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    Default Bikes and cars sharing roadways subject of Vancouver conference, Calgarians can parti

    Hey guys

    This conference is in Vancouver but you can participate online. And it will be webcast.

    http://www.calgarybeacon.com/2011/05...cipate-online/

    Markham

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    hai gaiz,

    The Canadian Automobile Association is inviting drivers, cyclists and experts to its one-day national conference to discuss road use guidelines in Canada. Canadians, including the 5.6 million members of CAA coast-to-coast, are faced with the challenges of bike-car coexistence, whether they are behind the wheel or behind their handlebars.



    The “Changing Lanes” conference will provide a forum for dialogue, focusing on solutions to make the relationship safer and better for all.

    The aim of discussions is to improve road use relations between cyclists and drivers

    “Across the country, communities of all sizes are grappling with infrastructure, education and safety issues as more bikes, cars and transit vehicles co-exist on Canada’s roadways. There is and will be enormous pressure placed on our transportation infrastructure, and Canadian cities need to prepare,” said Jeff Walker, CAA vice president of public affairs.

    “We believe there are important lessons to be learned from experts who work on these issues here in Canada and internationally, and we want to facilitate a conversation about how we move forward together.”

    According to a poll conducted for the CAA by Harris/Decima Research, 33% of Canadians said they would consider switching to a bicycle to commute at least part of the time. However, in the same survey, 55% also said they don’t feel safe biking on Canada’s roads – and that the number one issue for them was the lack of infrastructure to accommodate cyclists.

    “Changing Lanes: Improving the Bike-Car Relationship on Canada’s Roads” will be held next Wednesday, May 25th in Vancouver in cooperation with the British Columbia Automobile Association (BCAA). The conference will be webcast, including a feature to allow out-of-town participants to ask questions.

    Leading national and international speakers including city planners, transportation experts, cycling advocates, and business representatives will discuss the latest thinking on infrastructure, safety and the opportunities and costs for business arising from changing transportation patterns.

    “Our members have clearly told us that this is an issue of concern to them. As we move towards more sustainable forms of transportation, it’s critical to ensure both the services and education people need to travel safely are easily available,” Walker said.

    CAA has long been an advocate for the safety and infrastructure concerns of its members. Several CAA clubs, including BCAA, offer Bike Assist – emergency roadside assistance for bicycle breakdowns – as part of their basic membership package.

    CAA is a federation of nine clubs providing more than 5.6 million members with exceptional emergency roadside service, complete automotive and travel services, member savings and comprehensive insurance services. CAA also advocates on issues of concern to its members, including road safety, the environment, mobility, infrastructure and consumer protection.

    G-ZUS

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    3 suggestions from me.

    A) License bicycles, make them follow the laws of the road, just like a motorcycle or moped has to, and enforce it just as much as motor vehicles.

    or

    2) When there's no bike lanes on the road, allow them to ride on the sidewalk, and keep them off the road.

    or

    C) Put bike lanes on all roads. (this one would be the best, except no one is going to want to pay for it)
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    Originally posted by Tik-Tok
    3 suggestions from me.

    A) License bicycles, make them follow the laws of the road, just like a motorcycle or moped has to, and enforce it just as much as motor vehicles.
    Not realistic except for actual proper commuter bicycles that can reach 50-70 kph with appropriate gearing

    2) When there's no bike lanes on the road, allow them to ride on the sidewalk, and keep them off the road.
    Bikes are allowed on the road, by law. Full stop. (Except where specifically banned by proper and adequate signage (for example, Deerfoot Trail)). Deal with it. Please, however, deal with it safely, as in give us room and understand that we're on bikes because we enjoy them, and would rather not be run off the road. In the same vein, I understand that you, the cager, would like to be on your way as soon as possible, and I try not to inconvenience you as much as possible. Where bike paths are provided, I use them (woefully small amount of paths in this city, tho). If I must ride on the road, I ride as safely as I can towards the rightmost side of the road.

    What there needs to be, honestly, is better education of all road users, riders and cagers alike, on how to properly share the road. Bikers will sometimes ride out a big farther into the road when riding beside parked cars (I know I do), because we don't want to be doored. A car hits a door, there's some insurance talk, some exchange of information. A bike rider hits a door, it's either a trip to the hospital... or the morgue. Keep that in mind when you're stuck behind a bike riding past parked cars.

