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    Default Official Canucks 2011-2012 Thread

    I want to preface this by asking for respect in this thread. This means two things:
    1) No talk about the riot. There are a couple of threads for you to voice such opinions.
    2) No anti-Canuck people in here to derail the thread. Most Canuck fans have been good about not being total douches in the Flames thread and I request the same respect returned.

    This will be a long post. If you don't want to read it, then don't.

    Last season was certainly one to remember. Or maybe one to forget. The Canucks were strong enough to get to the final, but showed up intermittently. Part of our inability to win the cup was due to injury, but it also showed some weaknesses in our lineups.

    The difficulty, as I see it, is that Boston is a pretty hard, physical team. Do you tailor next year's team to a team better to compete against Boston (ie: tougher), or better to play against most other NHL teams (ie: more skill).

    And really, I think the answer is that Gillis has to do both. We might very well face Boston again in the finals next year. And even if we faced another team, a tougher team is always a good thing. Then, of course, there is the matter of a bunch of good teams to make it through to get to the finals in the first place.

    Keep the Core

    The majority of the required core is still locked up:
    The Sedins, Kesler, Burrows, Edler, Malhotra, Hamhuis, Luongo.

    There are also other prominent players locked up which I believe to be potential question marks which I will discuss later:
    Hodgson, Samuelsson, Raymond, Ballard, Schneider.

    Resigning

    There are, however, also players who are up for contract renewal:

    Ehrhoff: Had a great regular reason, but didn't have the best playoffs in the world. At -13, he was the worst on the team in that regard. With this said, it was revealled he did have a bum shoulder which may require surgery. I think the Canucks should attempt to re-sign him. Having had the best year of his career, and at only 28, he is going to be worth a fair amount on the free market though and I don't think the Canucks would be willing to sign him unless he takes a discount. He made 3.4 million this past year and is obviously due for a raise. I think a salary of 4.5 million would be good for both parties - even though I realize he could probably get 5 or more on the open market.

    Maxim Lapierre:
    New to the team, I think he did his job very well. People hate to play against him, and he *can* be a little cheap at times. But he plays hard and really scored some clutch goals for us in the playoffs. He made 900k last year and being that he was bounced around and he probably wants to stay with a cup contender, a tiny increase to an even 1 million should be sufficient to keep him here.

    Jannik Hansen:
    Here's a guy that we really want to keep. I have a very difficult time figuring how much he should be paid. Blessed with good speed and a great work ethic, he is someone we should not let walk - and is clearly worth more than the 825k he was paid last year. But how much more remains to be seen. I'd like to see a contract around 1.2 million if he would be willing to take it.

    Chris Higgins:
    Actually played ok for us during the playoffs. I wouldn't mind seeing him back, but not sure how much he will want. He actually took a step back in pay at 1.6 million last year. I think we could snag him for under 2m.... maybe even at the same 1.6m.

    Raffi Torres: Resign him. Yes, he makes some stupid plays sometimes but he *can* score, has scored in the past, and generated great energy for the 3rd line. I think he could be resigned for 1m again, and I'd drop him to the 4th line.

    Kevin Bieksa: Like many Canucks fans, I've flip flopped on Bieksa more than any other player. I loved him initially, then he started sucking really bad. But then he retooled his game and was perhaps our best d-man in the playoffs. There are indications he is happy to stay without a huge raise. 4.25m maybe?

    Sami Salo: Have heard nothing as to whether he intends to play again this season, but says he likes it here. Oft injured, his value is way less than the 3.5m he made recently. When healthy, he is still a very good d-man. And yes, he is injured a lot and *is* slowing down, but still has a good shot and would be a great addition for the right price. I'm slotting him in at 1.5m. I still think he can make more elsewhere.

    Andrew Alberts: Had an off and on season. Maybe more off than anything, but was much better than when first aquired. Big guy with some good hitting ability, but really not the smartest player. Could be useful as a 6th d-man, but depends on how much he wants. I'd keep him around at 1m, but nothing more than that. Not factored into my lineups below.

