335is or a 1M. The 2012 C63 P31 is also pretty compelling.

If you want a 1M better get one now as I believe it's just a one year production run and that's it.

[Redlyne_mr2]

Yep 1m is only happening this year then that's it. That actually might be it for the 1 series all together other than x1 of course.

I agree with Sorath, the M3 is an awesome car for the track, it looks great, it handles great, its an M, but in every day street driving for traffic light racing the 335is with the dual clutch is amazing, it also sounds fantastic. Im not sure what they did to the exhaust but it sounds nuts between shifts as it crackles.

[Tuner1]

It is probably a bit unfair of me to post a brief comment and then run away but I am pressed for time at the moment...

Anyway, as the former owner of an E90 335i and an E90 M3 (both bought new from Calgary BMW and then modified to my liking) I have to say that the M3 is a far superior sports sedan - full stop.

The 335 is a great value proposition and is a fantastic street car for 'sporty' driving but the M3 has far greater depth of talent and character.

Leave the inline-six BMWs out of this discussion as the M3 and the C63 are the true rivals to consider. The C63 is an amazing car and I can understand why many Calgarians prefer it over the M3 (think lots of straight roads), although I have yet to see a magazine comparison test that does...


Rob

[dirtsniffer]

What's the manual like in the Mercedes? Or the dual clutch?

[Kg810]

Originally posted by heavyD


If you want a 1M better get one now as I believe it's just a one year production run and that's it.

Originally posted by Redlyne_mr2
Yep 1m is only happening this year then that's it. That actually might be it for the 1 series all together other than x1 of course.

Just want to make a few corrections and I apologize if it's off-topic, but I do want to say that the 1M is getting fantastic reviews and it would be a worthy choice.


This information is from "SCOTT26" who works for BMW and provides teasers/information on BMW projects and future direction.

With that being said, the 1-series is definitely here to stay and the next generation (F20) is already in the process of wrapping up testing and making the official reveal in a couple weeks. This only applies to the hatch release, NA only gets the coupe and cabrio so we have to wait a year.

Here is an render based off a real image of the car:

» Click image for larger version

Nurburgring Testing with M-Sport (which is similar to the way the current 1M front end looks):


» Click image for larger version

As of yesterday, SCOTT26 made a post(click) about the expansion of the 1er (IE - 1-series GT, F.A.S.T, etc) and briefly made a few insider statements on "BMW M-One - Compact Programme." This program is to support individualism and personalization of next entry level Ms (Z2 and 1M) that will be based on the F20 platform.

Here are some snip-its of some of his posts in regards to the 1er M:

"Let's just say that we are not finished with the 1M as yet.
And we have some options on the negotiating table.

Of course there will be a second generation"

"So we have to think about the longetivity of the car in terms of the customer and to increase the car's appeal for future enthusiasts which some younger M entry enthusiasts are more adapt in "personalisation?" . The current car might have an extremely short lifespan but that car will still be around in the future."

SCOTT26 never fails at providing valuable and accurate insider information, so this current E82 1er M is of course ending soon since the next generation 1er (F2X) is being officially released in a week or so. I'd say the F2X 1er M won't be seen until 2014 at the earliest, but with their plan to personalize M cars, they will be offering aftermarket parts so maybe you could potentially make the current 1er M into a 1M "CSL" .

[Khalil.e]

Originally posted by Tuner1
It is probably a bit unfair of me to post a brief comment and then run away but I am pressed for time at the moment...

Anyway, as the former owner of an E90 335i and an E90 M3 (both bought new from Calgary BMW and then modified to my liking) I have to say that the M3 is a far superior sports sedan - full stop.

The 335 is a great value proposition and is a fantastic street car for 'sporty' driving but the M3 has far greater depth of talent and character.

Leave the inline-six BMWs out of this discussion as the M3 and the C63 are the true rivals to consider. The C63 is an amazing car and I can understand why many Calgarians prefer it over the M3 (think lots of straight roads), although I have yet to see a magazine comparison test that does...


Rob

Does the supercharger do much to increase torque down low?

[redline]

Originally posted by Khalil.e


Does the supercharger do much to increase torque down low?

not really, the ESS kit that most people are running is a vortec style supercharger and the 625hp kits still only puts out about 400lbs of torque. still not as much the the c63... no replacement for displacement.

[Tuner1]

Originally posted by Khalil.e


Does the supercharger do much to increase torque down low?

It does increase the torque output starting @ ~1500rpm, but it still doesn't feel like an 8.4L Viper, however an ESS'd M3 will roast the tires in 1st and 2nd gear without effort so how much low-end torque can really been ultilized?

Another reason I chose the M3 was because you can fit proper size tires under the stock fenders. Hell, an M3 will accept larger FRONT tires than you can fit on the REAR of a C63 For those of us looking to maximize the performance envelope of a given car, max tire size is a very important factor. AMG knows this too, hence the big fender flares on the Black Series cars.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[rage2]

Originally posted by Tuner1
Another reason I chose the M3 was because you can fit proper size tires under the stock fenders. Hell, an M3 will accept larger FRONT tires than you can fit on the REAR of a C63

That's probably my biggest complaint with the C63, is the lack of tire. It's enough for a drag race, but severly lacking for any serious cornering work. Fun on the streets, but turns into a drift car pretty quickly at the track.

Originally posted by Sugarphreak
Please... for my own sanity, don't call it a manual

THe correct term is "AMG SPEEDSHIFT 7G-TRONIC"

For 2012 it's the AMG Speedshift MCT. It's a wicked transmission that's somewhere inbetween DSG and SMG.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[Neil4Speed]

A bit of a background on the MCT speedshift - Narrated by someone who may or may not be Satan.

[Tuner1]

Originally posted by rage2
For 2012 it's the AMG Speedshift MCT. It's a wicked transmission that's somewhere inbetween DSG and SMG.

Very cool - I can't wait to try it!

[rage2]

Originally posted by Tuner1
Very cool - I can't wait to try it!

It's already available in last year's SL63 and E63. A few have popped up next door already.

[SilverStreak]

Hmm, lots of moving parts in that tranny, wonder how long it can last. That would be an expensive bill....