Spanking Children Discussion (Originally Gunmen Open Fire at Bus in Philadelphia)

[anhsicun]

i always thought it was legal to spank ur child with ur bare hands on the butt in canada, as long it doesn't leave bruise and with a reasonable force.


found this online

New guidelines laid down Jan. 30 2004 by the Supreme Court of Canada on the "reasonable" use of force to discipline children:

- Parents will not face criminal charges for "minor" corporal punishment of children aged two through 12.

- Corporal punishment unacceptable for children under two and for teenagers.

- No use of implements other than the open hand, such as rulers or belts.

- No striking of child on face or head.

- Discipline must be for "educational" or "corrective" purposes, not motivated by anger or frustration.

- There must be no lasting bodily harm.

- Punishment must not be "inhuman" or "degrading."

- Corporal punishment in schools is unacceptable. Teachers may restrain students, for example to escort them from classroom, but must not hit them.

Source: Canadian Press

[mucat]

Originally posted by Modelexis


Some wives do require a hit or slap here and there. However, hitting should be at the very bottom of the relationship toolkit.

Wife!!??

I would say human in general. Check out the lemonade stand thread, whoever call for closing down little kid lemonade stand need to be slapped.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[Sasuke_Kensai]

Originally posted by anhsicun

- Corporal punishment unacceptable for children under two and for teenagers.

Has anyone spanked a child under two, or been spanked while they were under two?

Plans are to have kids in the next few years, so looking for some anecdotal evidence. I'm a bit torn from this thread about spanking before the child has a rational mind. I'm not going into this looking to do any spanking, but if it's the best way overall to instill a lesson in a particular situation, then hey it's the best way.

My gf, from her stories, only received punishment once or twice, and even then it was just a stern talking to. She turned out absolutely great, respects everyone and their views, all that good stuff.

On the other hand I was never hit, but got a lot of yelling (not often for punishment, times then weren't that great). I don't know if that's the reason for the following, but I don't like verbal confrontation. I'm more emotionally comfortable with being physically hit than having someone insult my traits/abilities.

Basically, I don't want to traumatize my kids in any way, but I don't want them to turn out as hellions or weenies/doormats.

[Seth1968]

Originally posted by Modelexis


If the big picture turns out that your child has emotional problems as an adult directly related to his punishment as a child this should also be considered.

So the question if I accept your utilitarian argument would be is the immoral action worth taking the chance that It could on one hand produce a positive result in some way, and on the other hand produce a very negative and destructive result.

I would argue that spanking is a short term solution with long term negative effects, kinda like taking drugs to deal with emotional problems. I would also argue that teaching a child consequences without physical force will have very positive long term value lessons and emotional health.

+1

Everything you just wrote has been proven in hundreds of studies.

I don't mean to be confrontational, as there are far worse things happening to kids other than an occasional spanking. However, I emotionally cringe just at the thought of hitting my kid.

http://forum.psychlinks.ca/parenting...our-child.html

[HyperZell]

Originally posted by Modelexis


I would argue that spanking is a short term solution with long term negative effects, kinda like taking drugs to deal with emotional problems. I would also argue that teaching a child consequences without physical force will have very positive long term value lessons and emotional health.

Maybe we can work with this, as it seems relatively bereft of the other bloat in your statements.

How would you argue that? The opposition, of course, would argue that spanking is an effective way of disciplining and teaching children without leaving negative long-term effects if used correctly and in moderation.

For the record, my stance is that spanking is simply one method available to parents - it should not be the only method. Understanding when to use force, reason and even coercion is an important part of parenting. There will be situations when one is more appropriate than the other, and within that there are degree of implementation is also important.

Simply put, it's about knowing what to teach with and when to use it. Spanking is not the only answer, but it IS an answer nonetheless with merit.

[mucat]

Originally posted by Modelexis


If the big picture turns out that your child has emotional problems as an adult directly related to his punishment as a child this should also be considered.

f the big picture turns out that your child has emotional problems as an adult directly related to his LACK OF punishment as a child ...blah blah blah. It is meaningless really one way or the other. It all depends.

[codetrap]

Originally posted by Sasuke_Kensai


Has anyone spanked a child under two, or been spanked while they were under two?

Plans are to have kids in the next few years, so looking for some anecdotal evidence. I'm a bit torn from this thread about spanking before the child has a rational mind. I'm not going into this looking to do any spanking, but if it's the best way overall to instill a lesson in a particular situation, then hey it's the best way.

My gf, from her stories, only received punishment once or twice, and even then it was just a stern talking to. She turned out absolutely great, respects everyone and their views, all that good stuff.

On the other hand I was never hit, but got a lot of yelling (not often for punishment, times then weren't that great). I don't know if that's the reason for the following, but I don't like verbal confrontation. I'm more emotionally comfortable with being physically hit than having someone insult my traits/abilities.

Basically, I don't want to traumatize my kids in any way, but I don't want them to turn out as hellions or weenies/doormats.

My daughter is 3.5 now. I've been able to reason with her pretty much since she was 1.5. I just had to think about things and put them into terms should could understand. I'm also big into object lessons as I don't think she was able to understand abstracts very well. Example, I showed her in a controlled setting the gas fireplace was ouchy because it was hot. I turned it on, and let it run for awhile so it got nice and toasty, then I sat her in my lap and showed her it was hot by holding out her hand to the heat in mine so I could show her.. we then moved a little closer so it was uncomfortably warm, but not hot. She understood and we never had an issue with her touching the glass, even when it's off.