    Also, keep in mind that unless the rider is on the appropriate type of bike with high speed gearing, the fastest a rider can maintain is around 50 kph if they're absolutely pounding it. Average bike speeds are 20-35 kph on most roads.

    C) Put bike lanes on all roads. (this one would be the best, except no one is going to want to pay for it)
    I would love to see lane sharing and bike laning as much as anyone. On a few roads in Calgary, this is actually implemented and implemented well (19th st NW between Kensington and 5th Ave is glorious for this). However, again, PROPER EDUCATION on the usage needs to be applied.

    This is exemplified by the not so well implemented "bike lanes" on the edges of downtown which are pretty much death traps to any rider in them, as cagers do not ever, EVER, check to see if there's anyone in them before cutting across them to get to their turn. I've actually been hit in the one on 11th? 12th? ave just before 14th St SW, a few years back. Wasn't damaging and all it ended up doing was breaking a pedal on the right side of my bike, but the cager claimed a SMIDSY and drove off without even checking if I was alright :\


    Now that I've presented my opinions on your suggestions, I'll present one of my own that I think would work well:

    Provide adequate bike paths along major routes (for example, a path that runs beside Deerfoot all the way down), and designated the outermost lane, aka right lane, as a shared occupancy lane on other roadways. That means that cars and bikes share the right lane, and only cars and motorized two wheelers in the left for passing or cruising.

    And on roads where it's one lane in either direction, automatically a shared occupancy stature.

    If we had dedicated bus lanes, I would suggest doing what the British do and let motorbikes, pedal bikes, taxis and buses all to use the bus lane, and leave the rest of the road to cagers. And, I would remove the lane splitting bylaw so that lane splitting by motorbikes and pedal bikes was allowed, LEGALLY.

    We CAN share the road, if everyone is patient and understanding of each other. Cagers respect riders, riders respect cagers, and everyone is happy. It'll never happen tho :\ Best I can hope for is dedicated lanes or shared occupancy.
    Last edited by Vagabond142; 05-22-2011 at 02:34 PM.
    Geek

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    I'm pretty sure this argument is far more applicable to Vancouver than Calgary given our weather.

    With that said, I have serious rage for Cyclists on the road and can't be impartial on this topic!

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    All vehicles that use the road should be licensed and insured. Bikes that use major road ways and cause traffic backups are operated by pinheads.
    Last edited by m10-power; 05-22-2011 at 03:07 PM.
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    It would be nice if they just came up with a set of proper rules and enforced them, or at least more strictly enforce the ones already in place.

    It seems that bicyclists think they should be able to move in and out of the pedestrian and vehicular world without really following the rules of either.

    the problem is for both bicyclists and drivers the rules seem to be such a grey area right now.

    my biggest request is that cyclists need to dismount in crosswalks (which they are required to by law but no one enforces it) and not be allowed to ride the sidewalks downtown- too many close calls from douche bags (especially at corners) transitioning from the road to the sidewalk without warning.

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    I'm a little skeptical on the outcomes from an event planned by the CAA regarding bicycles. They have a wonderfully terrible habit of trying to push cyclists off the roads, and seems to think that bikes are only meant for the mountains or city pathways.

    What Calgary needs are what are physically separated bike lanes in key areas. 10 Ave SW is currently an on street cycle route, though most cyclists don't feel totally comfortable on it (as survey in 2006). Using a separated lane, like what Vancouver has installed on Dunsmuir and again on Horny, is the best way to allow cyclists to travel 1) safely and 2) quickly.

    Here is what I proposed for 10th Ave:
    click for larger version
    » Click image for larger version

    It would, however, involve removing all on-street parking on the north side of 10th Ave.

    Other primary bike routes, like 5th ST SW, 10th St NW, 2nd ST NW should get FULLY PAINTED (not separated) bike lanes as well.

    Pathway (multi-use) are NOT the answer. Calgary already has more of these than anywhere else in North America. They are great for casual riding, but not a part of the transportation network.

