FORMULA 1 GRAND PRIX DE MONACO 2011 26 - 29 May 2011

[cycosis]

^Buddy was friggin solid haha. That was probably the best race so far this year hands down. Another win for RBR!!!!

[DJ Lazy]

Originally posted by cycosis
^Buddy was friggin solid haha. That was probably the best race so far this year hands down. Another win for RBR!!!!

It was the best race up until lap 72...

[rage2]

Originally posted by DJ Lazy
It was the best race up until lap 72...

That tire change rule is kinda silly, the free pit stop ruined the finale. Would've loved to see what happened when Vettel's tires started to drop off.

[cloud7]

I'll have to disagree with rage2 on his take on the Hamilton attempted overtakes. The onus to make a safe pass rests with the driver doing the passing. If he has to rely on another driver to not turn in on him when the other driver was clearly ahead, then the attempted pass is unsafe.

Was Hamilton at fault for bumping Massa? Yes. Was he at fault for Massa crashing? Absolutely not. I don't know what Massa was doing out there... he took the wrong line before Hamilton got along side. Was Hamilton at fault for the crash with Maldonado? Yup. Hamilton was lucky that the penalty had no net effect on his finishing position. If Hamilton was ahead or even got along side on both incidents, then it would have been different.

Having work done on cars (including changing tires) during the red flag was ridiculous... they will rework this rule I am sure to not allow this to happen unless it is a weather related red flag.

[rage2]

Originally posted by cloud7
I'll have to disagree with rage2 on his take on the Hamilton attempted overtakes. The onus to make a safe pass rests with the driver doing the passing. If he has to rely on another driver to not turn in on him when the other driver was clearly ahead, then the attempted pass is unsafe.

Was Hamilton at fault for bumping Massa? Yes. Was he at fault for Massa crashing? Absolutely not. I don't know what Massa was doing out there... he took the wrong line before Hamilton got along side. Was Hamilton at fault for the crash with Maldonado? Yup. Hamilton was lucky that the penalty had no net effect on his finishing position. If Hamilton was ahead or even got along side on both incidents, then it would have been different.

Having work done on cars (including changing tires) during the red flag was ridiculous... they will rework this rule I am sure to not allow this to happen unless it is a weather related red flag.

How much more along side do you have to be? He was beside Maldonado BEFORE the braking zone. It wasn't even a suicidal divebomb, Maldo just moved 3x on the straight (something Hamilton got penalized for before) and on the 3rd move shoved Hamilton off the road.





Look at where Maldo was aiming. His whole damn car was nearly off the track onto the curbing. You can not close the door like that with someone right alongside you. There'd be no passing otherwise if every driver did that and expected the defending driver to back off.

[Bladeh]

I have to disagree with rage2 on the LH / Massa pass also, more than half of Hamilton's car was over the kerb.

But I do agree on the Maldonado pass, he saw Hamilton and took him out.

[bart]

ALI G - HAHAHAHA



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RteXh2Z_aps

[herragge]

Wow LH.

[buh_buh]

Racial jab at stewards = poor move. Sarcasm or not.
Red flag ruined the race, though Vettel spraying the guard in the face saved it a bit. It should've been an epic finish.

[Mibz]

Originally posted by buh_buh
Racial jab at stewards = poor move.

That comment doesn't hold much weight coming from a chink.

[buh_buh]

Yeah, but I'm not on TV.
I make comments like that all day at work. Minus the sarcasm of course.

[rage2]

Originally posted by Bladeh
I have to disagree with rage2 on the LH / Massa pass also, more than half of Hamilton's car was over the kerb.

Finally got some time to do some screenshots. The reason why Hamilton's car was over the kerb was because Massa forced him there.

Here's a comparison of the Schumacher vs Hamilton pass (successful) compared to the Hamilton vs Massa pass (which resulted in a penalty). The Schumacher vs Rosberg pass was exactly the same as the former, as the defending driver had enough common sense not to turn in and close the door hard causing a collision, so I won't bothering posting that set of shots.













You can see that Hamilton was actually closer to Massa on entry than Schumacher was to Hamilton. Look at the fucked up line that Massa takes on the right at the last minute, vs Hamilton giving up the corner on the left at the same spot. Even if Hamilton wasn't there, Massa would've nailed Webber anyways using that line. But since he was there, Hamilton had nowhere to go but onto the curb. Once the cars where interlocked, that was it, they exited that way.

That's not defending a corner, that's a desperation move to save a position, which backfired on Massa, and unfairly penalized Hamilton.

Not that the penalty really mattered anyways in the grand scheme of things, but it was definately an unfair penalty.