    Tanner Glass: I liked Tanner in the season at times, but he really didn't come to play in the playoffs. At 525k he comes cheap and could be resigned as a reserve winger only. I did not factor him into my team lineups either.

    Jeff Tambellini: Could also be resigned as a reserve winger. Would be a shame to completely kick him to the curb given his speed and the thought that he just might break out one year.

    The Question Marks

    I think the core of the team is just fine as is. We just need to change up a few of the pieces to compliment the ones we have.

    Let's talk first about the five players that *are* under contract, which I think we should look at potentially moving:
    Hodgson, Samuelsson, Raymond, Ballard, Schneider

    Hodgson: This guy is really slow to develop. And even if he did become the player we wanted, he is more of a 2nd line player rather than a physical 4th line player. We already have Henrik, Kesler, and Malhotra on the top 3 lines so there is really no place for Hodgson - even if he did meet his potential. As such, I think he should be used as trade bait.

    Samuelsson: Canuck fans really don't seem to like this guy. I actually do. Is he good enough for a 2nd line role? Well, with 50 points in only 72 games, I think so. He did make some bad plays sometimes and went cold for stretches, but can still contribute. I could see him staying or going.

    Raymond: I really do like this kid and he has amazing speed, but he simply isn't strong enough to keep puck posession while entering the zone. I think another team would be willing to give him a shot. Like Grabner, he might be "the one that got away" but if the return is right....

    Ballard: Never really fit in, gets paid a lot, and was misused and abused by management. He is a work in progress which might not end up working out - so the consideration of moving him must be explored. The question is: Is he really worth much to another team with a 4.2m salary? Is that too big a question mark to get a reasonable return?

    Schneider: I love this kid. And honestly, if there was a way to offload Luongo to another team and make him our #1 (and save a ton in the process), I would. But the fact is that Luongo is our #1, and either we keep Schneider as a backup, or trade him off to be #1 elsewhere. I think the latter is a much better option. I think the league has now seen what this kid can do, and I think he will get us a reasonable return.

    What we need:

    Only one thing, actually. I think we need a big player to play with the Sedins. One who both has skill, but can also protect them from getting manhandled like in the Boston series. I think Kesler needs at least one better winger. And we need to maintain the best d (on paper anyway) in the league.

    The first two can be solved by bringing in one player. A player like Backes, Doan, Byfuglien, Stewart, Clowe, maybe Hartnell. A player like this could play on both the top or 2nd line. If he gels with the Sedins, then you drop Burrows down to the 2nd to play with Kesler. (They've already proven Chemistry). And if not, Burrows is ok on the 1st, but you don't get the "protection" that would be useful on the 1st. (Although that is better than putting a tough player with the Sedins who can't score or make plays)

    With the cap going up, I think we will have the room to add a player of the calibre I'm hoping for.

    My proposed movement

    Trade Schneider, Raymond, Cody Hodgson and a conditional pick in 2013 to Phoenix for Doan and Labarbera. (Condition based on whether Doan resigns after next year). We give up a lot, but Doan is a talented Canadian player with size, and is used to playing in BC with Kamloops in Jr. hockey. I think he would work well with the Sedins, at a reasonable cap hit.

    Re-sign Higgins, Hansen, Torres, Lapierre, Bieksa, Ehrhoff, Salo.

    Bring in either Montador or Babchuk from the free agent pool for 1.5-2.5m. (Unsure how much Babchuk would sign for). Perhaps Eric Boulton for the 4th line - a big tough guy with limited offensive upside.

    Final Lineups

    Here's what I would like to see:

    FORWARDS
    Sedin ($6.1m) / Sedin ($6.1m) / Doan (4.55$m)
    Samuelsson ($2.5m) / Kesler ($5m) / Burrows ($2m)
    Higgins ($1.6m) / Malhotra ($2.5m) / Hansen ($1.2m)
    Torres ($1m) / Lapierre ($1m) / Oreskovich ($.6m)
    Eric Boulton (UFA) ($0.650m) or Tambellini ($0.500m)

    DEFENSEMEN
    Dan Hamhuis ($4.5m) / Kevin Bieksa ($4.25m)
    Alexander Edler ($3.250m) / Christian Ehrhoff ($4.5m)
    Montador/Babchuk (1.5-2.5m) / Sami Salo ($1.5m)
    Aaron Rome ($0.750m) / Chris Tanev ($0.900m)

    GOALTENDERS
    Roberto Luongo ($5.333m) / Labarbara (UFA) ($1.200m)

    Total Salary: About 63-64m.

