SUV/Truck Tires and Winter

[msommers]

I'm looking at a few tires for the winter here and have more or less narrowed them down to two albeit I'm accepting any other suggestions. Driving involves approx. 80% highway, 20% gravel/dirt/offroad (lease roads). I have a pair of stock tires now that have a decent amount of tread on them but will only be good for the summer, are not strong enough for any offroading and likely dismal in muddy situations.

1) Goodyear Duratrac
- Adequate for all year
- Could get studs put in for the winter to increase ice traction and taken out for the remainder of the year

- Not a dedicated snow/ice tire

2) Nokian Hakkapeliitta LT
- Dedicated winter tire, can use the other set for summer
- Might not even need to bother with studs

- Could have accelerated wear on the lease roads

Both are E-class, 10ply which means that they will be tough enough for any offroad use and towing later if I do any. Road noise isn't much of a concern for me. Price between the two is negligible. They are both studdable.

A bit of research led me here. This quote really stuck out to me:

Recently, a new class of FOUR season tire has appeared. These tires from Nokian, Yokohama and Hankook, to name three brands, carry the mountain and snowflake logo, but their manufacturers also recommend them for summer use. They are marketed as All-Weather tires. From what the APA has seen, these tires use a hybrid tread that manages to meet the winter tire traction requirement in snow, combined with the harder compound more typical of a conventional all-season tire. The compromise? Ice traction is not covered by the snow tire standard, an unfortunate ommission that should have been corrected

Later in that article, they mentioned the Nokian WRG2 SUV which is an all-weather tire that they report performed better than some dedicated winter tires. (1) I'm not quite convinced as they don't specify what tires it beat and how much better it was and (2) I need to look further if they are strong enough for any lease road driving as most conventional winter tire are so soft I suspect the lugs may get torn off/shreaded.

I had also read somewhere that studs below certain temperatures were less effective than studless tires because of the way the compound works. This was on a random forum though so who knows what the legitimacy behind it is.

After all this rambling, does anyone have any feedback or suggestions? Opinions if you've ran either of these tires in the winter and the type of driving you do would be appreciated.

[Cos]

All I can say is that I have been underwhelmed with my winters on my truck. I am not noticing much of a difference between them at a good set of AT's.

Next time I will get a set of good AT's and keep my MT's for the summer. I think the 80/20 weight bias is more of a hindrance in a truck then the tires ever were.

[projekz]

Good Year Duratracs get my vote. I'm running them on my Jeep right now and I'm really impressed so far. Had a chance to play with them in the snow and on some ice and it's a really good tire all around.

[Mibz]

Originally posted by Cos
All I can say is that I have been underwhelmed with my winters on my truck. I am not noticing much of a difference between them at a good set of AT's.

Next time I will get a set of good AT's and keep my MT's for the summer. I think the 80/20 weight bias is more of a hindrance in a truck then the tires ever were.

Which winters did you get?

[Cos]

Originally posted by Mibz
Which winters did you get?

Toyo Observe G-02 Plus

[heavyfuel]

Originally posted by Cos
All I can say is that I have been underwhelmed with my winters on my truck. I am not noticing much of a difference between them at a good set of AT's.

Next time I will get a set of good AT's and keep my MT's for the summer. I think the 80/20 weight bias is more of a hindrance in a truck then the tires ever were.

That's exactly how I feel about it, and what I did. I ran stock size 10 ply Blizzak W965's last winter, excellent winter tire but no so overwhelmingly awesomer than the 33" BFG AT's that I ran 2 winters ago. Now I'm on 35" Pro-Comp Xtreme AT's.

[ramminghard]

I have yokohama geolander AT/S 2+ on my suv and they have been excellent in all conditions. May be worth considering.

[FraserB]

Duratracs are going to be the best bet. The Nokians are going to be crap on a lease road.

If you do stud the Duratracs you will need a second set of tires for summer since you cant remove and replace studs. Or you can drive with the studs in summer as it is not illegal in Alberta.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[Darell_n]

I love Nokians on my car, but they make the worst heavy duty truck tire imaginable. My company bought 18 sets last winter and they were all removed early or unevenly wore off in less than 20000 km. Felt like the sidewalls were made from wet cardboard while on the highway. We replaced them with Goodyear Wrangler something-or-another's (10 ply winter rated) and everyone is extremely happy with them including myself. The Wranglers were part of the 4 for 3 sale at Fountain Tire.