Same with power plugs. I showed her what happens when you put metal into a plug that I specially made for the purpose. Large pop and sizzle with sparks. We've never had to worry about her putting paperclips into plugs. Same with hot water.. I showed her which one was hot and which was cold, then let her put her hand into the water until it warmed up to where she didn't like it. While explaining hot and cold. None of these hurt her in any way, but she understood because the concepts were backed up with physical lessons she could identify with.

We've only had to swat her a couple of times now. Once because she was so wound up and out of control she wasn't responding to normal vocal cues. (swat on the bum to show we were serious) Once for not listening when my wife told her not to play in the dog water over and over and over. (light slap on the fingers). And once a spank on the bum because she slammed the neighbor kid's hand in the door then lied about it. Then she was sent to her room until she could apologize to the neighbor kid. (it was really cute, she was sooooo serious about the apology).

Generally, I've found that using my "daddy voice" works quite well, and then getting her to repeat it back in her own words. "What are you not supposed to do?" etc.. I don't think the swat's do any lasting harm, nor do they hurt her in any way, she's got an inch of diaper on still after all. But it does serve as a method to truly get her attention and keep her focused on what you're telling her.

[Modelexis]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak


So you aren’t concerned that cheating, tricking and offering undesirable ultimatums to young kids isn't going to mess them up more than physical disipline in the long run I take it?

I'd argue that a slap to the bum is simple, understood and direct... kids themselves are very physical when it comes to displaying emotions and expressing themselves. Playing mind games and using advanced physiology on the other hand could lead to a much more mentally messed up and resentful child with skewed views on how the world really works... probably end up trolling forums with elitist fringe ideology or something.

I think it's a valid argument that you can cause severe emotional harm to a child by verbal abuse and manipulation.

I'm not advocating emotional manipulation or physical force. I'm advocating intelligent and rational communication with children and a connection that allows you to understand the underlying reason for their behavior so you can understand and work with them to find a solution rather than using force to get them to merely obey you.

[Modelexis]

Originally posted by codetrap
My daughter is 3.5 now.
We've only had to swat her a couple of times now.

I can understand why this topic so emotionally charged for you, insofar as you have used physical force against a 3 year old girl.

[Modelexis]

Originally posted by HyperZell
Maybe we can work with this, as it seems relatively bereft of the other bloat in your statements.

How would you argue that? The opposition, of course, would argue that spanking is an effective way of disciplining and teaching children without leaving negative long-term effects if used correctly and in moderation.

For the record, my stance is that spanking is simply one method available to parents - it should not be the only method. Understanding when to use force, reason and even coercion is an important part of parenting. There will be situations when one is more appropriate than the other, and within that there are degree of implementation is also important.

Simply put, it's about knowing what to teach with and when to use it. Spanking is not the only answer, but it IS an answer nonetheless with merit.

My point is that it cannot be proved either way, every child is different, especially with a developing brain you have to be very careful when introducing physical force.

For this reason, I would argue it is never worth the risk, even if there is a one in a million chance it could lead to emotional damage.

It's an avoidable risk with a sea of alternatives that don't use force.

[HyperZell]

Originally posted by Modelexis


My point is that it cannot be proved either way, every child is different, especially with a developing brain you have to be very careful when introducing physical force.

For this reason, I would argue it is never worth the risk, even if there is a one in a million chance it could lead to emotional damage.

It's an avoidable risk with a sea of alternatives that don't use force.

Much better.

I understand your stance on this, which is more than enough. The counter-argument would be that the benefits outweigh the negatives (by a lot), but that's not something I want to get into in-depth.



This was much better than the previous 4 pages.

[HiTempguy1]

Originally posted by Modelexis
[B
It's an avoidable risk with a sea of alternatives that don't use force. [/B]

Do you, or do you not have kids?

[SOAB]

i can't believe you all keep getting suckered into a debate against this kid that is basing his opinion on theory, instead of experience.

he has no kids, yet judges those that do. his opinion shouldn't even matter. people without kids have no idea what it's like and basically just talk out of their ass.

[mucat]

Originally posted by Modelexis

It's an avoidable risk with a sea of alternatives that don't use force.

No parent will say that.

[Sasuke_Kensai]

^Taking it too literally?

There are countless ways to deal with any situation, though they will boil down to just a few base methods. If that's what you mean.

[mucat]

Originally posted by Sasuke_Kensai
^Taking it too literally?

There are countless ways to deal with any situation, though they will boil down to just a few base methods. If that's what you mean.

When it comes to your own kids, there are only limited ways. For younger kids, it is probably best to distract them with something, because you cannot really reason with them. But when they become older and can be reason with, it is always best to explain to them why you don't allow them to do certain things.

"sea of alternatives" means a lot. And as a parent of 2, i never have a lot of ways to deal with my owns.

BTW, "countless ways to deal with any situation", but usually, there are only a few of them are the correct methods. With your own kids, you want the right methods.

[hampstor]

FOLLOW THESE 14 SIMPLE TESTS TO SEE IF YOU’RE REALLY READY TO HAVE CHILDREN

....

Test 2 - Knowledge

Find a couple who are already parents and berate them about their methods of discipline, lack of patience, appallingly low tolerance levels and how they have allowed their children to run wild. Suggest ways in which
they might improve their child's sleeping habits, toilet training, table manners and overall behavior.

Enjoy it. It will be the last time in your life that you will have all the answers.

http://forums.beyond.ca/showthread.p...hreadid=274235

[desi112]

a tap on the ass is enough to scare a child.

Who ever says spanking is wrong is a fucking retard.

[HyperZell]

Originally posted by desi112
a tap on the ass is enough to scare a child.

Who ever says spanking is wrong is a fucking retard.

desi112, meet Modelexis.