    All four forward lines are better than last year. Sedins get a better and tougher winger. Kesler gets to play with Burrows again. Higgins provides the 3rd line with more scoring. Torres improves the 4th line. Defense doesn't change much, except for the rarely used Ballard leaving. Tanev should be good for a 6th/7th role next year. Goaltending stays about the same - paying slightly more for Labarbara (who is a pretty good backup) in favour of getting a return for Schneider.
    Last edited by Kloubek; 06-20-2011 at 03:10 PM.

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    Sorry Kloubek I disagree with your trade ideas. Doan is awesome and a hard worker but he's old and we'd be giving up too much for him. At least get some first rounders back. What if Hodgson learns to play wing?

    I disagree with trading Raymond, yes he had an off year but he is adding muscle and that speed he has makes his line so much better. Plus I love when he plays in Calgary and spanks the Flames.

    I like our lines the way they were, let's try and keep them the same with the exception of one player....


    Roberto Lebrongo. Fuck him and his shitty ass inconsistent goaltending. Let's try and trade him or put him on the waiver wire. Has Pekka Rinne been resigned or is he still RFA? Sign him!

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    Does Vancouver really need to make any big changes? They had a pretty impressive regular season so they have the right mix of players.

    Hand the C off to someone that can provide leadership. Henrik is talented, but it was obvious he didn't have what it takes when his team needed him most. Had he just dropped the gloves and fought just once in game 7, it might've provided the spark the Canucks needed to get back into the game and we wouldn't be here talking about juggling the lines around.

    We see it all the time when Jarome drops the gloves, it pumps the team up. Too bad the Flames don't have enough offensive firepower tho =/
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    Seriously, i hate the guy but Kesler deserves to wear the C. he is a much better leader than either of the sisters.
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    Disagree totally rumeo. Raymond is not as good as this last year would make him seem, Luongo is waaaaay to expensive to move, and something needs to change.

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    Originally posted by kenny
    Does Vancouver really need to make any big changes? They had a pretty impressive regular season so they have the right mix of players.

    Hand the C off to someone that can provide leadership. Henrik is talented, but it was obvious he didn't have what it takes when his team needed him most. Had he just dropped the gloves and fought just once in game 7, it might've provided the spark the Canucks needed to get back into the game and we wouldn't be here talking about juggling the lines around.

    We see it all the time when Jarome drops the gloves, it pumps the team up. Too bad the Flames don't have enough offensive firepower tho =/
    history shows the chance of winning the cup increases greatly by having a Canadian captain
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    Rumeo:

    You are entitled to your opinion for sure, but I am entitled to retort...

    Doan is getting older, yes. But with 60 points in 72 games last season, he is showing no signs of slowing down. Plus, he did that playing with linemates less talented than the Sedins. I think he would be a point-a-game player with them.

    What if Hodgson learns to play wing? Well, he has been used as a centre and still hasn't put his game together. What makes you think that he would even a) be tried on wing, and b) develop any better in that position? As highly touted as Hodgson was, he has failed to impress anyone yet, and his development has not gone as planned.

    Raymond has amazing speed - but besides lack of finish, he just doesn't have the size required to do anything with it. He gets crunched at the blueline over and over again. How he has managed not to have serious injury prior to this final, I'm not sure. And how you think he improves that line, I'm not sure how you come to that conclusion either.

    I do agree that Luongo was/is inconsistent, but he is signed long term without any "outs" for another couple of years if I remember correctly. Good or bad, he is our goalie going forward.

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    Luongo's contract has a couple outs at specific points of the contract. Five years in he can ask for a trade and 7 years in the Canucks can trade him, although I don't see why a trade couldn't happen anytime during the contract if both sides agreed it was time to move on.

