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Thread: If you've got nothing to hide, you've got nothing to fear

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    Default If you've got nothing to hide, you've got nothing to fear

    Ottawa to contract out spying, but who cares? It's only the Internet

    Imagine that, because you're pressed for time, you take a cab to the library. The cab driver is obliged by law to install a device that will monitor where he takes you. While in the cab, you call your friend to talk about your day. The phone company is obliged to track whom you talk to and for how long.

    At the library, you speak to a librarian, who jots down your query, because legally he must. He directs you to a specific shelf, and notes that too; each book you open will be recorded as well. Later, you see a film. The theatre notes which one, as it has to.

    Now imagine that you're that cab driver, phone company or movie theatre. You're a private business, yet you're obliged, in order to avoid a fine or even imprisonment, to store this information about any of your clients (at your own expense) if a peace officer requests that you do so.

    That officer needs only a “preservation demand” for this, and getting one is easy. It doesn't involve a warrant – he just needs to be curious.

    A judge is required if the officer wants to make the company turn over that stored information. However, it's also perfectly legal for a company to hand over their clients' personal information voluntarily. And, of course, requests to do things that are perfectly legal that come from police officers aren't the first requests most of us challenge. The information is right there, anyway, so why not make things easy?

    Finally, the cost of collecting this data is passed along to the people these businesses are spying on. Consider it a surveillance tax.

    Most Canadians would be outraged about this situation, unless someone explained to them that all these actions – the visiting, conversing, research, commerce and movie watching – were conducted on the Internet. Substitute search engines for libraries and cabs, and telecommunications companies for the theatre, and lots of people quiet down.

    We're encouraged to be afraid of the Internet: It will weaken our morals, make us trivial. It will create a generation that possesses information but no knowledge. Oh, wait a second, that last bit was Socrates on the written word.

    The government is set to reintroduce Bill C-51, the deceptively progressive-sounding Investigative Powers for the 21st Century Act, as part of its Dickensian pro-prison omnibus crime bill.

    Among other things (Bill C-51 also could make using a false name on the Internet a crime; likewise, potentially, linking to any website where hate material is posted), the legislation allows the police to demand that telecommunications service providers (TSPs) preserve data on specified users for 21 days, without a warrant.

    The logic behind this is that data can be deleted and therefore this holding period is needed while an order to disclose the data is obtained from a judge (they're also just free to hand it over).

    This is pretty murky: Lots of other kinds of evidence can be destroyed. Drugs can be flushed. And yet there's no pre-warrant state in which the police are allowed to demand that your landlord stand around your house for 21 days, on his own dime, while the police get a warrant, in case you destroy potential evidence they have an inkling might be there.

    Telecom companies and Internet service providers (ISPs) already co-operate with law enforcement in the fight against serious Internet crimes, such as child pornography. They tend to focus on taking down illegal websites – to police what people are putting on the Internet more than what people are watching on the Internet. This approach offers a pretty good balance between our security and our privacy.

    Bill C-51 seems to indicate a shift. It makes accessing our most private data easier by essentially conscripting telecom companies and ISPs into operating more sophisticated version of warrantless wiretaps.
    ......
    http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...rticle2075104/


    People might want to start reading those Terms of Service more carefully in the near future amirite?

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    Big Brother

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    Default Re: If you've got nothing to hide, you've got nothing to fear

    Originally posted by kertejud2

    People might want to start reading those Terms of Service more carefully in the near future amirite?
    Then what.... you decline the terms and you don't get internet access? You don't get to use itunes or software?

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    Default Re: Re: If you've got nothing to hide, you've got nothing to fear

    Originally posted by mr2mike


    Then what.... you decline the terms and you don't get internet access? You don't get to use itunes or software?

    This is the price of freedom.


    We can expect more such extensions of our "freedom" under the Harper government.

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    Default Re: Re: Re: If you've got nothing to hide, you've got nothing to fear

    Originally posted by LollerBrader



    This is the price of freedom.


    We can expect more such extensions of our "freedom" under the Harper government.
    Ummm...ya. Harper is fucking up the whole world.

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    you better read the tos for itunes, you don't want to be part of the next human centipad

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    You do understand that a lot of places already turn over information voluntarily to law enforcement upon request right? If you go to a store and buy something, they can use their security tapes to show where you went and then sync that up with what you bought, how you paid for it and who was with you. If they police ask for that tape and those records, a lot of the time they get it with no warrant.
    See Crank. See Crank Walk. Walk Crank Walk.

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    Originally posted by FraserB
    You do understand that a lot of places already turn over information voluntarily to law enforcement upon request right? If you go to a store and buy something, they can use their security tapes to show where you went and then sync that up with what you bought, how you paid for it and who was with you. If they police ask for that tape and those records, a lot of the time they get it with no warrant.
    The article addressed similar cooperation and explained why the bill in question is different. Perhaps you should give it a closer read.

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    They've been pulling Harper's strings on this forever. IIRC, he promised that he would get it through after being re-elected. A bunch of shady back room dealing came out in the wikileaks cables. Some coverage here:

    http://www.michaelgeist.ca/content/view/5765/125/

    The RIAA and copyright lawsuit trolls, sony, etc, love it because they want to start suing Canadians sharing files and hosting info on how to jailbreak your ps3.

    The 3 letter agencies in the US love it because they already have that kind of access down here, and they abuse it heavily, but they can't snoop across the border so well.

    China loves it because American companies are obligated by law to build in backdoors in both software and hardware to facilitate this ("lawful intercept"), and they've hacked every company that matters, and use these same built-in backdoors (plus their own) to spy as well.

    http://www.forbes.com/2010/02/03/hac...ity-cisco.html

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    Originally posted by dirtsniffer
    you better read the tos for itunes, you don't want to be part of the next human centipad


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    Interesting read.

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