    On top of this, we need more bike parking, more bike-to-bus offerings, and better communication between cyclists and drivers.

    It's amazing how different biking here in Sweden is - everyone cruises peacefully down roads or on bike lanes. Cars give cyclists tons of room. Kids, adults and even dogs know not to step on to a bike path. Cyclists have their own traffic lights and there are bike racks everywhere (required by law!). Its really nice to ride down the busiest road here, no helmet needed, and feel like you are the same as the guy in the car next to you.

    Of course, the question everyone asks is: who is going to pay for this. About 1.5% of Calgarians cycle to work, or school. So, why not allocate 1.5% of the ROAD (not Parks) budget to bicycle infrastructure. Or we can do what Van. or Montreal do and have a gas tax in the city that goes right back into cycling and walking facilities. Or do what they do in Copenhagen and Amsterdam - just take the roads and parking away - and everyone is happier! When you think about it, the more people that bike, the less people that drive, which makes driving that much easier, while making cycling safer.

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    Originally posted by J-hop
    It would be nice if they just came up with a set of proper rules and enforced them, or at least more strictly enforce the ones already in place.

    It seems that bicyclists think they should be able to move in and out of the pedestrian and vehicular world without really following the rules of either.

    the problem is for both bicyclists and drivers the rules seem to be such a grey area right now.

    my biggest request is that cyclists need to dismount in crosswalks (which they are required to by law but no one enforces it) and not be allowed to ride the sidewalks downtown- too many close calls from douche bags (especially at corners) transitioning from the road to the sidewalk without warning.
    dismounting at a crosswalk actually takes longer and interrupts traffic more than riding across the crosswalk.

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    Originally posted by core_upt

    Pathway (multi-use) are NOT the answer. Calgary already has more of these than anywhere else in North America. They are great for casual riding, but not a part of the transportation network.

    agreed, the multi-use sections of the river pathways are a great example of how horrible multi-use pathways are, riders commuting are very aggressive towards pedestrians on those paths. I haven't been hit yet but both my gfs parents were and her mom ended up with a broken elbow.

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    Originally posted by bmeier


    dismounting at a crosswalk actually takes longer and interrupts traffic more than riding across the crosswalk.
    its for the safety of the pedestrians... if the person wants to ride they can stay in the main roadway

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    For the downtown pathways, riding with courtesy usually works well for me. On clear stretches, I'll get up some speed, but when there are people walking, I'm always cautious, courteous, and use my bell frequently and loudly so that no one is surprised by me going by them.

    However, I have noted that I am one of a very small minority that actually believes in courteous riding. I don't feel that I own the road/path, but I also feel that cagers need to understand that roadways are to be shared.

    And for the love of all that is green and good, if you need to pass a cyclist, DON'T pass them with inches to spare. Technically, ANY vehicle passing ANY other vehicle should leave at MINIMUM three feet (or approximately 1 meter) of space. That's car/car, car/motorbike, car/bicycle, and any mix of those three. Sadly... that isn't really enforced. I've had people in trucks actually gun their engines and swoop by, smacking the back of my helmet with their extended mirrors, on purpose.

    THAT is what I mean when I ask for people to give us room. I'm not asking for an entire road to myself, just please, pass safely and drive safely. That's all we riders want. Just some common courtesy.

    And I will immediately rebut myself by stating that I know, as I said, I am in the minority. Some cyclists are total dickheads and cause multiple issues on the roadways. Some riders haven't been properly educated on road sharing. And there are a select few that go out of their way to BE aggressive and nasty and egotistical, and antagonize cagers.

    That description of Sweden's bikeways by Core-upt sounds like a little slice of heaven to a rider like me
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    Originally posted by J-hop


    its for the safety of the pedestrians... if the person wants to ride they can stay in the main roadway
    cyclists cant win, if you are on the road you are getting run off by cars. if you use the sidewalk you are terrorizing pedestrians....

    i for one use the roads, sidewalks, etc. i am extremely careful around pedestrians and try to be courteous to cars by staying close to the edge. its not ideal but its difficult to use the road solely in calgary because you are literally forced into the curb/parked cars and people have no regard for cyclist.