In car of both incidents, watch 'em before the FIA takes 'em down:

[cloud7]

Originally posted by rage2

How much more along side do you have to be? He was beside Maldonado BEFORE the braking zone. It wasn't even a suicidal divebomb, Maldo just moved 3x on the straight (something Hamilton got penalized for before) and on the 3rd move shoved Hamilton off the road.





Look at where Maldo was aiming. His whole damn car was nearly off the track onto the curbing. You can not close the door like that with someone right alongside you. There'd be no passing otherwise if every driver did that and expected the defending driver to back off.

Rage2 - he has to be side-by-side, his nose must be at least even with the car's nose he is trying to pass. Your screenshots do not show that he was ever even with Maldonado. You cannot just run a nose inside the other car. That space is always going to go disappear. The position of the stewards was probably that because Hamilton wasn't beside Maldonado the corner wasn't his to take and he should have backed off... He was relying on the other driver to yield, which in case maldonado did not have to since it's his corner.

[rage2]

Originally posted by cloud7
Rage2 - he has to be side-by-side, his nose must be at least even with the car's nose he is trying to pass. Your screenshots do not show that he was ever even with Maldonado. You cannot just run a nose inside the other car. That space is always going to go disappear. The position of the stewards was probably that because Hamilton wasn't beside Maldonado the corner wasn't his to take and he should have backed off... He was relying on the other driver to yield, which in case maldonado did not have to since it's his corner.

Uhh, no. There'd be zero on track passing if that was the case, especially at Monaco. I dunno where this side by side idea came up, but it's never been the case, and there would be zero passing if that was a rule. It's not.

Even with DRS (an aid to help passing), nobody was getting side by side even with another car into St Devote.

[DJ Lazy]

Originally posted by cloud7


Rage2 - he has to be side-by-side, his nose must be at least even with the car's nose he is trying to pass. Your screenshots do not show that he was ever even with Maldonado. You cannot just run a nose inside the other car. That space is always going to go disappear. The position of the stewards was probably that because Hamilton wasn't beside Maldonado the corner wasn't his to take and he should have backed off... He was relying on the other driver to yield, which in case maldonado did not have to since it's his corner.

Maldonado knew what he was doing... If you watch the in cars rage posted, you can see Maldonado make 2-3 moves to try and cover off Hamilton... You are only allowed 1 move. Hamiltons nose was up next to Maldonados front wheel from what I can see... You can't just turn in on someone when they are there.

[Chris Elyea]

Rage almost had me convinced (although I still think Massa was moving to pass/avoid running into Vettel and not blocking Hamilton). But then Jackie Stewart seemed to agree with me, so....

He believes that drivers like Hamilton should not put themselves in situations where they are at risk of either damaging their cars or getting hauled up for punishment by the stewards.

Speaking about Hamilton's collisions with Massa and Maldonado Stewart told AUTOSPORT: "I think both were questionable - and he was lucky to get off without any front wing damage in the final incident.

"You make your own luck and you create your own situations, but the key is that you should not put yourself in a position where the other driver can retaliate in a fashion that will be negative to you, or will be seen by the stewards as negative.

"You also have to listen to the stewards, because there has been a big improvement in having a driver [on the stewards' panel]. Allan McNish is a very experienced driver so if that is their opinion you have got to go with it."

Jackie Stewart's Autosport interview

[Bladeh]

I've changed my mind about the LH / Massa move, from the overhead shots Lewis got screwed with. (puts back on the Lewis/McLaren cap)

[Mibz]

Jackie's opinion is political, nothing more. If you don't put yourself in risky positions then you're never going to pass anyone.

Can you imagine if Kobayashi never took those same chances in Brazil 2009? It would've been a largely boring race and he probably wouldn't have a driver's seat right now.

Sometimes shit happens. Sometimes little mistakes are made and somebody gets unfairly taken out. That's racing. I'd rather have my favourite car taken out by a mistake a handful of times over the year than watch a godamn procession every weekend for 10 months.

[rage2]

Martin Brundell changed his opinion on the Hamilton penalties post race as well. Undeserved for Maldo, undecided for Massa because di Resta already got penalized for the same thing.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/form...e/13606369.stm

[Chris Elyea]

Originally posted by Mibz
Jackie's opinion is political, nothing more. If you don't put yourself in risky positions then you're never going to pass anyone.

Can you imagine if Kobayashi never took those same chances in Brazil 2009? It would've been a largely boring race and he probably wouldn't have a driver's seat right now.

Sometimes shit happens. Sometimes little mistakes are made and somebody gets unfairly taken out. That's racing. I'd rather have my favourite car taken out by a mistake a handful of times over the year than watch a godamn procession every weekend for 10 months.

My point! LH had a good race, given Perez disrupting Q3 and everything that happened during the race. He didn't need to complain about it.

I started off trying to make a joke by comparing him to MSC, who surprisingly hasn't run into anybody lately.