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    Well I'm sure both sides could waive their obligations. But how do you approach your #1 goalie and ask him to leave. If he refuses, now he doesn't feel wanted and I can't imagine that would help his performance any.

    Besides that, it produces a horrible PR situation. You just signed him to a long term contract, now you want him to leave. It would make management look horrible.

    No, Luongo is the goalie going forward. It isn't that he can't be spectacular.... he just needs to improve his consistency.

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    Originally posted by SOAB
    Seriously, i hate the guy but Kesler deserves to wear the C. he is a much better leader than either of the sisters.


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    Giving Kesler the captaincy should be a no-brainer as he had a breakout year and showed a lot of maturity.

    The question becomes... Will Henrik give away his captaincy or will that be stripped from him? If stripped, would it hurt his feelings, and subsequently Daniel's?

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    These guys are professionals. I'm sure if it was stripped it would totally suck. But I'm pretty sure Henrik is enough of a team player that he would do whatever it takes to win next year. And if the team (AV really) feels that Kesler should be the one to have it, he will.

    Certainly he is a great candidate.

    The more I think about it, the more I see how it is entirely feasible to obtain a power forward (as it is in today's NHL) for the top line. That would be wicked.

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    Default Re: Official Canucks 2011-2012 Thread

    Originally posted by Kloubek
    Kevin Bieksa: Like many Canucks fans, I've flip flopped on Bieksa more than any other player. I loved him initially, then he started sucking really bad. But then he retooled his game and was perhaps our best d-man in the playoffs. There are indications he is happy to stay without a huge raise. 4.25m maybe?
    Kevin Bieksa signs for 4.6M for 5 years with a NTC.

    http://tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=370169

    Defenceman Kevin Bieksa has agreed to terms on a new five-year, $23 million contract with the Vancouver Canucks.

    The deal will pay the blueliner $4.6 million per season, and also includes a no-trade clause.

    Bieksa was eligible to become an unrestricted free agent on Friday. He just completed a three-year, $11.25 million contract with Vancouver.

    The 30-year-old Bieksa has spent all six of NHL seasons with the Canucks since entering the league in 2005-06.

    He had six goals and 16 points in 66 games for the Canucks this season and worked his way from prime trade candidate last off-season to being one of Vancouver's top defenceman. Bieksa added five goals and five assists in 25 playoff games during Vancouver's run to the Stanley Cup Final.

    Bieksa has 34 goals and 113 assists in 347 career NHL games.

    The native of Grimsby, Ontario was Vancouver's fifth-round pick in the 2001 Draft.

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    Slightly more than I was hoping for, but not unreasonable considering what he probably could have got on the open market.

    Now we wait and see which Kevin Bieksa will show up next season. I actually think he'll be just fine....

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    Not bad. Was expecting higher than 5. Decent value contract if he continues his play from this year.
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    Salo re-signed for 2m/yr, 1 year.

    Higgins re-signed for 1.9m/yr, 2 years.

    Lapierre re-signed for 1m/yr, 2 years.

    So far, Gillis is doing exactly what I expected/wanted. Now to see if he bolsters us with a top six forward.

    Edit: ...except now. Marco Sturm signs with Vancouver. 1 year deal, 2.25m. Not happy with this signing at all.
    Last edited by Kloubek; 07-01-2011 at 02:54 PM.

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    I'm still upset over Christian Ehrhoff leaving the roster... le sigh.

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    This thready might as well be revived now that we are into the season.

    Slow start - but not much slower than last year... where the Canucks ended up with the best record, best goals for, best goals against. #1 or nearly #1 in pretty much every typical stat category. With that in mind, I am not concerned.

    Just had two big wins... an offensive explosion against the Caps, and a blowout win against the Flames. Hopefully the corner has been turned!

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    Great game by the Canucks showing there dominance over the Flames.

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    Bump for Nuck fans.

    Just wondering if there's a situation going on with your goalies? Which one are you going to keep? There must be some firm talking going on between management. That is all.
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