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    Originally posted by bmeier


    cyclists cant win, if you are on the road you are getting run off by cars. if you use the sidewalk you are terrorizing pedestrians....

    i for one use the roads, sidewalks, etc. i am extremely careful around pedestrians and try to be courteous to cars by staying close to the edge. its not ideal but its difficult to use the road solely in calgary because you are literally forced into the curb/parked cars and people have no regard for cyclist.
    In situations where you need to ride past parked cars, you are perfectly and legally allowed to take primary position in the road to avoid being doored. Of course, you'll earn the instant ire of the ignorant cagers behind you.

    But, I can live with that. Taking primary has saved me from three doorings, at least, with potential for 2 others if I hadn't been paying attention to the road.

    (for those unused to the terminology, "taking primary" is taking the dominant position in the middle of the lane, ie joining the primary traffic flow)
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    well as vagabond has agreed, you and him are part of a small exception. Downtown and on the paths I've come across way more aggressive bikers than courteous ones, and there is no one there to police them so they've effectively ruined it for those who are conscientious riders.

    Not saying drivers are any better but at least they aren't driving down the paths/sidewalks where I'm walking.

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    Living in Vancouver this is a BIG concern to me as a driver.

    The ONLY problem I have is cyclists who think they are cyclists, then pedestrians, then cyclists, then pedestrians.

    You are a cyclist, and as such need to obey the rules of the road, not swap back and forth as you see convenient.

    IE. Red light. cars stop, while cyclists continue to play frogger through the intersection.

    IE. Expecting me to stop to let you cross, when I have the right of way, if you are not off your bike. Yelling, fingering, and in extreme cases kicking my car when I do not.

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    That is something that bugs me as well, DeeK, either as a cyclist or a driver.

    I really, honestly, don't get why other cyclists think that it's okay to jump stop signs or run reds. If anything, it's MORE dangerous for us as cyclists to do so. We have far less protection, doubly so because we aren't mandated to wear leathers or PPE. Also, we don't have the instant speed, if needed, to avoid a collision, whereas a biker can twist the wrist and MAYBE be saved by speed.

    And the same goes for crosswalks. It's not all that hard to do a running mount after you're through the crosswalk. Any bike that is between the legs of an operator and is on a road surface is considered a vehicle, no ifs, ands, or buts. Technically (TECHNICALLY) if one were to hit a bike being ridden across a crosswalk, the rider would be at fault for failing to yield. However, technicalities don't always determine outcomes :\

    Still, on the original point of this thread.... having dedicated lanes for road sharing, or lanes dedicated to either type of vehicle would be my ideal solution. Sadly, Calgary roads, through either ignorance, lack of foresight, or simply not caring, are not built to accommodate bike lane infrastructure, whereas places like Britain, Germany, Sweden, and even in some parts of the US, they are.
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    Originally posted by Vagabond142
    Sadly, Calgary roads, through either ignorance, lack of foresight, or simply not caring, are not built to accommodate bike lane infrastructure, whereas places like Britain, Germany, Sweden, and even in some parts of the US, they are.
    Ah, but they are! Almost every city that has installed physically separated bike lanes has done so by reclaiming existing roads. There are places for them in the city, it just takes the demand of the cycling public, and the balls of the politicians to say that we NEED this NOW. Research has shown that p/s-lanes are what cyclists want and that they are safe and that people who do not ride now would be willing to start IF there was a safer way to do so.

    Roads are closed for construction (i.e. Midtown condos, or the Bow building). Drivers adjust.

    As for saying "it's fine for Vancouver, or other non-winter cities".... Washington, DC gets snow - they have p/s-lanes; Montreal get a shitload of snow, they have LOTS of p/s-lanes; Minneapolis is fucking COLD and SNOWY and they have lanes and one of the highest bike modal shares in North America.

    Make the lanes, people will use them. The more people who ride, the safer it becomes for everyone.... drivers are more aware, cyclists feel like they aren't 'fighting' for the roads or faced to the sidewalk or jumping through lanes; collisions decrease. It's win-win.

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    why inconvenience 98.5% of people for 1.5%?
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    Originally posted by g-m
    why inconvenience 98.5% of people for 1.5%?
    THIS.
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