[msommers]

Thanks for the responses and suggestions, some good food for thought and more research to be done...

Fraser, are the Nokians not going to perform very well because the compound is too soft? I'm just wondering, if anyone knows specifically without me phoning the manufacturer, how much the compound varies between all the winter 4x4 variants? I figured the LT version would be the stiffest between all of them especially at 10ply.

Nick, I have a 2010 4runner but it's sidewall durability I'm concerned about most and puncture resistance.

Darell, what Nokians were you guys running specifically? I'm really surprised by that but with so many pairs it's not just an outlier. Was the Wrangler a Silent-Armor or Duratrac? Between those two I've heard more positive reviews for the Duratrac in the winter. Even then some praise them to no end in the winter and others say they're awesome in the summer/mud but when winter rolls around they aren't really that great.

[Darell_n]

It is the Silent Armour we are using now. The Nokians were Vatiiva AT and looked like this for the first week until random lugs started wearing and causing the wheels to shake:



Edit: I think these were from a few winters ago. All the fleet tires are bought at random times as needed and installed by different shops.

[Sugarphreak]

...

[FraserB]

Originally posted by msommers

Fraser, are the Nokians not going to perform very well because the compound is too soft? I'm just wondering, if anyone knows specifically without me phoning the manufacturer, how much the compound varies between all the winter 4x4 variants? I figured the LT version would be the stiffest between all of them especially at 10ply.

Its the tread pattern. The Duratrac has a nice beefy pattern to it so it will grip and self clean in mud and snow. Any mud in the Nokians will turn it into a slick. I have found the worst thing for tire traction is when mud and snow mix together and it just turns to pudding.

I run BFG KM2 MTs in the summer/spring/fall and BFG ATs in the winter. For a truck going to the rigs I would steer clear of the BFG AT though, I only use them in the city and only use the MTs offroad.

[msommers]

Originally posted by Sugarphreak
Maybe something like the Toyo Observe is up your ally then... dedicated commercial winters w/ thick 3p side walls for HD applications and an E-load rating.

http://www.toyotires.ca/index.php?q=...n-country-wlt1

http://www.toyotires.ca/sites/defaul...e/WinterLT.pdf


Reviews/Price @ 1010tires
http://www.1010tires.com/Tires/Revie...n+Country+WLT1

That tire actually led me to this forum:
http://www.snowandmud.com/forum/f77/...ter-54259.html

All AB boys and seem to love the Duratracs. Maybe that is the way to go. The tires you suggested have gotten good reviews as well though. Bah!

I'm not sure how much mud we'll be getting this winter, supposed to be a pretty bad one - fuckin' La Nina.

[sxtasy]

I just put a set of studded Hankook Ipike RW11's on my 2wd 3/4 ton. So far very impressed, I haul heavy loads to hard to access offroad types sites, and so far they have been great. I was a little reluctant to stud them, but glad I did, I can hardly hear them with my window rolled down and dry handling is not much worse than my michelin ltx set

[Sugarphreak]

...

[benyl]

Originally posted by Cos


Toyo Observe G-02 Plus

My Blizzaks make a night and day difference from the POS ATRs that my truck came with. With the ATRs, I regularly had to put it into 4x4 in order to leave a light. The Blizzaks hardly ever needed 4x4.

I think I might mod my truck with the Raptor 4x4 switch and diff control so I can use the E-loc without going into 4x4.

[msommers]

Toyo M55's seem a little beefier but not sure what is overkill or not when dealing with gravel roads.

[sillysod]

Originally posted by Darell_n
It is the Silent Armour we are using now. The Nokians were Vatiiva AT and looked like this for the first week until random lugs started wearing and causing the wheels to shake:

Same tires on a couple of our vehicles.

great for the 1st winter, but by mid summer they were all wearing horribly and making noise. Bunch got cupped so I sent the vehicles in for an alignment, but turned out they were all ok.

Replaced those tires and been problem free since.

Nokian makes wicked car tires, but their SUV/Truck tires leave a lot to be desired.